SouthWest to buy Jetblue?

[madjack]

Our former VP of something is director of Flt-ops at JB (I think)...

 

[pilotpayne]

What would DAL do? There is no way the DOJ/DOT would approve a DAL/JB combo. And AA will have their hands full with a US integration for the next several years. Perfect time for SWA to make a move.

If SWA wanted to build BOS what gates would they use? Same with FLL?

I would expect amr dal or united to bid up the price. If dal let go some JFK slots they could pull it off.
But who knows if this amr/lcc thing goes I doubt the doj will let any other mergers go.
I still think we stay blue, but if swa wants to buy us keep us and pay us swa rates that's fine with me.

 

[PropPiedmont]

...but if swa wants to buy us keep us and pay us swa rates that's fine with me.

That's what the AT guys said before it all happened.

 

[redflyer65]

We had Airtran guys on this board begging for a purchase and a staple. That changed quickly.

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

I would suggest taking the first offer.

Now that right there is funny! An offer can only be extended to someone who has the ability to accept or decline it. As JetBlue pilots, we have neither.

Send in a card. Tell your friends to send in a card.

"In business, you don't get what you deserve. You get what you negotiate."

 

[HowardBorden]

If I had to guess I would say the next time SWA considers purchasing an airline the deal would be structured as an asset purchase only, keeping the pieces it wants and selling those that it doesn't.

 

[pilotpayne]

If I had to guess I would say the next time SWA considers purchasing an airline the deal would be structured as an asset purchase only, keeping the pieces it wants and selling those that it doesn't.

Yup on our board the swa plan is to take the 320s and the pilots and sell the 190s with its pilots....now oddly enough this only comes from bus guys.
I guess big bad swa who is not having any problems of its own will just slide in and kill blue.....

 

[ArmadilloJackal]

Many bus guys despise the 190 and blame it for stagnation, most refuse to admit how much growth it's responsible for and that it actually makes money - even with the engine maintenance mismanagement this year. Boston would be nowhere near what it is now and we wouldn't serve many of our markets if we had only 320's or 319's. Who was it that posted that SWA did a study and determined that the 190 was the only airplane that was profitable on certain city pairs? I have no idea if it's true or not, but it's plausible. But hey, if fragmentation fears keep inflating my artificial seniority on the 190, I'll take it. Weekends off and no red eyes works for me. Now arguing if we could be fragmented with our PEA's, yeah absolutely IMO, I just don't think it makes sense.

 

[pilotpayne]

Many bus guys despise the 190 and blame it for stagnation, most refuse to admit how much growth it's responsible for and that it actually makes money - even with the engine maintenance mismanagement this year. Boston would be nowhere near what it is now and we wouldn't serve many of our markets if we had only 320's or 319's. Who was it that posted that SWA did a study and determined that the 190 was the only airplane that was profitable on certain city pairs? I have no idea if it's true or not, but it's plausible. But hey, if fragmentation fears keep inflating my artificial seniority on the 190, I'll take it. Weekends off and no red eyes works for me. Now arguing if we could be fragmented with our PEA's, yeah absolutely IMO, I just don't think it makes sense.

Who knows with the pea's but they would have to fragment out of seniority.
The 190 has its place unless the high and might bus guys want to do the dca ewr phl shuttle flights or sju to stt or sxm.

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

Many bus guys despise the 190 and blame it for stagnation, most refuse to admit how much growth it's responsible for and that it actually makes money - even with the engine maintenance mismanagement this year. Boston would be nowhere near what it is now and we wouldn't serve many of our markets if we had only 320's or 319's. Who was it that posted that SWA did a study and determined that the 190 was the only airplane that was profitable on certain city pairs? I have no idea if it's true or not, but it's plausible. But hey, if fragmentation fears keep inflating my artificial seniority on the 190, I'll take it. Weekends off and no red eyes works for me. Now arguing if we could be fragmented with our PEA's, yeah absolutely IMO, I just don't think it makes sense.

This is simply not true. I have been on the A320 for 9 years and don't know anyone who despises the E190 or blames it (or its crews) for anything. Your opinion is just that.......an opinion. The E190 serves a purpose and has helped JetBlue. If anyone is to blame for any negative aspects of the E190, it is Embraer. The plane simply wasn't operating as advertised and the manufacturer is responsible.

