Southwest's new plan to screw Airtran pilots

[SWA Bubba]

Really? We're gonna' do THIS again?

- Southwest doesn't charge for bags because of its strategy to win market share. GK says and believes that it works and that he's ahead because of it, and has numbers to show for it. See the numbers Jonjuan quoted. You don't believe the numbers? Fine; good for you. Believe what you want. However, we're all pilots, not CFOs or CEOs, so generally we have to take the word of people who do this for a living.

- Southwest CAN charge for bags if it wanted to, immediately. As dicked-up as our IT department is, this capability is there. We already charge for bags after two, and already charge for too-heavy or too-bulky bags. If you show up with only one bag, but it weighs 80lbs, the counter agent pushes a button on her computer, and presto!, you're charged for a bag. I suspect he or she could push that same button if your bag only weighed 20lbs as well, if she were instructed to.

- Airtran has been charging for bags and will continue to do so because that's their model. Obviously as Airtran gets smaller and slowly turns into Southwest, that goes away.

People expect to pay for a bag on Airtran; however they expect to NOT pay for a bag on Southwest. Besides, the revenue-to-cost structure is different between the two operations. Southwest and Airtran are still two different types of operations. Despite what General Lee bellows incessantly, you can't just snap your fingers and make them equal. Airtran is more hub-and-spoke, and apparently fly their crews and planes less efficiently. That seems to be getting even worse during the transistion, listening to Airtran guys on this board talking about their reserve manning, for example. This is the same reason GK stated as why he couldn't afford to pay SWAPA wages for Airtran flying. If Fornaro needed bag fees and lower wages to support Airtran's operations when he ran the show at stand-alone Airtran, it seems obvious that GK would need to as well. That's why Airtran is being turned into Southwest's model and not the other way around.

If you guys think you have better answers on how to run an airline, then you're wasting yourselves as mere pilots. You should start your own airline, and make CEO wages instead of just the crappy pilots' wages we make now.

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

Yet you can charge for priority boarding that gives you a free drink along with it? Are you sure about that? What about the new fees for more than 2 bags? Are you sure about your statement?


Bye Bye---General Lee

General Lee posted this while I was writing my response above! Wow, he actually said something factual about Southwest without coming across as condescending! It's probably just his Christmas present to Southwest pilots on the board....

Bubba

 

[climbhappy]

GK says and believes that it works

that's my point...he thinks it works....i chose southwest to fly from raleigh to nashville because it was direct....and it is a short leg....there are many reasons for market share growth...GK has a hunch based on his competitors doing what they do....
...as for being a CEO, just ask the guy who runs netflix about his genius move...and how it tanked his stock....you act like all pilots have no other expertise outisde the cockpit....you're wrong on that too...

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

Because Gary made a fool of himself by making such a huge deal of not charging for bags, and now he'll look like an even bigger fool if he goes back on it. He's painted himself into a corner.

PCL gets it.

 

[jonjuan]

Really? We're gonna' do THIS again?

- Southwest doesn't charge for bags because of its strategy to win market share. GK says and believes that it works and that he's ahead because of it, and has numbers to show for it. See the numbers Jonjuan quoted. You don't believe the numbers? Fine; good for you. Believe what you want. However, we're all pilots, not CFOs or CEOs, so generally we have to take the word of people who do this for a living.

Bubba

SWA Bubba (and Jonjuan) gets it.

 

[GIZMONC]

Just to set you straight on the Business select and Early Bird:
Business Select is our most rewarding, completely refundable fare. You'll receive Priority Boarding, access to our Priority Ticket Counter and Security Lanes, and a premium drink ($5 value), and maximum Rapid Rewards Points.

Add EarlyBird Check-InSM to your reservation of a Wanna Get Away Fare or Anytime Fare, and we'll take care of check-in for you. With automatic check-in, you'll get improved seat selection and earlier access to overhead storage. For only $10 one-way, it's a more convenient way to travel. NO FREE DRINK with EARLY BIRD Check-IN

We'll automatically check you in and assign your boarding position within 36 hours of your flight's departure - that's 12 hours before general boarding positions become available. While EarlyBird Check-InSM doesn't guarantee an A boarding position, it improves your seat selection options to help you get your favorite seat. AGAIN NO FREE DRINK.

Business Select A1-15, Early Bird A-16-30 and B1-60, and I have even seen it go as high as the C1-30 seats. Currently Early Bird check-in is $10.00
but going to 12.50 in early 2012 ( I think March 2013)

 

[Lear70]

AirTran is making money hand over fist right now, and because it is still marketing-separate from Southwest, can continue to do so without damaging the "Bags Fly Free" marketing campaign.

AirTran's fares came up in the 6 months after DOCC to be almost identical to Southwest fares (which were higher across the board in competing market segments), AND they kept the bag fees. The fare increases stuck (because they were still cheaper than almost everyone else out there on a regular basis), so AirTran has added a LOT to the bottom line at SWA with the bag fees. I don't see them giving that up anytime soon.

As long as they can keep brand awareness separate, it'll probably stay this way and won't change until the integration is complete and they see where the financials are when it's all combined with their newly-increased secondary fees before they do anything (and let a good amount of time pass from the "bags fly free" campaign so people don't flip out as badly).

I trust them to manage their revenue as they need to cover their expenses, that's way above my pay grade anyway, I simply expect to be compensated at the existing SWA CBA with regular increases for COLA moving forward. The cost side of the equation will continue to increase, it always does as employee longevity increases. Our job is to do our jobs 100%, their job is to manage the revenue side to cover our costs. Beyond that this debate is kind of silly... we're not management.

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

SWA Bubba (and Jonjuan) gets it.

Prove it.

 

[climbhappy]

getting it is thinking your view is the one everyone must look through....i simply offer a different viewpoint....charging for a second bag stills lets you keep the integrity of a no fee for the 1st checked bag...obviously the "bags" fly free promo has to end.....they'll be forced to do this within 2 years ......we'll see what happens...

i say again, the public has the shortest memory and attention span...advertisers know it, political strategists know it....in fact many netflix suscribers came back once "genius" changed the policy and aborted segmenting their product line ...either way, SWA is a good airline , i fly on it and plan to again when i visit my kids in the states january...cheers:beer:

 

[redflyer65]

i simply offer a different viewpoint....charging for a second bag stills lets you keep the integrity of a no fee for the 1st checked bag

Exactly. The fact is that Gary will increase the charges but still allow the First Bag Free, is brilliant.

As much as the Genital like to say we are charging for bags, we won't be. He thinks he found a nugget knocking SW, in reality, it's nothing. Bags are still flying free.

RF