Southwest Window

[General Lee]

Well, it's both.

Likewise, you won't get hired at DAL without the ol' college degree. You can always take that 737 type rating elsewhere, just like a degree, even if you're not hired at SWA. I'm not saying that I agree with their requirement for the qualification, just that I don't see it as PFT.

For those who said, they were "hired" without the rating - that's a bit disingenuous. They were given a "contingent job offer", unless they were given their DOH before attaining the type rating.

Having a college degree doesn't save DL money.... A type for SWA does.... That is the difference, and why getting the type is PFT.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Well, I had to cover my hotel for part of my time in training at DAL. Did I PFT? I saved Delta some money while I was in training, right?

Believe me, I was glad to get the complimentary type rating for the price of a hotel room.

In either case, we just see it differently. Is requiring a 737 type a sheisty move? Yeah. But I don't see it as PFT - that's all. I don't expect you to change your mind about it either.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Having a college degree doesn't save DL money.... A type for SWA does.... That is the difference, and why getting the type is PFT.



Bye Bye---General Lee

How about you having to buy your own ATP, General? It wasn't required by the FAA, but your employer made you buy it yourself anyway (not to mention your college degree) just to apply. By your reasoning, that's PFT too, right?

Yeah, yeah, I know--you didn't let him put it in quite as far. Good for you. :0

And for the record, an applicant having a type rating doesn't really save Southwest any money. Non-typed folks (Morris and AirTran) got it simultaneously with their required PC in initial training. Two more maneuvers in the same, already-paid-for simulator block, and one extra piece of paper.

Got another argument? An actual argument?

Bubba

 

[General Lee]

How about you having to buy your own ATP, General? It wasn't required by the FAA, but your employer made you buy it yourself anyway (not to mention your college degree) just to apply. By your reasoning, that's PFT too, right?

Yeah, yeah, I know--you didn't let him put it in quite as far. Good for you. :0

And for the record, an applicant having a type rating doesn't really save Southwest any money. Non-typed folks (Morris and AirTran) got it simultaneously with their required PC in initial training. Two more maneuvers in the same, already-paid-for simulator block, and one extra piece of paper.

Got another argument? An actual argument?

Bubba

It still costs $6-7000 for some applicants, and there isn't even a guarantee that if you buy it prior you will get the job. In fact, if an applicant for any other airline already has a 737 type, that is a hint he/ she may have been turned down at the Corndog, making it interesting when getting asked multiple questions at that other interview. That's an extra thank you slap from the Corndog after getting turned down... Is that the same if you bust your ATP? I bet it's easier to explain an ATP bust than a paid for 737 type with no time on it. Explain Bubba how the multitude of guys/gals turned down by the Corny in the past decade explain that to future interviewers? Yet another bad reason Bubba. What do you say to the unsuccessful applicants?

It's just bad for the industry, and you guys just can't admit it. You justify it, which is sad...



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SWA Bubba]

It still costs $6-7000 for some applicants, and there isn't even a guarantee that if you buy it prior you will get the job. In fact, if an applicant for any other airline already has a 737 type, that is a hint he/ she may have been turned down at the Corndog, making it interesting when getting asked multiple questions at that other interview. That's an extra thank you slap from the Corndog after getting turned down... Is that the same if you bust your ATP? I bet it's easier to explain an ATP bust than a paid for 737 type with no time on it. Explain Bubba how the multitude of guys/gals turned down by the Corny in the past decade explain that to future interviewers? Yet another bad reason Bubba. What do you say to the unsuccessful applicants?



Bye Bye---General Lee

Good God, General, were you drunk when you posted this rambling, incoherent excuse for a reply? You didn't actually address anything that has to do with my post.

Yes, you're correct in that there's no guarantee that you'll get hired by Southwest if you buy a type rating. True enough. But there's also no guarantee that you'll get hired by Delta if you buy an ATP rating (not to mention a college degree), now is there? You obtain the minimum requirements for whatever airline you want to apply to, and take your chances in an interview.