 

[B6Busdriver]

Many bus guys despise the 190 and blame it for stagnation, most refuse to admit how much growth it's responsible for and that it actually makes money - even with the engine maintenance mismanagement this year. Boston would be nowhere near what it is now and we wouldn't serve many of our markets if we had only 320's or 319's. Who was it that posted that SWA did a study and determined that the 190 was the only airplane that was profitable on certain city pairs? I have no idea if it's true or not, but it's plausible. But hey, if fragmentation fears keep inflating my artificial seniority on the 190, I'll take it. Weekends off and no red eyes works for me. Now arguing if we could be fragmented with our PEA's, yeah absolutely IMO, I just don't think it makes sense.

Great talking points Bluebell. You make a great sheep, Dave loves you!

 

[B6Busdriver]

Who knows with the pea's but they would have to fragment out of seniority.
The 190 has its place unless the high and might bus guys want to do the dca ewr phl shuttle flights or sju to stt or sxm.

High and mighty??? Let's see I've flown BOS-DCA on the bus. I've flown BOS-PHL on the bus. I've flown BOS-EWR on the bus. I've done 5 legs in one day multiple times, yes it was scheduled. Some of you 190 guys have a real inferiority complex.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

LGA/JFK...JFK/EWR...EWR/JFK....bus.

 

[humveedriver]

A more likely scenerio would be SWA waiting for JetBlue to fall on hard times and go after the gates and routes in SJU. ATA style. The AT integration is far from text book. Adding JetBlue right now is clearly beyond their scope, outside of running the airline seperately. That's just being realistic. But the company will do whatever they want.

 

[pilotpayne]

High and mighty??? Let's see I've flown BOS-DCA on the bus. I've flown BOS-PHL on the bus. I've flown BOS-EWR on the bus. I've done 5 legs in one day multiple times, yes it was scheduled. Some of you 190 guys have a real inferiority complex.

I don't have an inferiority complex.
I like the flying as I like short hops.
I know you guys fly short legs but are all of your pairings like that?( don't think so) Just saying from reading blue pilots where the 190 is to blame for everything(ask scud he has a whole rant) to a few of the bus guys I have talked to about when are you coming over to a real plane or how is it at JetBlue express. The best is still the bus guys go with the planes to whatever major buys us while the 190 guys go to republic. I guess I just feel inferior.
Don't get me wrong I don't hate bus guys and the high and mighty was a sarcastic joke we are a mainly east coast airline so I thought most would get that.

 

[B6Busdriver]

I don't have an inferiority complex.
I like the flying as I like short hops.
I know you guys fly short legs but are all of your pairings like that?( don't think so) Just saying from reading blue pilots where the 190 is to blame for everything(ask scud he has a whole rant) to a few of the bus guys I have talked to about when are you coming over to a real plane or how is it at JetBlue express. The best is still the bus guys go with the planes to whatever major buys us while the 190 guys go to republic. I guess I just feel inferior.
Don't get me wrong I don't hate bus guys and the high and mighty was a sarcastic joke we are a mainly east coast airline so I thought most would get that.

Scud has never made his issues with the 190 personal. The 190 has fallen WAY short of forecasted costs and reliability. Does that reflect poorly on 190 pilots? Absolutely not! We are all JetBlue pilots plain and simple.

Every cost metric on the 190 is much much higher than what was ever anticipated. Management will never admit the 190 was a mistake, however capping orders as they have ought to say something. Push come to shove buying 319's would probably have been the more prudent thing to do. But that's like saying the Red Sox should have never "sold" Babe Ruth....we'll never know!

 

[scoreboardII]

Capping orders is probably a polite way of saying "setting themselves up for purchase without liabilities".

 

[pilotpayne]

Scud has never made his issues with the 190 personal. The 190 has fallen WAY short of forecasted costs and reliability. Does that reflect poorly on 190 pilots? Absolutely not! We are all JetBlue pilots plain and simple.

Every cost metric on the 190 is much much higher than what was ever anticipated. Management will never admit the 190 was a mistake, however capping orders as they have ought to say something. Push come to shove buying 319's would probably have been the more prudent thing to do. But that's like saying the Red Sox should have never "sold" Babe Ruth....we'll never know!

Good points.

 

[Smarta$$]

Great talking points Bluebell. You make a great sheep, Dave loves you!

You're an A-hole.

 

[ArmadilloJackal]

Great talking points Bluebell. You make a great sheep, Dave loves you!

Don't take thinking the 190 has a place in the company for me supporting our PEA, they are completely separate issues. I'm not sure you actually read the last part of my post where I stated I think we could be fragmented or worse. I just don't think it makes sense from a market standpoint. May I suggest a little tact though. If you treat supporters like this, how must you treat those on the fence. You have no idea who I am, and would probably be surprised.

