Strike Vote Called For at NetJets

[FamilyGuy]

Originally Posted by sikntired
They also run the risk of losing their licenses, or medicals, at any time, along with the possiblity of creating a black, smoking hole with Mr. & Mrs. Thurston Howell III onboard. If you have an accident at work it's probably from tripping on the carpet, and you're not going to die.


That's a bit condescending, isn't it?

Yes, it is. The shame of it all is that he was responding to h25b, who appears to be a fellow pilot....

 

[h25b]

I don't know why you're so dang touchy....YOU haven't been waiting for over 3 years for a contract that is commensurate with the duties performed for the biggest fat cats in the US.

Wasn't touchy at all until certain members started threatening other industry pilots...

The current CBA was implemented back in 1998 when there were fewer than 500 pilots. Let's see....the pilots should have had a new contract in 2001, and they would now be working under another new contract as of 2004. Am I wrong? I'm sure someone will clarify my dates, but you get the gist of it.

You don't think you're the only pilots in the industry that have/are working under an expired labor agreement do you ??? This is nothing new. This is why I prefer the non-union method of going straight to the boss and hashing out my worth at least once a year. A much more efficient method of labor negotiations.

If you're wondering why Netjets pilots are acting a "little out of sorts", it's because THEY'VE HAD IT. Unfortunately, something very creepy happened under the old MEC's leadership....

"a little out of sorts" I don't mind, in fact I get "a little out of sorts" daily... Shouldn't you be concentrating that hatred towards the company or your past representation ???

I think that this thread started as a "heads up folks". The Netjets pilots are represented by new leadership and they're willing to do whatever it takes (legally) to bring this contract battle to a conclusion. I'm not sure why you seem to want "specifics" from the pilots, and you're getting all smarmy about it.

Thanks, you just confirmed my suspicions. Your willing to do whatever it takes (including trying to screw anyone else in the industry) to get what you should've demanded BEFORE EVER WALKING IN TO THE DOOR in the first place. If you can't understand why this is p&ss(ng off just about all non-frax pilots it's too late for me to explain it to you now...

If you're all worried about your job, then how do you think the pilots feel? Maybe you're OK with the wages that you earn....maybe they're proportionate to the kind of work that you do.

You got that one right at least. Yes, I am very happy with the wages I earn but it took me several years and moving my family half-way across the country twice to get where I am at. And yes, they are VERY porportionate to the work that I do.

Yeah, yeah, I know..."they knew what the pay was when they took the job". Weeeellll, they were also told that a new contract was "just around the corner", and it would have significant increases which would make living away from their families for half of the year less stressful.

You better quiet down, it's embarassing... Your admitting publically that you fell victim to one of the most common lies ("CHECKS IN THE MAIL...")... You don't go to work somewhere on the hopes the pay will at some point double in the near future. Gee Whiz !!! That's lame.

A lot of the NetJets pilots brag about the 7 ON / 7 OFF schedule. I have always thought it would suck. But at least you know your days off in advance. And yes, pilots tend to perform their duties AWAY from home. I have yet to find a job flying a jet that takes off, circles around town, and lands back at home.

They also run the risk of losing their licenses, or medicals, at any time, along with the possiblity of creating a black, smoking hole with Mr. & Mrs. Thurston Howell III onboard. If you have an accident at work it's probably from tripping on the carpet, and you're not going to die.

This is nothing different from any other corporate pilot and why I have things like trust funds, loss of medical insurance, etc... As for the accidents at work, well I am a professional pilot (just like your bubby) and mitigate this concern by running my small little department strictly according to industry standards of standardization, safety, training, and security. Oh, I almost forgot, and COMPENSATION... If someone came to me and said that he'd come to work for us for $27,000/yr. I'd refer them over to the local flight school for a CFI job.

The Definition Of Insanity: Doing things the same old way, but expecting different results.

So true...

P.S. - I'll gladly shut up when people stop asking me questions.

 

[sikntired]

Yes, I was condescending and it was uncalled for....my apologies. It's easy to get off course in a discussion on a message board.

Clearly, this is a very important issue to ALL involved. There are two sides to every story. Actually, I am not a pilot, but DO have a dog in this fight. (I'm married to him!)

