Stop the divisive SWA AAI stuff

[Luv2BFlyin]

Thanks for pointing that out--that means you earned less than $174/hr for at least part of 2013. You should quit while you're behind.... :blush:


Bubba

However, when you work the system good and your pay to block ratio is 2-1, I'm effectively working for $340 an hour. Best case scenario, I'll be working for $280 an hour til I can hold upgrade in my home base and all things are equal again, maybe several years, may be never.

 

[waveflyer]

2-1??

Really

Sounds like you had a good deal in your niche carrier

Hope you enjoyed it while it lasted

Why you think it would last forever I have no idea

 

[SpauldingSmails]

However, when you work the system good and your pay to block ratio is 2-1, I'm effectively working for $340 an hour. Best case scenario, I'll be working for $280 an hour til I can hold upgrade in my home base and all things are equal again, maybe several years, may be never.

First world problems.

 

[Freebrd]

I think most Regional pilots will have a chance to make it to a Legacy (15,000 retirements coming). The only question is when they make the jump. Joining at the end of a huge hiring wave would not be as good, subjecting oneself to better possibilities of downgrades or even furloughs. Timing is a big deal now.

But, there are some people who just won't be able to make the jump. They might have this entitlement issue, that includes "I've been flying mainline pax at the Regionals, so I deserve to be blended in as a Capt..." That type of attitude will keep them where they are.

I think Regional Captains with a decade or more in the left seat could have some issues. Freeturd, otoh, had many years as an SIC in an RJ in Vietnam, and he hasn't been able to make the jump as of yet. I have given free advice to some on the Regional side, to head to a LCC first and then try for the Legacies.

Hopefully that will be a better path for him.


Bye Bye---General Lee

You are so FOS Jenni. Just dispatch those SKYW RJs insteAd of going for 20,000 posts on FI. Really now, 20,000 posts putz?!

 

[General Lee]

You are so FOS Jenni. Just dispatch those SKYW RJs insteAd of going for 20,000 posts on FI. Really now, 20,000 posts putz?!

Ahahahaha! Funny stuff. It's very likely you will never make it out of the Regionals. At least you have SIC Nam time..... Oh well.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[HowardBorden]

That is always my point here, pointing out the differences. And you may make more than a 737 pilot at DL, but it really depends on the longevity. A newhire at your airline doesn't make as much as a 2nd year 737 pilot at DL, or a 2nd year 7ER pilot, etc. If you compare it year by year, your pay is less after the 7ER pay.

Uhhhhhh, what? Never said that or even thought that. I'm sure that your airline was great prior to the merger stuff, and it pays well, but my deal here is to give basic differences so prospective new hires can start to investigate on their own. I think all of the big 3 airlines are better choices than being at the stagnate Corndog. It's called an opinion, backed by facts.

Here are some basic factual differences for you.

FIFTY-EIGHT PERCENT (58%) of all airframes on property at Delta pay less per hour than every Southwest Airlines 737 when comparing maximum pay rates. Or put another way, less than 42% of Delta airframes are paid at an hourly rate higher than every Southwest Airlines pilot flying every 737 at the top of the Southwest pay scale.

Since I am very familiar with your endless spin machine I know you will add in international override pay. How many international trips does the 717 fly? And, even adding in INT override, the 717 max pay is less than every SWA 737. How much international does the MD88/90 fly? Add in INT override and it's still less than every SWA 737. The same goes for the A319/320, both pay less than every SWA 737 even after adding in override. Even when you get in to identical airframes, every 737 at SWA pays more than every Delta 737. When you add in INT override, you finally get to an airframe that pays more than a SWA 737. A Delta 737-700 pilot flying an international trip for Delta earns 50 cents an hour more than every SWA 737-700 pilot flying any trip at SWA.

These percentages only include 44 of the world famous 88 717's coming to Delta. Add in the 757 airframes scheduled to leave the Delta fleet which are being replaced by 737-900's and the numbers continue to skew towards more than 58% of all Delta airframes receiving a lower max pay rate.

Again, I'm just trying to point out the differences between a legacy job compared with a LCC job as a public service announcement to those pilots that have been in the industry for years already in order to gain the requisite experience needed to apply to either. If your willing to spend many years in an airframe paying less before exercising your choice to move into another paying more then be forewarned. If after multiple years flying both types you decide you want to move to the left seat it will most definitely be in a lower paying airframe as the whole process starts over. If you enjoy constantly going to the schoolhouse in order to eek out a few more dollars of pay while losing seniority in a higher paying fleet type that will definitely be a choice available to you.