 

[pilotpayne]

Don't take thinking the 190 has a place in the company for me supporting our PEA, they are completely separate issues. I'm not sure you actually read the last part of my post where I stated I think we could be fragmented or worse. I just don't think it makes sense from a market standpoint. May I suggest a little tact though. If you treat supporters like this, how must you treat those on the fence. You have no idea who I am, and would probably be surprised.

They really don't get that.
I am for a cba but reading what this guys spew can be really sad.
You are with them or not no middle jetblue sucks and all hail ALPA.

Once again so I don't get beat up I am pro cba

 

[TXDanno]

... after disregarding the agreed
upon mediation and arbitration!

IIRC, the mediation and arbitration were not disregarded, the process just never got there.

Mediation and then possibly arbitration would have come into play if a negotiated settlement could not be reached. Both unions' memberships voted on the second offer presented, and reached the proverbial negotiated agreement. This ended the negotiation process before arbitration or even mediation could have come into play.

Both sides had the power to move the process down the road into mediation and then arbitration. They did not, by about 85% vs 15%.

 

[27 driver]

IIRC, the mediation and arbitration were not disregarded, the process just never got there.

Mediation and then possibly arbitration would have come into play if a negotiated settlement could not be reached. Both unions' memberships voted on the second offer presented, and reached the proverbial negotiated agreement. This ended the negotiation process before arbitration or even mediation could have come into play.

Both sides had the power to move the process down the road into mediation and then arbitration. They did not, by about 85% vs 15%.

One side was threatened with non-integration....the other was not. When your job and livelihood are at stake it changes things. If GK had not made those threats I think it would have been different.

 

[scoreboardII]

Interesting, worst case, those guys would be going with the 717 to Delta right now, with an upgrade time half of SWA's.

 

[kommutrdog]

Now that right there is funny! An offer can only be extended to someone who has the ability to accept or decline it. As JetBlue pilots, we have neither.

Send in a card. Tell your friends to send in a card.

"In business, you don't get what you deserve. You get what you negotiate."

Bump. Because it needs to be said again.

 

[Skank]

Now that right there is funny! An offer can only be extended to someone who has the ability to accept or decline it. As JetBlue pilots, we have neither.

Send in a card. Tell your friends to send in a card.

"In business, you don't get what you deserve. You get what you negotiate."

We have the ability to be shocked, ashamed, pissed, whatever, when we are told to go to bed without dinner....you're right, we have nothing really, that can't be withdrawn/changed/prestidigitated out of existence at anytime.

 

[aeolian]

That's a good point. It sure worked out well for USAir and America West in their smoothly-executed SLI, both being good ALPA carriers and all. That case was certainly a stunning argument for how well it works when you have a "single union representing both carriers."

By the way, McCaskell-Bond applies in every case, regardless of who represents the carriers' employees.

Bubba

bubba....in case you've been sleeping...juries still out

this sh#t requires thought...and an honest look in the mirror...not our strong suit I know, but whats required nonetheless

 

[SWA Bubba]

bubba....in case you've been sleeping...juries still out

this sh#t requires thought...and an honest look in the mirror...not our strong suit I know, but whats required nonetheless

I beg to differ-- while the final seniority list outcome hasn't been determined yet, the "jury" most certainly HAS returned with a verdict of, "this is the most dicked-up, ugly, and hateful SLI ever." That was the point we were discussing: that having the "same national union" means nothing when it comes to how smoothly or fairly a SLI may or may not go.

Bubba

 

[General Lee]

I beg to differ-- while the final seniority list outcome hasn't been determined yet, the "jury" most certainly HAS returned with a verdict of, "this is the most dicked-up, ugly, and hateful SLI ever." That was the point we were discussing: that having the "same national union" means nothing when it comes to how smoothly or fairly a SLI may or may not go.

Bubba

Bubba,

What you fail to recognize is what a "binding arbitration award" means. Even sides in the same union should have integrity to follow something they signed up for. It worked for the DL/NWA groups. The US Easties even agreed to the arbitrator in question beforehand. Don't blame the union, blame the group who signed up and then disregarded the award. When you sign up for something Bubba, do you think you should honor that?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[pilotyip]

got another one that fits right in here, FedEx is going to buy USA Jet. Just think enter into a new market segments, instant shipments, and any size.