I would like to extend a "peace flag" to all of the Bridgeway employees. Obviously, the contract battle is frightening to you, as well as the pilots. I don't believe that the pilots look at you as "the enemy". Seriously, y'all work together to do what Netjets is founded upon, which is supplying primo transportation in the safest, most efficient manner to Daddy Warbucks and his family. Everyone is important and needed. Everybody wants to see Netjets prosper and grow, but the pilots don't want their labor to finance *other* divisions of Netjets at their expense. There is something fishy going on and they just want to get to the source.

I think that everyone needs to chill out and take a look at the common denominator here.....MANAGEMENT. You get your information from them....the pilots get another version. After having been bamboozled by the previous MEC, the pilots are in no mood to blindly "trust" anybody. The new MEC knows this (they were blindsided before as well), and are working tirelessly to "do the right thing" for the pilots AND the company. The pilots believe that there IS a solution to everybody's problem, and management is either too arrogant, or egotistical to face the facts and potential solutions.

I highly doubt that anybody wants Netjets to crash & burn, but, after years of feeling like the "red-headed step children", they are standing up for themselves.

The company knows what it would take to clear this up immediately. I do not believe that the pilots can or will just shrink back and "take it" any longer. What they're asking for isn't outlandish, and is a normal cost of doing business. Management has chosen to use it's employees in a "divide & conquer" battle plan, and unfortunately, it looks like it's working. I believe that the pilots and their supporters (like me), are just trying to counteract their mis-information. It's just getting too personal though. The company's latest "offer" was regressive, at best. I don't think that you were given ALL of the information concerning that offer. It was just another move in this game of chess that they're playing, and really, the pilots and CMH employees are all pawns in that game.

I'll back out of this discussion, unless I just can't keep myself from responding to some dang thing. (It is addicting, isn't it?!)

One more time....The Pilots are NOT the enemy.
Best wishes to all.

I'm still sikntired

 

[Viffer]

It amazes me how so many frax (NJ) people here refer to the people they fly as 'fatcats', 'daddy warbucks', and various other terms, and also of the hate towards your own company and divisions. Do you all really feel so put off by those you fly? You are pilots, and anyone who owns, charters, or owns shares of private jets is going to be very well off. That is a fact of life. None of them owe you a thing. You really need to get the big picture here. Even with complaining about divisions of your company. It's the same company, and if you would start to see it as one side robbing another side you guys need an education on business. You guys took a job under certain KNOWN conditions, and you need to accept those conditions and live with it without getting the rest of your company divisions against you, as well as the rest of the outside world. Betting your livelihood and future on a promise is stupid, and we all have had the chance to look for something real and concrete to take as a job. It is also a path to colapse to start to look at your customers with envy, and anger or rather jealousy. You are there to serve them regardless of how many millions they put in their pocket. That's their business, not mine or yours. This attitude is why right now I would never hire a NJ pilot. I work for some very wealthy people, and they are entitled to the best we can possibly offer no matter what my salary is, because I ACCEPTED that position. As did all of you. With all the hate about being 'lied to', about management jacking the pilots over, and what else, you all need to figure out where it's coming from. Are those ligitimate issues? Right now I'm sure they are, but they all came from YOU in the first place, and most of that anger is probably coming from you all realising that you made a big mistake in believing what you heard, and taking those jobs blindly on interview day. If you can't accept that then you are destined to fail since you will never be able to be happy at NJ again. Or most likely anywhere else.

 

[FredGarvin]

I would like to extend a "peace flag" to all of the Bridgeway employees. Obviously, the contract battle is frightening to you, as well as the pilots. I don't believe that the pilots look at you as "the enemy". Seriously, y'all work together to do what Netjets is founded upon, which is supplying primo transportation in the safest, most efficient manner to Daddy Warbucks and his family. Everyone is important and needed. Everybody wants to see Netjets prosper and grow, but the pilots don't want their labor to finance *other* divisions of Netjets at their expense. There is something fishy going on and they just want to get to the source.

One more time....The Pilots are NOT the enemy.

I wish that were the case.

