Southwest to build new international terminal at HOU

[FlyinGuy]

Way to show that home town support and bail to Chicago!!

 

[scoreboardII]

notice the flop doesn't answer that side of the equation, which will be long remembered by HOU.

 

[Flopgut]

notice the flop doesn't answer that side of the equation, which will be long remembered by HOU.

It was a real bad deal, I wish we didn't change headquarters. I think it was a mistake. But the mayor made the wrong decision as well. I also don't think us changing headquarters elevates your operation at all (how do you think it does?). United is still, and has been for decades, one of Houston's largest employers. SWA has claimed a 10,000 job increase will result from this and I believe the city will hold you to that. I know this: former CAL Houstonians will be watching this close. If the new FIS slows down IAH FIS, if the 1.6 billion doesn't happen, or the jobs don't materialize that SWA promised, OR if South American and domestic carriers that want the same sort of access to Hobby facilities that CAL made available at IAH for competing carriers, then the mayor/city needs to answer and make changes.

 

[Flopgut]

You know why we "thumbed our noses" at the empty international gates at IAH. Do I have to repeat the explanation about all of our passengers being at Hobby, and forcing them to get across town to IAH to connect to international? While yours are already there? How about, just for once, YOU address that, Flop? And explain how that can be a fair competition?

Ok. You made a bad business decision. Using Hobby was short sighted. Why should everyone have to adjust to Southwest's bad decision? You basically admitted as much in the final language of the fix to the WA in Dallas [Secondary airport should not have international flights]. You don't have so much down there that you couldn't have easily moved the whole thing to IAH. Yeah, the 50 million [parking garage] is coming from PFCs etc, but it's money that would have gone a lot further at IAH. It's resources being squandered. What's the end play here? $200 million or so and a lot of ongoing expense to duplicate facilities already available? All so you don't have to compete directly with anybody?! ORD has UAL and AMR. That's what should have happened at IAH.

You just don't want to put the corndog next to our airplanes. Pure and simple.

 

[ofacegangsta]

That has to be it. You'll never see a corndog in DIA for that very reason.

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

I am sure tHe Houston flying public would like a choice of International airports especially the people who live down south. The traffic around Houston is dense and to try and cross the city at any time (especially rush hour) is a nightmare. The city is big enough to have two international airports - one large and one small,

 

[HowardBorden]

That precedent led to some FAA rule that former Houston Mayor White used to assure Continental that all the money we [CAL] sunk into IAH would keep it a level playing field.

Never mind, just not worth it.

 

[Sacha]

I'm surprised Frank Lorenzo didn't crawl out from under his rock and publicly support Continental and decry their abandonment of Houston. After all, his love and legacy of Continental and all their dedicated employees is a Shining Chapter in Aviation history.

Idiots who don't know, or don't care about History, particularly their own, should STFU....

 

[SWA Bubba]

Ok. You made a bad business decision. Using Hobby was short sighted. Why should everyone have to adjust to Southwest's bad decision? You basically admitted as much in the final language of the fix to the WA in Dallas [Secondary airport should not have international flights]. You don't have so much down there that you couldn't have easily moved the whole thing to IAH. Yeah, the 50 million [parking garage] is coming from PFCs etc, but it's money that would have gone a lot further at IAH. It's resources being squandered. What's the end play here? $200 million or so and a lot of ongoing expense to duplicate facilities already available? All so you don't have to compete directly with anybody?! ORD has UAL and AMR. That's what should have happened at IAH.

You just don't want to put the corndog next to our airplanes. Pure and simple.

You seem to be losing it now, Flop. I suggest you try to let it go.

We didn't make any such "bad business decision." Hobby works great for us domestically, and it will work great for us internationally. We admitted nothing of the sort about Dallas and the Wright Amendment. Even though that piece of sh1t, partisan, protectionist document is finally essentially going away, you're still using it against Southwest as a punchline. Nice.

The fact is, that the WA was essentially an unconstitutional writ of attainder. Look that up, Flop. After losing in every court in the land, multiple times, American finally got their paid-for politician (Rep Jim Wright (D-Ft Worth)) to stick it in an unrelated bill, so that American could finally get their way and have an enforced monopoly. The 2006 compromise that finally rid us of this unfair yoke included that "no international from DAL" stipulation, because it was the only way to get it done. Do you think we wanted to be barred from international flying out of DAL? No. We didn't want that. But we wanted to remain shackled to only Texas' surrounding states even less. That's the only reason for that tidbit. But I'm sure you knew that as well.

As far as your moronic statement about not wanting to compete with you directly ("corndogs next to [your] airplanes"), I think Ofacegangsta said it best. Or in one word, Flop: "Denver."

