Standby Duty at Flex

[gunfyter]

Club Ord,

If you do not HAVE to answer ...

The policy IS in compliance with the rules....

I think its a policy that could only work with a very small pilot group or one with extremely good relations with management.

BW,

I have MANY posts on this topic going back 8 years or so....

The Thread on Response time is good reading.

I have links to several Court Cases (AVIATORS, WHITLOW) etc.. in the posts ....

 

[brokeflyer]

All you have to do is google "Tom Gasta Duty Rest"

who da fck is tom gasta?.....








lol

 

[ArtVandalay]

Lets set this straight:

• I said "man up" and ANSWER the phone. I didn't say go fly with 5 hours of rest.
• In my operation it is IMPOSSIBLE to get a 0300 call. The earliest is 0500.
• There are THOUSANDS of corporate pilots who do exactly what we do and are tied to a pager. Their only protection is "fatigued" to which they can then lose their jobs. Why are you not concerned about their unsafe practices? I'm at least complying with 135 rest rules.
• Why would you trade endless hours in an FBO that happens all the time for protection against a 0300 call that happens once a year if that, when you can easily protect yourself from the same thing by just saying, "sorry, the schedule had me out at 1400 so I stayed up late and now I'm not fit to take the 0500 wheels up."
• I have never advocated flying without adequate rest. My QOL is just fine on the road. My QOL would take a major hit if I had to start going to the airport 5 or more hours early just so my company can force me to answer the phone. I'd rather simply answer the phone.

Say what you want but I'm all for a safe operation where crews are rested. I do not fly fatigued. I do answer my phone after rest periods, as does everyone else I know.

Hey Glass,

If you took the time to actually understand the regs you would realize you have no argument here. Your "rest" ends at the beginning of your next duty assignment. Call the CP and ask him and that is exactly what he'll tell you. 10 hours has nothing to do with anything other than being a minimum required block. So you answering your phone is perfectly fine; however, you are not required to do so until your scheduled rest ends--at the beginning of your next assignment.

NOW. What flex IS doing now with our new "rule" in place is this:

Remember they always put us into rest at 5pm, right? "off duty at 3pm, in rest at 5pm". NOW, they are putting us into rest EXACTLY 10 hours prior to the minimum call time. Example:

noon start---minus 4 hours= 8am --- minus 10 hours= 10PM. So, what they do now is this:

"off duty at 3pm, in rest at 10PM" So, guess what? Now you HAVE to answer your phone until 10PM so, all you heavy beer drinkers can not begin your drinking until 10PM!

Take and Give. that's what the new rule boiled down to; however, it's a start I suppose.

 

[flyinloki]

Thats the cargo way my friend. 24/7 callouts. We survive it. Lol! But then again I hate it!

 

[Ace75]

Hey Glass,

If you took the time to actually understand the regs you would realize you have no argument here. Your "rest" ends at the beginning of your next duty assignment. Call the CP and ask him and that is exactly what he'll tell you. 10 hours has nothing to do with anything other than being a minimum required block. So you answering your phone is perfectly fine; however, you are not required to do so until your scheduled rest ends--at the beginning of your next assignment.

NOW. What flex IS doing now with our new "rule" in place is this:

Remember they always put us into rest at 5pm, right? "off duty at 3pm, in rest at 5pm". NOW, they are putting us into rest EXACTLY 10 hours prior to the minimum call time. Example:

noon start---minus 4 hours= 8am --- minus 10 hours= 10PM. So, what they do now is this:

"off duty at 3pm, in rest at 10PM" So, guess what? Now you HAVE to answer your phone until 10PM so, all you heavy beer drinkers can not begin your drinking until 10PM!

Take and Give. that's what the new rule boiled down to; however, it's a start I suppose.

By taking us off duty 10 hours before rest it has resulted in being on a combined duty + non-assigned duty for more than 14 or even 16 hours, this is an actual example:

Duty on 0900---fly fly fly---released from duty 1800 in rest at 0300, next day trip sheets show 1700 standby.

What is this time between 1800 and 0300? Doesn't it count as duty if I am required to answer my phone (since I am not in rest)? Between 0900 and 0300 is 18 hours of not being in rest, how is this legal?

The reason 0300 is given is because of that new 4 hour change band, 0300+10 hours rest = 1300 which is 4 hours before the 1700 standby. Please enlighten me...

 

[ProFracPilot]

What is this time between 1800 and 0300? Doesn't it count as duty if I am required to answer my phone (since I am not in rest)? Between 0900 and 0300 is 18 hours of not being in rest, how is this legal?

The FAA doesn't care how long you've been "on duty". The reg requires prospective rest (look back) of 10 hours in a 24 hour period. So, as long as you are not assigned a flight beyond the point where you lack the 10 hours of prospective rest, there is no regulatory problem. From 2300-0300 you're available to answer a call, but unavailable to accept a flight. You're not yet in assigned rest (which, by your example, starts at 0300).

 

[Rouge Warrior]

but with 18 of duty your require __ hours off according to the duty time limitations?

(asking)

 

[FalconPilot69]

By taking us off duty 10 hours before rest it has resulted in being on a combined duty + non-assigned duty for more than 14 or even 16 hours, this is an actual example:

Duty on 0900---fly fly fly---released from duty 1800 in rest at 0300, next day trip sheets show 1700 standby.

What is this time between 1800 and 0300? Doesn't it count as duty if I am required to answer my phone (since I am not in rest)? Between 0900 and 0300 is 18 hours of not being in rest, how is this legal?

The reason 0300 is given is because of that new 4 hour change band, 0300+10 hours rest = 1300 which is 4 hours before the 1700 standby. Please enlighten me...

If you are off duty at 1800, you are free to do as you feel (drink adult beverages.) The in rest at 0300 is simply there to prevent the 0300 wake up call with your next scheduled assignment to be at 1700. This gives them their 4 hours plus 2 hours before or after rest block prior to assignment window. However, you still do not have to answer your phone until 1700.

All the change band is designed to do is to stop dispatch from telling you that you have a 1500 show to fly all night and then calling you at 0300 saying change of plans and now you have not had any sleep due to you trying to change you sleep cycle.

 

[FalconPilot69]

but with 18 of duty your require __ hours off according to the duty time limitations?

(asking)

Rogue,

We are limited to 14 hours of scheduled duty with a company option to 16 hours under Part 91 only and also only if all crew members agree. Now if owner delays or wx or whatever happen to change the time frame then after 14 we start having more time added to our rest period.

I hope this helps.

 

[Pacific]

If you are off duty at 1800, you are free to do as you feel (drink adult beverages.) The in rest at 0300 is simply there to prevent the 0300 wake up call with your next scheduled assignment to be at 1700. This gives them their 4 hours plus 2 hours before or after rest block prior to assignment window. However, you still do not have to answer your phone until 1700.

Not so. If you still have time in your 14 hr duty day they can call you back to the airport with a 1.5 hr callout or have you do a drug test or whatever they need. You are still responible to answer your phone or return text messages to acknowledge changes until you go into rest.