Speaking of speeches...

[uba757]

Pcl, it saddens me to read that you think things in Iraq are just peachy for us. I gues the 4 or 5 soldiers dying almost daily is no big deal in your mind, it is in mine. You blame the Liberals for our national problems but I blame people like you. You are that guy who is blind to any mistakes made by the present administration and no matter what will never question just follow like a good dog. Im a very proud Democrat but I can stand up and say Bill Clinton did some things that were wrong and followed some policies that were incorrect but you cant do that. I guess in your opinion eventually the insurgents in Iraq will run out of people and weapons and then we will actually be done with Iraq you know I would love for that to be a reality but I know better and so should you. Oh and by the way just in case you were going to question it I am a Conservative Democrat.

 

[uba757]

Pcl I guess the only solution is your solution. Eventually either they will run out of fighters or we will run out of soldiers and who ever is left standing wins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PCL_128]

Pcl, it saddens me to read that you think things in Iraq are just peachy for us. I gues the 4 or 5 soldiers dying almost daily is no big deal in your mind, it is in mine.

People die in war. It isn't pretty, but it is what it is. I'd rather 2000 soldiers die in Iraq than 2 million innocent civilians die in a nuclear explosion in downtown New York. If we run and hide from the terrorists, then that's exactly what will happen. We have to take the fight to them, and thankfully we have a President that understands that.

You blame the Liberals for our national problems but I blame people like you. You are that guy who is blind to any mistakes made by the present administration and no matter what will never question just follow like a good dog. Im a very proud Democrat but I can stand up and say Bill Clinton did some things that were wrong and followed some policies that were incorrect but you cant do that.

Actually, on domestic policy there are plenty of things that I can criticize the Bush administration for. On foreign policy and the war on terror however, the Bush administration has been right on target.

Oh and by the way just in case you were going to question it I am a Conservative Democrat.

Conservative Democrat? There hasn't been such a thing in 50 years.

 

[PCL_128]

Pcl I guess the only solution is your solution. Eventually either they will run out of fighters or we will run out of soldiers and who ever is left standing wins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I keep asking for other solutions, but none of you will offer any. All you have to offer are complaints and Micky Moore talking points. I still stand here waiting for any Iraq solutions from a liberal. I have a feeling that I'll be waiting for quite some time. Liberals have no solutions to offer, only whining.

 

[uba757]

The solution is for us to tell the Iraquis that we did the hard part of getting rid of Sadam and now is time for you to take control of your stupid country fight your own battles and we are out of here.

The bad thing is that the problems that they are going to be left with are because we invaded a country without really taking all of the consequences into account. It is our fault. But I am not willing to loose another young man or woman to correct the mistakes of some peolpe that are too proud to admit that they were wrong.

 

[PCL_128]

uba, I'm impressed. You're the first one I've seen here admit what the liberals really want: tuck our tail between our legs and run home. Of course, I disagree with such a cowardly strategy, but at least you'll say what you really think. None of the other libs around here will do that.

Running away will not solve our problems, and it will just leave Iraq to be taken by the terrorists and turned into another Islamo-fascist theocracy. That doesn't benefit us or the Iraqis. Planting seeds of democracy in the Middle East is the only way to win this war. It will take a few generations, but we will win. The way to defeat terrorism is to change the mindset of the Islamic youth now, before they have been brainwashed by the radical Islamics. If we leave Iraq now, then the radicals will just have another breeding ground for the next generation of terrorists. Twenty years from now we be seeing another building collapse to the ground in one of our cities because we didn't stop the problem when we had a chance.

I respect your opinion about a solution, because at least you have one, but I most certainly disagree.

 

[uba757]

Proud to be Coservative and Democrat and by the way I have never seen anything by this guy Moore so again all you can do is attack with the same moronic, stupid comments. Wars have a purpose (usually to get rid of some one who is going to cause your country some type of harm) North Korea has the capability to stick a Nuclear Missile in downtown Los Angeles, Iraq does not have either the weapons nor the capability to get the weapon here. Osama attacked us, Osama is in Afganistan, Attacking Afganistan was the right thing to do and we should have all those troops that are in Iraq instead fighting in Afganistan.