This concludes my public service announcement.

 

[General Lee]

The 717s go to Montreal, and recently it was announced that it would be doing a Nassau layover, plus a Georgetown, Bahamas turn on Saturdays. Those three were three more than your whole fleet before the AT merger, I wouldn't be bragging much. The Md88/90s go to Cancun, Belize, Roatan, and some Caribbean. The 320/319s do Mexico, Caribbean, Latin America, and Canada. Again, a lot more than your planes did 3 years ago, heck, one year ago. (The AT guys were trusted to do all of the INTL stuff, you were still learning autothrottles and VNAV)

As far as your 58% of your airframes paying more per hour (or confusing trip krap you guys use, on "Herb time" in DAL too (gimme a break)) that may be true. But add in profit sharing, and not having to spend a dime on retirement if you don't want to (15% DC fund contribution---without adding anything else, no matching REQUIREMENT that you guys have to do or zero matching), and it looks like you guys bring in less overall. If a DL pilot makes $20K in one month, the DC fund is increased by an extra $3000 (15%), without you adding any on your own. Can you understand that yet Howie? That's $23K for the month. If a DL pilot adds his own amount, and he hits the max 8 months in during the year, he gets an additional 15% of what ever he made for the month on top of his pay, as taxable income for the next 4 months. That's pretty good HOWIE. A DL pilot can also put all of his/her profit sharing into the retirement fund, and that could get him/her to that yearly max faster, and then adding the extra 15% to the monthly pay even faster, increasing the difference between the Corndog rates and the DL rates plus 15% of the monthly take home pay.

Sorry, you have to spend money to get retirement matching, and far less profit sharing (add 2 months pay this year, maybe more due to low oil). Look Howie, I debunked your krap in 1/3 the typing. Plus, you go to Midland, and you guys have far fewer retirements, meaning stagnation for years.


Great public service announcement. I win, and so will prospective new hires that avoid the Corndog and go to any of the three legacies. Which one have you applied to Howie? All of them?



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[HowardBorden]

The 717s go to Montreal, and recently it was announced that it would be doing a Nassau layover, plus a Georgetown, Bahamas turn on Saturdays. Those three were three more than your whole fleet before the AT merger, I wouldn't be bragging much. The Md88/90s go to Cancun, Belize, Roatan, and some Caribbean. The 320/319s do Mexico, Caribbean, and Canada. Again, a lot more than your planes did 3 years ago, heck, one year ago. (The AT guys were trusted to do all of the INTL stuff, you were still learning autothrottles and VNAV)

All for less hourly pay!

As far as your 58% of your airframes paying more per hour (or confusing trip krap you guys use, on "Herb time" in DAL too (gimme a break)) that may be true. But add in profit sharing, and not having to spend a dime on retirement if you don't want to (15% DC fund contribution---without adding anything else, no matching REQUIREMENT that you guys have to do or zero matching), and it looks like you guys bring in less overall. If a DL pilot makes $20K in one month, the DC fund is increased by an extra $3000 (15%), without you adding any on your own. Can you understand that yet Howie? That's $23K for the month. If a DL pilot adds his own amount, and he hits the max 8 months in during the year, he gets an additional 15% of what ever he made for the month on top of his pay, as taxable income for the next 4 months. That's pretty good HOWIE. A DL pilot can also put all of his/her profit sharing into the retirement fund, and that could get him/her to that yearly max faster, and then adding the extra 15% to the monthly pay even faster, increasing the difference between the Corndog rates and the DL rates plus 15% of the monthly take home pay.

Actually 100% of Southwest airframes pay MORE (there's a big difference) than the majority of those at Delta.

You really have comprehension issues.

 

[General Lee]

Ahahahaha! You lose Howie.

I LUV what you say:

"Actually 100% of Southwest airframes pay MORE (there's a big difference) than the majority of those at Delta."


That makes sense.....NOT. 100% make more than the MAJORITY....????


Face it, you lack variety in flying and choice of planes, you have a worse retirement plan, you had a bad SLI and now a grouchy pilot work force, you have fewer retirements upcoming meaning more stagnation, you have to pay for your type as a newhire if you don't already have it, and to top it off, you have to go to MAF/AMA/LBB.