Because I work at Bridgeway and I'm not seeing it exactly as the crews do, I have been refered to as; "screenreader", "dumbass", "clueless fool", "some stoogge in CMH", because I "don't know crap" and I work in "Fort Fumble".

The pilots are burning alot of bridges on their way to the promised land. I sure hope it's all worth it.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Yes, I was condescending and it was uncalled for....my apologies. It's easy to get off course in a discussion on a message board.

Clearly, this is a very important issue to ALL involved. There are two sides to every story. Actually, I am not a pilot, but DO have a dog in this fight. (I'm married to him!)

I would like to extend a "peace flag" to all of the Bridgeway employees. Obviously, the contract battle is frightening to you, as well as the pilots. I don't believe that the pilots look at you as "the enemy". Seriously, y'all work together to do what Netjets is founded upon, which is supplying primo transportation in the safest, most efficient manner to Daddy Warbucks and his family. Everyone is important and needed. Everybody wants to see Netjets prosper and grow, but the pilots don't want their labor to finance *other* divisions of Netjets at their expense. There is something fishy going on and they just want to get to the source.

I think that everyone needs to chill out and take a look at the common denominator here.....MANAGEMENT. You get your information from them....the pilots get another version. After having been bamboozled by the previous MEC, the pilots are in no mood to blindly "trust" anybody. The new MEC knows this (they were blindsided before as well), and are working tirelessly to "do the right thing" for the pilots AND the company. The pilots believe that there IS a solution to everybody's problem, and management is either too arrogant, or egotistical to face the facts and potential solutions.

With all due respect sikntired (aka netjetwife) myself and most of the other employees in the casino are not scared (annoyed and frustrated with this incessant bickering, yes, but not scared) because the company has promised us that they will not lay us off....and they have a proven track record of coming through on those types of promises.

And as Fred Garvin noted earlier, the pilots are the only dog in this fight that is biting bystanders. We've been ridiculed, mocked, looked down upon, and insulted. Has managment done any of this to us? NO. Knowing this, it shouldnt be any big surprise who the non-pilot employees will side with.

You should also know that everyone here agrees that the pilots should get a raise, but the way they are going about it is disgraceful.

I'm sorry the pilots feel they were 'bamboozled' by the old MEC. But they shouldnt let that anger taint their current negotiations with the company.

You state there is 'something fishy going on and the pilots just want to get to the source'. If you're that paranoid and chock full of conspiracy theories then we really are in trouble on this. If you want to 'get to the bottom of it' why dont you have a third party examine the books like the company has offered?

Management has chosen to use it's employees in a "divide & conquer" battle plan, and unfortunately, it looks like it's working. I believe that the pilots and their supporters (like me), are just trying to counteract their mis-information. It's just getting too personal though. The company's latest "offer" was regressive, at best. I don't think that you were given ALL of the information concerning that offer. It was just another move in this game of chess that they're playing, and really, the pilots and CMH employees are all pawns in that game.

WRONG. The UNION was the first group to start trying to involve other employee groups when they started handing out their 'educational' materials at a company meeting.

The UNION was the first group to take this fight public when they picketed at Berkshire's annual meeting in Omaha and bought billboards in CMH and TEB.

Management had left us out of it and we were content to sit on the sidelines. Now when Management publishes a rebuttal to the union propaganda then you accuse them of using the employees in a "divide & conquer" battle plan????

 

[FamilyGuy]

It amazes me how so many frax (NJ) people here refer to the people they fly as 'fatcats', 'daddy warbucks', and various other terms, and also of the hate towards your own company and divisions. Do you all really feel so put off by those you fly? You are pilots, and anyone who owns, charters, or owns shares of private jets is going to be very well off. That is a fact of life. None of them owe you a thing. You really need to get the big picture here. .

Well said Viffer. I've been appalled at some of the terms people have used when referring to our owners. If I was an owner and saw how much I was appreciated I'd leave and find another provider that actually valued my presence.

Even with complaining about divisions of your company. It's the same company, and if you would start to see it as one side robbing another side you guys need an education on business. .

Another great observation. It amazes me that many of the people posting on this board have lost sight of the need to reinvest in the business and build up other areas of the company.