 

[uba757]

Pcl This people hate us. No matter what we do, no matter how much we help they are now and always going to hate us. The seeds are already planted and again no matter how much we try they hate us and that will never change.

Wars should be fought wihtout rulles just kill the enemy but we have all this rules that we follow to kill the enemy and they dont. They kill us when we are eating, sleeping, working etc. We cant because we dont want to piss-off their religious leaders I say Fuuuuuuuck em. If our military was alloud to fight like they are capable then they would have ended this shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit a long time ago but again our leaders suck.

You want to know how to fix this war. The way to fix it is for Mr. Bush to stop being a Fuuuuuuuuuuucking Puuuuuuuuuuuuuuussy and let our boys and girls fight their war but that will never happend because he is a kiss AAAAASS to those stupid religious JACKASSSSSSSES in Iraq.

 

[blingair]

Talking about brain washed, do you have anything to say about this other than what Michael Moore has already said? Traumahawk, I haven't read one intelligent statement from you in the course of the 2 or 3 threads related to this subject. Luckily you're in the minority, the loud few that whine and moan but offer little substative thought. I pity the poor captains that have to listen to your boring mantra all day.

Hey Tard, have you seen the approval ratings lately? Many fine Americans are getting sick and tired of the Same Ol' Sheet. Traumas not in the minority anymore.

 

[blingair]

Education. We spend more per student than almost every other country on the planet, yet our performance is below that of most other civilized countries on the planet. Bush gave you that? I'd argue that politics, unions and the government being involved in education is to blame for that. Which side do those unions vote on? Which side have they voted on for 50 plus years? Pull your head out.

Health Care. We have the best medicine on the planet, without some control of the massive effects of litigation and high insurance, there isn't any one person to blame for its problems, least of all Bush. As for us caring for your elderly parents, they're the ones that put us in the this situation. You can't create a system of health care that is paid for by those coming behind you. The numbers are showing us the result of that plan.

The TSA. Agree with you completely, Bush caved to the democrat notion that it would be a unionized government agency.

The national debt. So the end of the 90's and high tech firms with over-inflated values had nothing to do with that? What do you think Clinton's budgets were based on? The bubble popped, the economy right sized itself and the Democrats were screaming that the Republicans were going to starve the elderly when they repubs introduced budgets that were only set to grow 5% as opposed the earlier 8%, according to the dems this was a cut of 3% but the program was still growing. Bush sent ridiculously high budgets over to the house and they gleefully kept the money flowing. He certainly hasn't been the most spend thrift Pres. But surely you can't place all the blame at Bush's feet. The culture of the 90's had more to do with that than Bush's 9 months in office before it all came to a screaching halt.

The war in Iraq. While highly debatable, will have some long term effects on keeping at bay those THAT WANT INNOCENT CIVILIANS TO DIE BECAUSE WE DONT SEE THINGS THEIR WAY. You're forgetting that eventually the terrorists will have to be dealt with. They're aren't going to go away. Should we let them fester for another decade and then maybe they can kill 100,000 in one shot? Or should we negotiate with them and sent them money to keep them quite? Clinton tried the 'turn the head the other way' method and look where it got us.

Oil Companies. Ahh, the old Bush is paying back his croonies and Halibuton is getting rich tactic. How about the environmentalists preventing the construction of ONE SINGLE NEW OIL REFINERY in this country since the late 70's? Think that might have some affect on the price of gas? The Gulf of Mexico is getting hit with a hurricane this week, the refineries are shutting down. Gas is up! One refinery has a fire and closes for 3 days, the price of oil is up. Hmmm, maybe we should build a few new refineries the help ease the burden. No way, not here, it might hurt the spotted squirrel.

Typical liberal rants without any solutions other than Bush lied. Time to face the facts, the democrats had control of house and senate for 40 years prior to 1994, with Presidents in half of those years. Do you think those policies might have had some bearing on the state of our nation today? Education, Health Care, Economy, Terrorists. You name it. Sure Bush has had screw ups but how else do expect to undo decades of abuse by the big government/you're not responsible for your own well-being mentality of the Democrats?

