Speed Limit under Class Bravo

[Bjammin]

Thanks for that great research! Now maybe we can put this thing to bed.

I found out some fighter type aircraft have letters on file with the FAA that allow them to fly above the 250KTS below 10K in any airspace. Some of our jet's best climb speed is 300KTS and, especially in formation, it is very difficult to fly any slower without a configuration change. So please don't bust on a military guy if he says he flies faster then some required speed limits, even under class B airspace.

 

[Bandit60]

Thanks for the information

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Yea, I wish! I have flown with Primus 2000 (Citation X), as well as P1000 systems, and neither depict special use airspace on MFDs. A pretty big oversight in my opinion. On the other hand, every handheld GPS these days has it, as do most small GA aircraft. Is that backwards or what?!?!

So don't get used to using those G530s while training.....the jet you move into probably won't have it. It's back to using "paper."

That sucks NJA. I've flown two turboprops and both had the functionality in the MFD to depict typical Class B/C airspace floors and ceilings as well as special use airspace. How the hell do you know if you're under a class B at all? Pull out a VFR map and get a cross-radial off a VOR? Do you just slow to 200 anyway? That seems unlikely. As I mentioned, I'd disagree with the posters who say ATC tells you when you're in or under class B or gives airspeed restrictions near that airspace. Doesn't always happen and it's pretty funny to hear the next controller flip out because one guy is going 235, the next 135 and the next 170.

Mr. I.

 

[mnixon]

Thanks for that great research! Now maybe we can put this thing to bed.

I found out some fighter type aircraft have letters on file with the FAA that allow them to fly above the 250KTS below 10K in any airspace. Some of our jet's best climb speed is 300KTS and, especially in formation, it is very difficult to fly any slower without a configuration change. So please don't bust on a military guy if he says he flies faster then some required speed limits, even under class B airspace.

Last time I checked the Government makes special considerations for military aircraft.

 

[hawg2hawk]

Last time I checked the Government makes special considerations for military aircraft.

Like what?

 

[Singlecoil]

Thanks HMR, I did mean "whichever is higher".

 

[HMR]

Thanks HMR, I did mean "whichever is higher".

Hey, I figure anyone who's into single coils is pretty smart. Personally, I think the less magnets to interfere with the strings vibration, the better the tone. An early '60's Gibson Melody Maker can bring me to tears. Of course anything sounds good through my Matchless DC-30. But I digress...

What was the topic again?

 

[K.V.]

It's 200 knots in class B Guys. I know a few people that have gotten a speeding ticket (warning) climbing out at the normal 250.

 

[Flechas]

It's 200 knots in class B Guys. I know a few people that have gotten a speeding ticket (warning) climbing out at the normal 250.

You mean under class B it is 200, inside B is 250.

 

[Singlecoil]

It's 200 knots in class B Guys. I know a few people that have gotten a speeding ticket (warning) climbing out at the normal 250.

Or maybe he meant D.

 

[GIVDrvr]

Anyone have a FAA pub reference for the clean maneuvering speed in excess of 200 knot below class B issue?

 

[apdsm]

Look, don't go telling me stuff about "I should know where I am at all times" I DO, but when being vectored around PHX in a fighter, I may not have the best Situational Awarness on where the Class B is at every minute. I don't have an autopilot and am in a tight cockpit by myself. It would be UNSAFE for me to have charts all over the canopy while trying to fly the jet around busy airspace. I have had no problems what so ever with PHX controllers and, in fact, have been praised for not being a hassle. I have never had anyone in my squadron have a problem and we fly everywhere in the country.
Again, I'm not saying I am in the right, but my options are limited. I may slow down to 200kts anytime I'm am near class B and will ask my compadres to do the same.
Don't go being condesending and an arse for no reason.

He was not being condescending or an arse. If it ever came down to it, that is EXACTLY what the FAA would say!

 

[av8tor4239]

I fly the ATR in and out of ATL. There are several speed traps where they will bring you in below class B depending if you are landing east or west, and what arrival you are coming in on.

Also, on the ATR going to CSG or MCN, you might not go above 6000 feet for the entire flight. ATC in ATL has never said anything about it, but a rule is a rule?

Anyone else in and out of ATL Hartsfield Jackson (Laquisha Tyrone Jammal Lakita) International airport have an opinion on the ATL speed traps?

 

[Bjammin]

He was being condescending! To say I don't know where I am at all times as a senior military IP and CFII is condescending.