Again, how about YOU fly out of airports that YOU want to, and WE'LL fly out of airports that WE want to. It's pretty simple, really. Why do you seem afraid to do that? You know, you don't see us trying to tell you how to run your business model. How come you keep trying to make us follow your model? Who does that make look worried now?

Bubba

 

[CA Calypso]

Ok. You made a bad business decision. Using Hobby was short sighted. Why should everyone have to adjust to Southwest's bad decision? You basically admitted as much in the final language of the fix to the WA in Dallas [Secondary airport should not have international flights]. You don't have so much down there that you couldn't have easily moved the whole thing to IAH. Yeah, the 50 million [parking garage] is coming from PFCs etc, but it's money that would have gone a lot further at IAH. It's resources being squandered. What's the end play here? $200 million or so and a lot of ongoing expense to duplicate facilities already available? All so you don't have to compete directly with anybody?! ORD has UAL and AMR. That's what should have happened at IAH.

You just don't want to put the corndog next to our airplanes. Pure and simple.

ORD has MDW as well. New York has three major airports. SoCal has five airports, and NorCal has three with competing service. Really, what is your point? Your posts are written with the emotion of a scorned teenage girl...

 

[Flopgut]

You seem to be losing it now, Flop. I suggest you try to let it go.

We didn't make any such "bad business decision." Hobby works great for us domestically, and it will work great for us internationally. We admitted nothing of the sort about Dallas and the Wright Amendment. Even though that piece of sh1t, partisan, protectionist document is finally essentially going away, you're still using it against Southwest as a punchline. Nice.

The fact is, that the WA was essentially an unconstitutional writ of attainder. Look that up, Flop. After losing in every court in the land, multiple times, American finally got their paid-for politician (Rep Jim Wright (D-Ft Worth)) to stick it in an unrelated bill, so that American could finally get their way and have an enforced monopoly. The 2006 compromise that finally rid us of this unfair yoke included that "no international from DAL" stipulation, because it was the only way to get it done. Do you think we wanted to be barred from international flying out of DAL? No. We didn't want that. But we wanted to remain shackled to only Texas' surrounding states even less. That's the only reason for that tidbit. But I'm sure you knew that as well.

Again, how about YOU fly out of airports that YOU want to, and WE'LL fly out of airports that WE want to. It's pretty simple, really. Why do you seem afraid to do that? You know, you don't see us trying to tell you how to run your business model. How come you keep trying to make us follow your model? Who does that make look worried now?

Yeah Bubba, let's finish this up. It's real simple: If it was right to keep Braniff out of Love 40 years ago on a technicality, then it would have been no less the right thing to do than to not allow you to fly international out of Hobby now. CAL's rational and protections were far more durable than the BS reason you got Braniff thrown out of Love. Stop the "you fly out of the airport you want to and we'll fly out of the airport we want to" BS because 40 years ago you were saying the opposite. SWA has had a lot of help getting to where you are. More than any other airline ever has. It's BS. It's not a free market, and someday it will end.

 

[CA Calypso]

Yeah Bubba, let's finish this up. It's real simple: If it was right to keep Braniff out of Love 40 years ago on a technicality, then it would have been no less the right thing to do than to not allow you to fly international out of Hobby now. CAL's rational and protections were far more durable than the BS reason you got Braniff thrown out of Love. Stop the "you fly out of the airport you want to and we'll fly out of the airport we want to" BS because 40 years ago you were saying the opposite. SWA has had a lot of help getting to where you are. More than any other airline ever has. It's BS. It's not a free market, and someday it will end.

Oh the irony, a UNICAL pilot claiming another airline "had a lot of help!" It is certainly not a free market - BR has allowed many an airline "get a lot of help..."

 

[SWA Bubba]

Yeah Bubba, let's finish this up. It's real simple: If it was right to keep Braniff out of Love 40 years ago on a technicality, then it would have been no less the right thing to do than to not allow you to fly international out of Hobby now. CAL's rational and protections were far more durable than the BS reason you got Braniff thrown out of Love. Stop the "you fly out of the airport you want to and we'll fly out of the airport we want to" BS because 40 years ago you were saying the opposite. SWA has had a lot of help getting to where you are. More than any other airline ever has. It's BS. It's not a free market, and someday it will end.

What the hell are you talking about, Flop? How exactly did Southwest get Braniff "thrown out" of Love? We did no such thing. Braniff, who played a big part in pushing for the building of DFW, signed the same agreement as the other majors to move to DFW, before Southwest even existed. They then did, in fact, happily move to DFW in 1974. Then, and only after Southwest began interstate flying from Love in 1978, other carriers, including Braniff, came and went to/from Love as they desired, often splitting their service between the two airports, for either competition or spite, depending on your point of view. So exactly what interference from Southwest are you alleging? We did nothing. Braniff went out of business in 1982 due to (according to Wikipedia) over-expansion and the price of fuel. However, up to that point, they flew out whatever airport they wanted, including Love Field, when they wanted to.

