Southwest looking to contain costs - article

[waveflyer]

I'll be in Vegas
But don't knock the bay
Oakland's one of the most interesting places I've ever lived and it is booming right now

 

[Ty Webb]

I'll be in Vegas
But don't knock the bay
Oakland's one of the most interesting places I've ever lived and it is booming right now

I know....pay for OAK, view SFO....

 

[humveedriver]

Awesome point Dicko.

It shows how Southwest shared in the wealth and SWAPA was able to secure much, much better payrates while AirTran languished with the bad management team and dysfunctional union. None of that is your fault personally, just the landscape you had deal with at the time. Complete opposite at SW.

SWA just had a record profit sharing quarter. Why is SWA management asking for concessions in the form of PBS, lower sick accrual and other various work rule concessions? That's cool that management gifted you a lucrative contract back then. But they certainly seem to want it back now. I don't mind you defending the SLI based on facts like the retirement numbers. But you are either talking out of both sides of your mouth. Or you are just kool aid drinking fool.

 

[waveflyer]

You know Hum, when I was first hired I remembered being surprised by the strength of the Swapa union. Never as strong as the uniquely militant would want, but much stronger than I expected. I heard stories of cats passing out united applications to new hires and calling them all kinds of numb nuts for coming to SWA back when everyone was hiring.
We do have a history of better than average working relationship with management- and that might be disappearing in the shear size of the company and corporate nature and the "not-Herb" personality of GK. But we also do have a history of negotiating and doing our thing. A bunch of outsiders are advising this negotiation. Both sides have old school alpa negotiators contracted for this round.
Their reward for going old school last time is a really tough flight attendant union.
Critique GK if you like, but the most influential board member is Mr Cunningham, and he's still a true believer in the southwest way and having an economic advantage to good employee relations. I am confident he will exert more influence if negotiations get too nasty, and having gone through many airline negotiations, ....they aren't "nasty" at all yet. They're simply being guided as predictably as we'd expect by randy Babbitt -
Nit a surprise at all.

I would be careful to assume that it's much more than posturing so that GK can delay delay and hit his 15%. It's just one part in the manipulation of spreadsheets to get to that point. Hit it. Start the growth that has been planned for some time, then we'll see where section 6 economics lays. There isn't a rush though IMO

I bet it comes around. In 2015, I get a bit more hard core. For NOW, it's a Solid no vote from every kool aid guy I've talked to. The company isn't dumb. They know what they're proposing would never pass- even an arbitrator wouldn't call their position reasonable. So why get riled up about whatever position SWA takes when it's pretty clear they're in delay mode.

 

[Tripower455]

SWA just had a record profit sharing quarter. Why is SWA management asking for concessions in the form of PBS, lower sick accrual and other various work rule concessions? That's cool that management gifted you a lucrative contract back then. But they certainly seem to want it back now. I don't mind you defending the SLI based on facts like the retirement numbers. But you are either talking out of both sides of your mouth. Or you are just kool aid drinking fool.

They offered this contract because they KNOW it will pass if they can convince the SWApA BOD to put it to a membership vote (and I'm sure there are more than a few BOD members that have NO problem with the offer, as it stands).

With few exceptions, we always vote yes, even when it's not in our best interest (which is typically the case) and they know it. The only contract that's been turned down in the nearly 2 decades I've been here took a massive grass roots effort to refute the SWApAganda campaign and educate the pilot group about what they were really voting on, and it failed by a few % points at best. Then "we" voted in a (arguably) WORSE one.

This time around, we gave away any semblance of leverage via side letters DURING Section 6. Why WOULDN'T GK and Kompany expect us to vote for whatever they offer?

Any "militancy" displayed by the Koolie crowd is all negated when, in spite of their "vote no" talk, they vote, resoundingly, "YES", and then deny doing so.

Try finding anyone that will admit that they voted for SL 10...... I rest my case.

 

[madjack]

The above two posts by Wave and Tri are both spot on...as long as we are making good $$, concessionary, a contract is a no go, heck GK, and VdV both got big pay bumps...I agree this offer is fishing/stalling...don't think it will be the final product...PBS and codeshare are the third rail, the BOD knows this...

 

[fr8doggie]

How long have you guys been in section 6? How many sections are complete? After X years did you just see the company's openers or was what I read from SWAPA after years of negotiations?

Regards,
Fr8-

 

[redflyer65]

Just a stall plain and simple. I don't believe any on the BOD would have sent it out.

 

[vixin]

You're also assuming that had we stood alone, we'd still be working under 2001CBA wages, about 8 years past the amendable date. While that may have happened, it's also as good of a chance that we'd be working for about the same rates now.

I think you may have been going out of business or bankruptcy by now. But you know what about opinions. And we will never know what AAI may have become.

 

[Dan Roman]

I think you may have been going out of business or bankruptcy by now. But you know what about opinions. And we will never know what AAI may have become.

Or SWA if the merger hadn't happened. Don't forget the domestic market has pretty much matured. It's a big step to take if SWA wanted to fly Intl. AirTran appears to have been that ticket as well as providing entry into ATL, which SWA would have been unable on it's own.
BTW, again, on one hand your trying to tell them SWA "saved" them (which is pretty silly) and then elsewhere you say it's time SWA and AirTran pilots pull together. Can't have it both ways....you want to treat them as second class citizens you get to live with the unrest you deserve.
An AirTran pilot owes nothing to SWA, and certainly not any loyalty.

 

[Dan Roman]

I'll be in Vegas
But don't knock the bay
Oakland's one of the most interesting places I've ever lived and it is booming right now

I don't quite understand why the SWA folks always say how junior OAK is? SFO is generally a senior base for airlines that have a Bay Area domicle?

 

[Tripower455]

I don't quite understand why the SWA folks always say how junior OAK is? SFO is generally a senior base for airlines that have a Bay Area domicle?

They say it because it's true. It's been the or a very junior base as long as I've been here.

 

[Dan Roman]

They say it because it's true. It's been the or a very junior base as long as I've been here.

I know, I'm not doubting you, just wondering why SFO is senior with other airlines and OAK junior with SWA. I'm not attacking, just think it's interesting.

 

[Tripower455]

I know, I'm not doubting you, just wondering why SFO is senior with other airlines and OAK junior with SWA. I'm not attacking, just think it's interesting.

I assume that the cost of living is an issue for those that aren't from there. Politics as well.

I lucked out and missed doing OAK purgatory as a new hire because a guy senior to me lived there!