Stinger Missiles on 60 minutes!

[Newjetjockey]

Here's a link to the 60 minutes website.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/30/60minutes/main546804.shtml

 

[Newjetjockey]

This may post twice. It didn't seem to work the first time.

Here's a link to the 60 minutes story.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/30/60minutes/main546804.shtml

 

[klhoard]

Say Again??

Hey bluto...check this out. Every time a "DON"T" person gets on here and says don't talk about this, that and the other thing...it's like I'd just like to flick a buger in his coffee...Thanks for saving us from the terrorists bluto and if you can understand the JIST of the hard core information including blueprints on this link on how to make a link...then you can understand my irkedness about "shhhhhhh" people pontificating about not discussing what is on the local and national news.

http://www.linuxshell.org/pics/ar15/link/lightning.html

Before you take out yer sheet metal and your dremel tools boy's, you better get real familiar with the Code of Federal Regulations in the title pertaining to BATF.

And just what does this post have to do with the price of tea in EWR????

Confused in MEM. . . .

 

[thebluto]

I don't drink coffee, flick away

I guess what I'm driving at is if you were in the military and knew which countermeasures worked against certain types of weapons, it's probably not a good idea (you signed something that said you wouldn't) to post it in an unclassified forum.

The towelheads in Desert Storm were so backwards that they'd turn off their transistor radios because they were afraid a HARM missile would lock in on them.

So, their buddies in Al Qaeda have learned a few things since then. Does it really pay to give them more ideas?

 

[46Driver]

Interesting to note that it was in the Tom Clancy book "Debt of Honor" where the bad guys hijack a jumbo jet and crash it into the White House. I doubt if we are telling these guys anything they don't already know.

 

[klhoard]

Re: I don't drink coffee, flick away

The towelheads in Desert Storm were so backwards that they'd turn off their transistor radios because they were afraid a HARM missile would lock in on them.

Oh great move, Bluto, now they know HARM missles can't lock onto transistor radios. . . .

BTW - I don't care if you drink coffee or not. . . just make sure you have some ready for me. . . . .

 

[WrightAvia]

And just what does this post have to do with the price of tea in EWR????

Confused in MEM. . . .

Khload...please don't tell me that you cannot understand the correlation between some guy telling us that talking about stuff that was on 60 minutes this weekend, was going to aid the terrorists any more than information readily found in places such as on the net, books, arson investigation training films, police training films, airline training films.

My point was...there is more better information out there, than guys discussing what they saw on 60 minutes on an aviation forum. Just like what 46 driver is saying here...

Interesting to note that it was in the Tom Clancy book "Debt of Honor" where the bad guys hijack a jumbo jet and crash it into the White House. I doubt if we are telling these guys anything they don't already know.

 

[WrightAvia]

Before you take out yer sheet metal and your dremel tools boy's, you better get real familiar with the Code of Federal Regulations in the title pertaining to BATF.

And just to make sure every body is on the same page...That was a disclaimer. You cannot possess the lightning link AND possess a Colt AR-15 or bushmaster rifle, at the same time...unless you are in compliance with CFRs pertaining to such items. The link to the lightning link article, was posted to present a fact that there is plenty of information out there for people to use if they want to assemble evil items and use them against us.

Also to consider...how do you outlaw the possession of knowledge?

 

[klhoard]

Tea prices in EWR. . .

Khload...please don't tell me that you cannot understand the correlation between some guy telling us . . <snip>. . .

No, I was actually trying to find out why tea costs so darn much up in EWR. I had a layover there a couple weeks ago and the restaurant in the hotel charged me $1.95 for a glass of iced tea. A bit much, I think, but well within my per diem so I didn't protest to the manager. Does anyone else on this board recall what they paid recently for a glass of iced tea in different parts of the U.S.??

Why, were you trying to make a point about something else??

 

[WrightAvia]

Heheheheheheheh

 

[N1atEcon]

NJ Blows. I was at a Wendy's there. I went to get a refill on my Dr Pepper at the counter. They looked at me like i was loose from the looney bin. I have been to a lot of Wendy's across this great country and that was a first for me.

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

Lets see..

The argument that if El Al can have anti missle systems on their airliners why cant everybody else just doesnt work..Last time i looked ..I think El AL had 30 planes and several of those were in use by the goverment..

Thats a long way away from trying to equip several hundred airlines all over the world with anti missle systems that may not defeat low tech threats anyway..

So..Its never gonna happen..

The other thought that comes to mind is this..

If the TSA,FBI,CIA,FAA,DIA,and CBS think that this sorta thing is as great a threat as they would have us believe..Then why in the world do they still allow plane watchers to camp out at the ends of just about every major and secondary airport runway in America..?Can you say"pull!!"?
Every day i go to work i see mom,dad,and the kids packed in a mini van parked in a parking lot or grass field out at the end of the runway...Not too much of a streach if you want to take it to the next level..