Now that's a "Howie smack down!"


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Here are some basic factual differences for you.

FIFTY-EIGHT PERCENT (58%) of all airframes on property at Delta pay less per hour than every Southwest Airlines 737 when comparing maximum pay rates. Or put another way, less than 42% of Delta airframes are paid at an hourly rate higher than every Southwest Airlines pilot flying every 737 at the top of the Southwest pay scale.

Since I am very familiar with your endless spin machine I know you will add in international override pay. How many international trips does the 717 fly? And, even adding in INT override, the 717 max pay is less than every SWA 737. How much international does the MD88/90 fly? Add in INT override and it's still less than every SWA 737. The same goes for the A319/320, both pay less than every SWA 737 even after adding in override. Even when you get in to identical airframes, every 737 at SWA pays more than every Delta 737. When you add in INT override, you finally get to an airframe that pays more than a SWA 737. A Delta 737-700 pilot flying an international trip for Delta earns 50 cents an hour more than every SWA 737-700 pilot flying any trip at SWA.

These percentages only include 44 of the world famous 88 717's coming to Delta. Add in the 757 airframes scheduled to leave the Delta fleet which are being replaced by 737-900's and the numbers continue to skew towards more than 58% of all Delta airframes receiving a lower max pay rate.

Again, I'm just trying to point out the differences between a legacy job compared with a LCC job as a public service announcement to those pilots that have been in the industry for years already in order to gain the requisite experience needed to apply to either. If your willing to spend many years in an airframe paying less before exercising your choice to move into another paying more then be forewarned. If after multiple years flying both types you decide you want to move to the left seat it will most definitely be in a lower paying airframe as the whole process starts over. If you enjoy constantly going to the schoolhouse in order to eek out a few more dollars of pay while losing seniority in a higher paying fleet type that will definitely be a choice available to you.

This concludes my public service announcement.

I'll take the 42% that pays better and goes to better places than you Howard. How much is your international override hero? Or the fact that you fly -800s raping the customer with a backbreaking 170 seats on them while you get paid the same?

Go fix your own problems before highlighting ours.....It's not my fault no kid ever says "Gee Dad, I want to be a pilot for Southwest!"

I will gladly accept my job over yours 10 out of 10 times.

 

[say again]

Why do you kids feel the need to prove which airline is better? It's obvious that the SWA guys couldn't give a rats ass about their fleet and destination choices. The argument is weak, at best. Both are great airlines with two different work models. For me, int'l flying isn't for me (yes, I've done numerous flights overseas). I'm more of a domestic flyer these days, with occasional Caribbean flights.

 

[HowardBorden]

I LUV what you say:

"Actually 100% of Southwest airframes pay MORE (there's a big difference) than the majority of those at Delta."


That makes sense.....NOT. 100% make more than the MAJORITY....????

Let me put it in "simpleton terms".

You incorrectly state: "As far as your 58% of your airframes paying more per hour (or confusing trip krap you guys use, on "Herb time" in DAL too (gimme a break)) that may be true."

It's not 58% of SWA airframes that pay more than Delta's you imbecile, SWA airframes pay more than 58% of Delta airframes. Or, Southwest airframes pay MORE than the majority of those at Delta.

 

[HowardBorden]

I'll take the 42% that pays better and goes to better places than you Howard. How much is your international override hero? Or the fact that you fly -800s raping the customer with a backbreaking 170 seats on them while you get paid the same?

Go fix your own problems before highlighting ours.....It's not my fault no kid ever says "Gee Dad, I want to be a pilot for Southwest!"

I will gladly accept my job over yours 10 out of 10 times.

Sorry Bill, I'm just trying to point out the differences so potential new hires will have all the relevant information. It was a program developed by Glee that I added to.

You keep your job and I'll gladly keep mine, 10 out of 10 times.

 

[General Lee]

Why do you kids feel the need to prove which airline is better? It's obvious that the SWA guys couldn't give a rats ass about their fleet and destination choices. The argument is weak, at best. Both are great airlines with two different work models. For me, int'l flying isn't for me (yes, I've done numerous flights overseas). I'm more of a domestic flyer these days, with occasional Caribbean flights.

That's great Say Again. I'm glad Corndogs don't care about destinations or fleet types.....(???! Now I'm gonna say "Say Again????")