- 1st The military has wavers for speed limits as some fighter's manuevering speeds are well above 200 or even 250. ex: EA-6B 300KTS

- 2nd single piloted fighters are not required to have lots of pubs on board, where would we put them all? It is very difficult without an autopilot to find the chart you need, unfold it, and try to read it all while in the goo and turb with a wingman.

- 3rd I know of no one in my squadron or others that has EVER had a problem operating at speeds above 200kts under class B.

Again, i'm not saying I am right, but people trying to be all knowing towards a side of aviation they know nothing about ticks me off. Just talk to me about the rules and educate me, DON"T BE A JERK ABOUT IT!

We have controllers located at our field and in talking to them they have no problem with us going 250KTS under class B, and as I've said PHX controllers don't seem to have a problem either.

Now, I will make our guys aware of the airspeed limitation and will do my best to follow this rule if in an aircraft that can fly at 200KTS clean.

If this thread turns into a military vs. civilian thing, what a shame. I live and breathe BOTH.

He was not being condescending or an arse. If it ever came down to it, that is EXACTLY what the FAA would say!

 

[Singlecoil]

Anyone have a FAA pub reference for the clean maneuvering speed in excess of 200 knot below class B issue?

Sec. 91.117

Aircraft speed.

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).
(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph). This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.
(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph).
(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.

The key to reading that is the "any particular operation" part. If the configuration you are in requires you to fly faster than 200 to maintain bank angle protection, you can. I thought the 200 in Class D was hard and fast, but it looks like it isn't either. Some heavy jets require faster than 250kts to fly clean. This is the section that allows that as well.

 

[SWA Aviator]

Look, don't go telling me stuff about "I should know where I am at all times" I DO, but when being vectored around PHX in a fighter, I may not have the best Situational Awarness on where the Class B is at every minute. I don't have an autopilot and am in a tight cockpit by myself.


Wow dude I hope you don't fly by yourself it seems you need to have a safety pilot if you have that much trouble navigating. You better know where you are going and if you don't you don't need to be airborne! I heard China Air is hiring!

 

[Bjammin]

Another condesending arse.

Until you have done #2 in my above thread, please save the rude comments.
I respect you helo time, I respect your hours, but you are truly CLUELESS when it comes to tactical jet aviation. I fly by myself all the time with 3 student solo wingman and several tons of bombs probably over your house, scary huh. Or how about leading a 15 plane gorilla package into north Iraq with sam sights called to go hot. When was the last time you were is a situation where if your navigation was off YOU GOT SHOT AT!
If you want to fault me for not knowing exactly where the rim of all class B airspace is with only a tacan and a small kneeboard chart, fine. However, while the FAA and most others seem to know the stress of the above and give some slack, I just don't care.

 

[jumppilot]

Bjammin,

Chill dude. And what I mean by that is, for every two people who reply saying you are an idiot, there are 12,566 people who don't post in support of your position.

Heck, even most of the airline types on this board don't even know when they are below a class B above 250....YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!

 

[Lead Sled]

Bjammin,

Chill dude. And what I mean by that is, for every two people who reply saying you are an idiot, there are 12,566 people who don't post in support of your position.

Heck, even most of the airline types on this board don't even know when they are below a class B above 250....YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!

Jumppilot...
I'll go you even one better, most "airline types" have no clue because they have no need - ATC keeps those guys solidly within Class B Airspace when they're operating in and out of the primary airport. We've got a moving map display on the bizjet I fly that has the various airspaces displayed. It's the only way that we can really know for sure whether or not we're in or below the airspace.

'Sled

 

[SWA Aviator]

Another condesending arse.

Until you have done #2 in my above thread, please save the rude comments.
I respect you helo time, I respect your hours, but you are truly CLUELESS when it comes to tactical jet aviation. I fly by myself all the time with 3 student solo wingman and several tons of bombs probably over your house, scary huh. Or how about leading a 15 plane gorilla package into north Iraq with sam sights called to go hot. When was the last time you were is a situation where if your navigation was off YOU GOT SHOT AT!
If you want to fault me for not knowing exactly where the rim of all class B airspace is with only a tacan and a small kneeboard chart, fine. However, while the FAA and most others seem to know the stress of the above and give some slack, I just don't care.

You need to find another line of work if you can't navigate around class B! I'll bet I have more time at flight idle in combat then you have total! I would hate to be your student forget about being your wingman, I'll bet your career is a short one. You need to start caring! It's a small aviation world out there and I can bet you'll never be in my cockpit. We weed out guys like you in the interview process. Can you say "We have the perfect car for you, $199 down $199 per month no matter what you credit history is?"