And I have no idea "what to tell an unsuccessful applicant"; I'm not an interviewer. However, lots of guys have interviewed at more than one airline, not got hired at one (including Southwest), but later hired at another. Do you really think that airline hiring boards/interviewers really don't know that their applicants interview at numerous airlines in addition to their own? Trust me, they're not as dumb as you.

So, is that really what you're going to use as a PFT argument now? You're slipping, General.

Bubba

 

[JT12345]

The average difference between SWACA and SWAFO is only 26-27%. Probably one the lowest on type in the industry.

There is a much larger disparity on Type at other airlines at 40-60%, but that is not as much when it is wide body FO vs. narrow body CA.

Upgrades are not everything especially as you get older and/or more longevity.

There seems to be a huge difference in pay at Southwest with seniority and living in base that blows away aircraft size pay increases at most airlines. The money seems very good. There is also a lot less socialism limits on how much money u can make at SWA. Fek. I make more than most narrow body FOs at AAI already. The lack of socialist restrictions here at AAI helps if you like to work.

_______________________

As for being at a real major wait till the public gets upset at the profits, and the government starts getting involved again or that lack there of by letting foreign carriers compete more to the US.



All those 100s of 777s and A380/350s being delivered for Asian and Middle East Carriers. Guess where they want to go!

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I don't know why you are arguing this. He is right. The 737 type requirement is not industry standard. It is a burdensome expense on those who want to work for SW but don't have the type already. And it may cause SW to overlook terrific candidates who simply can't afford to invest the time or money in the type.

Whether or not it is PFT is irrelevant. I paid $10,000 for the privilege of flying a Jetstream for Chautauqua in 1996 and it hasn't harmed my career. (I do that pretty well on my own). Sure wish I didn't have to do it though!

I don't know why the type requirement exists but I think we can all agree that it should be retired. Here's the catch. Nobody asked us what we thought. The company has no incentive to end the requirement. There are still plenty of people lined up every time a window opens.

I think the laws of supply and demand will have to address this particular business practice.

 

[slaquer5]

It still costs $6-7000 for some applicants, and there isn't even a guarantee that if you buy it prior you will get the job. In fact, if an applicant for any other airline already has a 737 type, that is a hint he/ she may have been turned down at the Corndog, making it interesting when getting asked multiple questions at that other interview. That's an extra thank you slap from the Corndog after getting turned down... Is that the same if you bust your ATP? I bet it's easier to explain an ATP bust than a paid for 737 type with no time on it. Explain Bubba how the multitude of guys/gals turned down by the Corny in the past decade explain that to future interviewers? Yet another bad reason Bubba. What do you say to the unsuccessful applicants?

It's just bad for the industry, and you guys just can't admit it. You justify it, which is sad...



Bye Bye---General Lee

It is all making sense now .

 

[PCL_128]

I don't know why you are arguing this.

Because that's what the SWAholes around here do. Apparently your indoctrination didn't quite take. Whatever SWA does, you have to defend it to the death. Doesn't matter how wrong or stupid it is. If SWA does it, it's perfect.

I think the laws of supply and demand will have to address this particular business practice.

Nah, SWAPA should address it in bargaining. It's a disgrace that SWAPA hasn't done something to end this by now.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

And for the record, an applicant having a type rating doesn't really save Southwest any money. Non-typed folks (Morris and AirTran) got it simultaneously with their required PC in initial training. Two more maneuvers in the same, already-paid-for simulator block, and one extra piece of paper.

Bubba

Then what is the rationale for requiring, specifically, a B-737 type rating?

A B757/767 type rating will not suffice, nor a DC-9 (MD-80), or an A320 type either. One would imagine that being typed on a similar aircraft would be an equal prediction of success, no? So, if it is not a financial advantage, nor a predictor of success - then what is it? A 737 fetish?