Also..How quickly we forget that the two greatest terror events to ever happen on US soil centered around low tech weapons and delivery systems..Box cutters and brute force and diesel fuel and fertilizer in a rental van..
Low tech but effective..But most importantly..Very easy to get without attracting attention and very hard to trace..

When you increase the sophistication of either the delivery system or the weapon you start to run into various problems with getting your hands on them as well as running the risk of exposing yourself to security agencies...Not to mention the maintenance aspects of some..

No..The next round in the fight on terror may well be opened with the use of nothing but our own weakness and arrogance against us in conjunction with something very low tech,very easy to get,and very hard to trace...
The list of those items is just about endless..

Also..How do you keep tabs on weither we are winning or losing this "war" on terror?
If you keep score by counting the amount of money each side has spent to stay in the game..

Very clearly we are losing...

Mike

 

[dispatchguy]

Also..How quickly we forget that the two greatest terror events to ever happen on US soil centered around low tech weapons and delivery systems..Box cutters and brute force and diesel fuel and fertilizer in a rental van..
Low tech but effective..But most importantly..Very easy to get without attracting attention and very hard to trace..

Not trying to sound alarmist, but in the recent arrests in EWR, the perp was trying to sell the IGLA 18 missile, which just so happens to be one of the more advanced surface to air missile systems. He wasnt selling the SA-7 GRAIL, which is was what used against the Israeli airliner in Kenya (I think it was Kenya), and is much more low-tech.

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-18.htm

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

You just made my point..
The very reason that system was available was because it was "released"onto the market in a controlled manner in order to effect the "sting"..It was reported to have been a dummie demo unit for training and the perp didnt know the difference..

The older "stuff" that may well be "low tech" will be easier to get than say a duel cooled seeker head current issue system..

To put it another way..
Some guy comes around and says hes got 200 ..new..in the box..current production run Stingers for 10 k apiece..

What do you think the odds are of it being a real deal?

Now..The same guy says hes got one..slightly out of date...shoulder launched..Afgan era..something or other thats been maintained by his good brother Osama..

Which is going to be harder to detect in the way of communications..money transfers,transportation,ect..ect..?

Both are a potential threat..Which is going to be easier to get and deploy..?

Just a thought..

Mike

 

[fokkerjet]

The other thought that comes to mind is this..

If the TSA,FBI,CIA,FAA,DIA,and CBS think that this sorta thing is as great a threat as they would have us believe..Then why in the world do they still allow plane watchers to camp out at the ends of just about every major and secondary airport runway in America..?Can you say"pull!!"?
Every day i go to work i see mom,dad,and the kids packed in a mini van parked in a parking lot or grass field out at the end of the runway...Not too much of a streach if you want to take it to the next level..

One thing about having Mom, Dad and the kids, sitting in the minivan watching airplanes, they will probably deter someone with a shoulder launch missle from hanging around and waiting for a target.

And why does the terrorist have to be sitting at the end of the runway? Most instrument approaches have you crossing the outer marker around 2000', or so, above the ground anyways.......I'm sure well within range of any missle system that's a threat. He!!, you probably can be sitting more than 10 miles away from the airport, right out in the open, and never be seen.

You can drive yourself nuts worrying about this stuff, and chances are that you have a bigger chance of hitting a mountain before ever being shot down.

 

[Newjetjockey]

MLB,

You have some excellent points. However, I still feel that if they can coordinate Sept. 11th, they could easily coordinate this attack. Maybe not this week, month, or year, but it could be done and I feel it will be the next step.

Besides, even if it was the lower tech models, I could probably throw a rock and hit some jets that are on short final. With a little training I wonder if I could hit a plane with a missle even if it didn't have heat seeking abilities. It just seems like an easy thing to do.

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

Both of you guys i think could be correct..

If you could deploy a more advanced system then you could have a much longer range to operate from..I tend to think that those are much harder to get for all the previous reasons..

But..I also think that given the fact that we allow the public so close to aircraft in flight that it doesnt take all that much or even no tech to complete the mission..

I think that the ONLY thing that will be effective against such threats is to have prior knowledge of any such events well away from the U.S...This plus having the group or groups un-funded or off balance to the point of not being able to create such an event is i think our only option..

It may be better to spend 10 billion for good intel..Otherwise you may spend the money on aircraft systems and then have ONE get shot at and kill the whole air travel industry because you couldnt stop the attempt..

If hard and fast proof ever comes to light that such an event is about to happen here in the US...Every one of us is more than likely going to be out of a job..

Mike

 

[WrightAvia]

And with all that has been said here, why does it have to airliners? They'll have us all running around like chickens with our heads cut off for sure...but we'll never know till they cut into the soaps again with breaking news.