I've seen a lot of people lamenting the fact that NetJets has been pouring money into Europe to develop the program over there, but they lose sight of the fact that having a worldwide presence will be very important down the road as we try to sell more shares. If we are the only fractional that can go anywhere in the world then it is even more likely that new buyers will choose us.

The worst thing we could do is rest on our laurels and say 'The US program is profitable, so lets stop there'.

 

[Elevator 2]

With all due respect sikntired (aka netjetwife) myself and most of the other employees in the casino are not scared (annoyed and frustrated with this incessant bickering, yes, but not scared) because the company has promised us that they will not lay us off....and they have a proven track record of coming through on those types of promises.

And as Fred Garvin noted earlier, the pilots are the only dog in this fight that is biting bystanders. We've been ridiculed, mocked, looked down upon, and insulted. Has managment done any of this to us? NO. Knowing this, it shouldnt be any big surprise who the non-pilot employees will side with.

You should also know that everyone here agrees that the pilots should get a raise, but the way they are going about it is disgraceful.

I'm sorry the pilots feel they were 'bamboozled' by the old MEC. But they shouldnt let that anger taint their current negotiations with the company.

You state there is 'something fishy going on and the pilots just want to get to the source'. If you're that paranoid and chock full of conspiracy theories then we really are in trouble on this. If you want to 'get to the bottom of it' why dont you have a third party examine the books like the company has offered?




WRONG. The UNION was the first group to start trying to involve other employee groups when they started handing out their 'educational' materials at a company meeting.

The UNION was the first group to take this fight public when they picketed at Berkshire's annual meeting in Omaha and bought billboards in CMH and TEB.

Management had left us out of it and we were content to sit on the sidelines. Now when Management publishes a rebuttal to the union propaganda then you accuse them of using the employees in a "divide & conquer" battle plan????

And the drama continues.... welcome to the dollhouse.

 

[netjetwife]

Please give credit where credit is due.

Sikntired is a personal friend, a member of our online support group. I've tried to tell the members of this board that there are other NetJet wives out there that have opinions, much like my own, and are following the contract as closely as I do. I thought it was a good summary for those that might be jumping in the middle of the debate. She gave an honest look at a frustrating situation.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Man, FamilyGuy!!!!!!....talk about a company plant.....jigs up buddy!

 

[TurboJetCpt]

OF COURSE FamilyDork is management. This has been apparent for a very long time. So transparent.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Man, FamilyGuy!!!!!!....talk about a company plant.....jigs up buddy!

Like I said earlier, believe all the conspiracy theories you want. You label anyone that doesnt buy your line or that points out the holes in your theorys as a company plant. If that makes you sleep better at night then so be it....but it doesnt change the facts, which I'm still waiting for someone to explain.

run along now, union trolls...

 

[Elevator 2]

Like I said earlier, believe all the conspiracy theories you want. You label anyone that doesnt buy your line or that points out the holes in your theorys as a company plant. If that makes you sleep better at night then so be it....but it doesnt change the facts, which I'm still waiting for someone to explain.

run along now, union trolls...

And the drama continues.... welcome to the dollhouse.

 

[been-there]

because the company has promised us that they will not lay us off...

The company has made many promises. Hope they keep this one.

 

[Hogprint]

Not so fast....

WRONG. The UNION was the first group to start trying to involve other employee groups when they started handing out their 'educational' materials at a company meeting.

WRONG...not gonna let you get away with this one FamilyGuy....we handed out pamphlets in RESPONSE to a company intranet page. You have been targeted by managment from day one. It's called class warfare. Sounds like you've bought into it hook line and sinker.

The UNION was the first group to take this fight public when they picketed at Berkshire's annual meeting in Omaha and bought billboards in CMH and TEB.

This contract has been in the public forum for four years. Do a Lexus-Nexus search. You will find Wall Street and NY Times references to labor negotiations at NJA.

Management had left us out of it and we were content to sit on the sidelines. Now when Management publishes a rebuttal to the union propaganda then you accuse them of using the employees in a "divide & conquer" battle plan????[/QUOTE]
As I said before, you have been targeted by MGT from the time this started getting contentious...probably before.