And while we're at it, what is this "more help than any other airline" crap that you're babbling about? Name it. You're not one of those moron revisionist historians who like to pretend that the Wright Amendment was somehow "negotiated" by Southwest for their benefit, are you? Tell me, Flop, who has helped us, "more than any other airline"? What "special deals" or help did we got that no other airline got?

Was it the other Texas airlines, who sued us frivolously, time and again, to keep us from ever flying in the first place? Is that the "help" you're talking about? Was it three Texas airlines who were found guilty in criminal court (that's criminal, not civil court) of collusion and obstruction in their illegal attempts to kill us? (In case you're keeping score Flop, those airlines who have a criminal record were Texas International, Braniff, and your own beloved Continental.) Was it American Airlines who helped us, along with DFW airport, by running another round of frivolous lawsuits in 1978 when we began to fly interstate? Was it US Rep Wright who helped us in 1979, by sneaking a writ of attainder against Southwest (the Wright Amendment) into unrelated legislation, after every court in the land had sided with Southwest? 'Cause if that's the kind of help you're referring to, I think we'd have preferred to do without.

You should stop just relying on your airline's PR talking points, and do some actual rudimentary research.

Bubba

 

[Flopgut]

And while we're at it, what is this "more help than any other airline" crap that you're babbling about? Name it. You're not one of those moron revisionist historians who like to pretend that the Wright Amendment was somehow "negotiated" by Southwest for their benefit, are you? Tell me, Flop, who has helped us, "more than any other airline"? What "special deals" or help did we got that no other airline got?

Perfect recent example: CAL UAL merger. Almost zero overlap. There was no reason to strip the combined airline of anything. However in order to get the deal approved, slots and a gate had to be given to Southwest. No other airline was considered as maybe needing to get something out of the deal. Just Southwest.

What SWA finally had to sign to end the WA was very much damage control on the airline's part. If the cases you speak of were being adjudicated today I think the outcomes would be a lot different. (In view of the entire history of the WA) Why a precedent that very specifically means two FIS may not be constructed in certain cities (where a very large single airport exists) has been thrown out to give you the advantage is just another example. Especially in view of what you were eager to sign in Dallas.

It's not over here in Houston. The Countries you want to fly to are going to take exception with the fact that their carriers can't get equal access to Hobby. So you're going to probably need more help keeping competition out of there. I would imagine your plan involves something like IAH having to make even more cheap space available in place of you giving equal access to Hobby. I don't know for sure. We'll see.

I'm done, getting busy. Have a good summer Bubba

 

[Double Shot]

You know bubba,

I was at Cal during the time period when you allege this fight happened btw cal and swa. All I can say is your crazy. There were never flights btw hou and cle every hour. And when the rj flew btw iah and dal I would not have called it killing swa. If it did why is an rj still doing the flying and not something else. I understand your frustration. You fly for crappy management and are on a losing team. That's one of the big reason s why I left. That and flying with scabs.

 

[SWA Bubba]

You know bubba,

I was at Cal during the time period when you allege this fight happened btw cal and swa. All I can say is your crazy. There were never flights btw hou and cle every hour. And when the rj flew btw iah and dal I would not have called it killing swa. If it did why is an rj still doing the flying and not something else. I understand your frustration. You fly for crappy management and are on a losing team. That's one of the big reason s why I left. That and flying with scabs.

I think that your comment was to have been directed at Flopgut, not me, Doubleshot.

Bubba

 

[Double Shot]

Whoops

Your right bubba it was directed at flop. You were making too much sense on this issue

 

[scoreboardII]

It's not over here in Houston. The Countries you want to fly to are going to take exception with the fact that their carriers can't get equal access to Hobby. So you're going to probably need more help keeping competition out of there. I would imagine your plan involves something like IAH having to make even more cheap space available in place of you giving equal access to Hobby. I don't know for sure. We'll see.

Lets investigate the true impact of your bolded statement.

You say you want, or at least foreign carriers will want to have more access to HOU?

OK, and once they do, which they do have an open gate to do it as soon as our three are open, and room for growth, who do you think those passengers will fly on?

Certainly not UAL. Think about that... Be careful what you wish for. Your arguments of late can't beat themselves out of a wet paper sack.

 

[Double Shot]

Double post

 

[tankerhead]

Wrestling a pig, while amusing for spectators (and the pig) is a waste of time.