You are up in the night if you think the U.S. is a leader in educational spending.

 

[blingair]

Name calling isn't usually my way of doing things, but this guy just grates on my last nerve. If you're going to complain about something, then offer a solution. Otherwise, you need to just shut up and let the big boys handle things. Traumahawk has yet to offer any intelligence to this debate at all. All he does is repeat the Micky Moore mantra.



You also did not answer the question. The question was: "If Iraq is such a mess, how do we fix it?" Talking about your opinion that Americans are elitist and imperialistic isn't going to fix the problem. Again, what is your solution for Iraq? Traumahawk will obviously not answer the question, so I'll take an answer from any liberal. I have yet to hear any liberal offer a solution to this problem that they perceive we have. I don't want to hear your opinions on how Bush lied, or about bad intelligence, or about the Downing Street memo. I've heard the liberal party line about that enough already. I want to hear what you think should be done within Iraq specifically. Can no liberal answer this question?

Bush has painted us into a corner. There are no easy answers to fix this mess. He who comes up with one with become the supreme leader for a long time. PCL have you ever been in the military? Maybe you should put your life where your mouth is and join up. PFCs make as much as a starting regional f/o.

 

[Smacktard]

You are up in the night if you think the U.S. is a leader in educational spending.

Check your facts, you've been duped by ignorance. For 2004, the United States leads the world in education spending, with $11,480 per student on public and private schooling at all level.

 

[blingair]

People die in war. It isn't pretty, but it is what it is. I'd rather 2000 soldiers die in Iraq than 2 million innocent civilians die in a nuclear explosion in downtown New York. If we run and hide from the terrorists, then that's exactly what will happen. We have to take the fight to them, and thankfully we have a President that understands that.



Actually, on domestic policy there are plenty of things that I can criticize the Bush administration for. On foreign policy and the war on terror however, the Bush administration has been right on target.



Conservative Democrat? There hasn't been such a thing in 50 years.

So sad, so lost. In regards to terrorism it was in our best interest to keep Saddam in power since he created a positive pressure in his country and killed/kept out anyone who would want to share power ie:muslim extremist. Saddam was much too secular to put up with the religous wackos. And to answer your weak excuse about no liberals having the answer to the war: no one does jacka$$. Its not that kind of war. I am a Republican and I think for my self. You should try it too if you have the balls.

 

[PCL_128]

In regards to terrorism it was in our best interest to keep Saddam in power since he created a posisitve pressure in his country and killed/kept out anyone who would want to share power

You think much too short-term. The President is looking at the long-term here. To win the war on terror in the long-run, you have to change the basic culture in the Middle East. The only way to do that is to plant seeds of democracy. Iraq was the best venue for that, and 20 years from now you will see just how right the President was. Thank God that George Bush and our armed forces aren't the cowards that you libs are.

 

[Smacktard]

Hey Tard, have you seen the approval ratings lately? Many fine Americans are getting sick and tired of the Same Ol' Sheet. Traumas not in the minority anymore.

That's because most people aren't looking to next week, let alone 5 -10 years down the road. And according the Pew Research Center "Americans are critical of President Bush's job performance in many policy areas, but negative opinions of his handling of the economy and Iraq are doing the most damage to his overall approval rating, which now stands at 43%."

I didn't realize 43% was a majority now...

The good thing about Bush and these approval ratings, he's not going to change based on an opinion survey of uneducated adults (most of whom can't name their Senators), he's not the puss-y Clinton was in changing policy everytime the wind shifted. Bush has not changed his message, that's what pisses the liberals off the most. He said it was going to be difficult, he said it would take a long time. You guys said tens of thousands would come home in body bags, you guys said it was too early to hand control over to a governing body. Wrong and wrong. Two whole years later and in that time we've seen successful elections in Afghanistan, Ukraine, the Palestinian Authority, Iraq, a renewal of the Mideast peace process, Lebanon coming around to our way of thinking and Syria trying to turn the corner. Jezzz, sounds like most folks aren't paying attention. If Clinton did all this he'd be getting a Noble Peace prize. Bush does it and you guys whine like little school girls.