Uhhhhhhhh, whaaat? You don't? So, you're burned out and just don't care anymore...... Greeeeaaaat! I guess doing enough 5-6 leg days intra Texas will do that to you.

When you get CHOICES, you often take notice and bid for longer layovers, places you might want to see, etc. That's called variety, and a difference between the two airlines.

So, if they pay about the same on the narrowbodies (even though you guys only have one type), and one airline has a lot of Widebodies also, plus a variety of trip types and flying (INTL & DOM), one has a better retirement (15% DC), and above all has HUGE upward movement coming due to 5000+ retirements, it should be easy for a prospective new hire to choose where he/she wants to go. And the great thing is, there are 3 legacies that fit that image.

Which one have you applied to?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Let me put it in "simpleton terms".

You incorrectly state: "As far as your 58% of your airframes paying more per hour (or confusing trip krap you guys use, on "Herb time" in DAL too (gimme a break)) that may be true."

It's not 58% of SWA airframes that pay more than Delta's you imbecile, SWA airframes pay more than 58% of Delta airframes. Or, Southwest airframes pay MORE than the majority of those at Delta.

But Howie, the pay rate is one thing, but it depends on how a pilot chooses to bid. Some guys go for reserve to fly as little as possible, some guys fly the max. That's great. Now throw in 2 months pay or more of profit sharing (for all fleets), and 5000 retirements.

That's the main difference here, huge upward movement, and huge profit sharing which ADDS to the slight lower pay rate on some of the narrowbody planes, and adds a lot more to the Widebody pay. Then not having to match on the retirement, and it isn't close.

And this is a great public service announcement, you are getting trounced. It's called CHOICE and VARIETY. And all 3 legacies will have it. Tell your friends...



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Freebrd]

friggin broken record but guess when you're seeking 20,000 posts...

 

[HowardBorden]

Ahahahaha! You lose Howie.

I LUV what you say:

"Actually 100% of Southwest airframes pay MORE (there's a big difference) than the majority of those at Delta."


That makes sense.....NOT. 100% make more than the MAJORITY....????

Let me put it in "simpleton terms".

You incorrectly state: "As far as your 58% of your airframes paying more per hour (or confusing trip krap you guys use, on "Herb time" in DAL too (gimme a break)) that may be true."

It's not 58% of SWA airframes that pay more than Delta's you imbecile, SWA airframes pay more than 58% of Delta airframes. Or, Southwest airframes pay MORE than the majority of those at Delta.

But Howie, the pay rate is one thing, but it depends on how a pilot chooses to bid. Some guys go for reserve to fly as little as possible, some guys fly the max. That's great. Now throw in 2 months pay or more of profit sharing (for all fleets), and 5000 retirements.

That's the main difference here, huge upward movement, and huge profit sharing which ADDS to the slight lower pay rate on some of the narrowbody planes, and adds a lot more to the Widebody pay. Then not having to match on the retirement, and it isn't close.

And this is a great public service announcement, you are getting trounced. It's called CHOICE and VARIETY. And all 3 legacies will have it. Tell your friends...

That was simply me explaining the big words that you didn't understand just like I would for a child, it was not the cue for you to launch into your tired old diatribe that we have all heard 20,000 times.

 

[General Lee]

That was simply me explaining the big words that you didn't understand just like I would for a child, it was not the cue for you to launch into your tired old diatribe that we have all heard 20,000 times.

And you try to refute it, but you can't. The only reason someone now would want to be a Corndog is because your airline is the best LCC out there, and that's about it. The big 3 are leaving you behind. More retirements, more profits, and more variety. I can see why you get upset.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[madjack]

Like it or not it's the big 4 now, we have over 600 airplanes....as the legacies raise the bar, we will rise with it, gradually at COLA rates of increase.. No more big moves, but incremental and steady improvements for hopefully years to come....

 

[General Lee]

Like it or not it's the big 4 now, we have over 600 airplanes....as the legacies raise the bar, we will rise with it, gradually at COLA rates of increase.. No more big moves, but incremental and steady improvements for hopefully years to come....

I hope you do keep raising the bar. But, there are huge differences between the big 3 and number 4. That's my point here. And as retirements increase, there may be large pay increases to attract as many pilots as possible from the LCCs and Regionals to help fill the 15,000 openings created by the retirements.


Bye Bye---General Lee