 

[FamilyGuy]

WRONG. The UNION was the first group to start trying to involve other employee groups when they started handing out their 'educational' materials at a company meeting.

WRONG...not gonna let you get away with this one FamilyGuy....we handed out pamphlets in RESPONSE to a company intranet page. You have been targeted by managment from day one. It's called class warfare. Sounds like you've bought into it hook line and sinker.

The UNION was the first group to take this fight public when they picketed at Berkshire's annual meeting in Omaha and bought billboards in CMH and TEB.

This contract has been in the public forum for four years. Do a Lexus-Nexus search. You will find Wall Street and NY Times references to labor negotiations at NJA.

Management had left us out of it and we were content to sit on the sidelines. Now when Management publishes a rebuttal to the union propaganda then you accuse them of using the employees in a "divide & conquer" battle plan????

As I said before, you have been targeted by MGT from the time this started getting contentious...probably before.[/QUOTE]

Okay, Hogprint....I'm trying to keep an open mind on this. For arguements sake, lets say you are right....I dont remember seeing anything from the company before I received your document at the meeting. What did this posting on the intranet say?

 

[Hogprint]

Boistures reply to the MECs counter proposal if I remember correct.

 

[TurboJetCpt]

The company has made many promises. Hope they keep this one.

FamilyIdiot is in his own little dreamworld. He WILL be layed off....too bad, so sad...

 

[FAcFriend]

family guy et al

You know the pilots do travel alot. And I have to agree (I think it was posted on this thread) that 100k does not buy alot these days. Also if you are married with a couple of kids, it is impossible for the wife to work a meaningful job while the husband is gone 50% of the time. They dont work 50% of the time- they are GONE 50% of the time.

And although we can all accept the fact the pilots "knew what they were getting into when they came to NJA" and "if you are married to a pilot you have to expect them to travel" the fact of the matter is the disparity between the rich and poor in this country is growing and someone has to step up to Bush's anti labor pro big guy, spend my social security stance.

AND- as long as the IBT feels confident that company will survive and I hope they keep that in mind- (given the fallacies of mgnt and that none of us is perfect) I hope these young families do get good raises and I hope they get them soon- 100%, I dont know. 50% yes if it is really 50% and not 50% after you start paying extra for sugar in your coffee.

Lets face it a college education and trained pilot should not start out at 27k. A college educated engineer does not start out at 27k. And we all know there are perks here like per diem, but the bottom rung has to be 40k starting out given the current schedule whatever the heck that is.

So pilots- here is my post. I AM AN outsider. I HAVE read alot. I AM NOT A MNGT TROLL. I have done alot of analysis. I have spoken to alot of you on both sides.

I am going to write my article now.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

family guy et al

You know the pilots do travel alot. And I have to agree (I think it was posted on this thread) that 100k does not buy alot these days. Also if you are married with a couple of kids, it is impossible for the wife to work a meaningful job while the husband is gone 50% of the time. They dont work 50% of the time- they are GONE 50% of the time.

And although we can all accept the fact the pilots "knew what they were getting into when they came to NJA" and "if you are married to a pilot you have to expect them to travel" the fact of the matter is the disparity between the rich and poor in this country is growing and someone has to step up to Bush's anti labor pro big guy, spend my social security stance.

AND- as long as the IBT feels confident that company will survive and I hope they keep that in mind- (given the fallacies of mgnt and that none of us is perfect) I hope these young families do get good raises and I hope they get them soon- 100%, I dont know. 50% yes if it is really 50% and not 50% after you start paying extra for sugar in your coffee.

Lets face it a college education and trained pilot should not start out at 27k. A college educated engineer does not start out at 27k. And we all know there are perks here like per diem, but the bottom rung has to be 40k starting out given the current schedule whatever the heck that is.

So pilots- here is my post. I AM AN outsider. I HAVE read alot. I AM NOT A MNGT TROLL. I have done alot of analysis. I have spoken to alot of you on both sides.

I am going to write my article now.

SO....

Now its George Bushs fault and Netjet pilots should start out at 40K huh?

Thats some of the dumbest $hit I read here yet!