Southwest Guys

[OldManPilot]

To me it seems one of the problems is the blur between culture and negotiations. We understand the need to preserve the culture at SWA, but the intimidation and strong arming being used to obtain an agreement are unsettling to say the least. What can and will be done to alleviate these feelings when everything is said and done? I want to see the culture preserved as much as anyone, but the methods being used by SW management will make adopting these values difficult for many to swallow. I hope this makes sense to many of you.

 

[Cometman]

To me it seems one of the problems is the blur between culture and negotiations. We understand the need to preserve the culture at SWA, but the intimidation and strong arming being used to obtain an agreement are unsettling to say the least. What can and will be done to alleviate these feelings when everything is said and done? I want to see the culture preserved as much as anyone, but the methods being used by SW management will make adopting these values difficult for many to swallow. I hope this makes sense to many of you.

Wouldn't you use the same tactics if you had them available? It is a war being fought by both sides. You use whatever is available to win.

 

[Andy]

What Andy said is not true,the vast majority was ignored. The vast majority wanted to vote we did not want the mec to kill the deal,now we get this one which is not as good.Oh well. We will vote this in and Im looking forward to the job at swa and not looking in the rearview mirror wondering how much I lost on AIP1. See ya around the patch.

I don't know which Andy you're talking about but I have been clear from the beginning that I thought that the MEC should have pushed AIP1 to the full membership for a vote.
I realize that a vocal minority can make it seem like they are the majority. Had the majority of the membership voted down AIP1, that would have been much more favorable than not allowing everyone, including those silent members, to vote.

 

[SWA/FO]

To me it seems one of the problems is the blur between culture and negotiations. We understand the need to preserve the culture at SWA, but the intimidation and strong arming being used to obtain an agreement are unsettling to say the least. What can and will be done to alleviate these feelings when everything is said and done? I want to see the culture preserved as much as anyone, but the methods being used by SW management will make adopting these values difficult for many to swallow. I hope this makes sense to many of you.

Southwest doesn't want another USAir. Also, the SWAPA contract is very good, so good Gary can't do anything (conect dots, paint airlines, advertise etc.) until you guys are on our list.

Carl P some of the blame lies with A L P A. You are going to like it here and have a hell of a career.

 

[hairball1173]

I am not pissed at ALPA I am pissed at 7 people who are messing with my future and don't seem to listen very well. I hope they listen this time because this is it boys and girls.

 

[OldManPilot]

I am not pissed at ALPA I am pissed at 7 people who are messing with my future and don't seem to listen very well. I hope they listen this time because this is it boys and girls.

+1 I totally agree

 

[SWA717]

Are worthless MEC can talk majority all they want. Put this thing out for a vote and we will find out what the majority want!

 

[GuppyWN]

Are worthless MEC can talk majority all they want. Put this thing out for a vote and we will find out what the majority want!

There was a post that said the MEC was following the wish of the membership by voting down the first offer. Do you disagree with that?

 

[Fubijaakr]

It is a war being fought by both sides. You use whatever is available to win.

That's the problem. Its NOT a war. Its a seniority list integration. No one HAS to win or lose. If you implement a fair integration that respects everyone's seniority, you will have a much happier workplace in the end.

DAL/NWA comes to mind. When one group doesn't attempt to advance themselves at the cost of the other, its a lot easier to get things done.

Unfortunately, the entitlement attitude of SWA pilots (that shines through here in spades) makes that impossible.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Well it's going to be voted on now, as it should have the first time. We had a very and I mean very vocal minority that got us into this mess.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

That's what is so hilarious about the Jr. SWA f/os here who profess to know the mind of the God King and his minions.

They really think he cares who inhabits the bottom of the seniority list. As long as the metal moves, he doesn't give a crap who is pulling the gear.

I have read things that were further from the truth, but I can't remember when.

 

[SWA717]

Gup,

I believe the vocal minority played a big role I the last AIP getting shutdown. The problem at ATN is most people do not keep up with the union garbage. So the majority didn't make themselves heard enough. When the AIP was voted down, the majority started to come out if the woodwork.

 

[Sacha]

Gup,

I believe the vocal minority played a big role I the last AIP getting shutdown. The problem at ATN is most people do not keep up with the union garbage. So the majority didn't make themselves heard enough. When the AIP was voted down, the majority started to come out if the woodwork.

If this is true, then what happened to the pilot group that voted 98% to strike? I submit to you that engaging your union leadership in SLI guidance is more important long term for an individual than a strike vote. Why would a pilot group abrogate their long term career outcome to just a few. After all, what I having been reading on the forum and others is "it's not about the money! It's about the seniority!". Strikes are always about the MONEY. So based on what you have said, 98% cared about the MONEY, but when it comes to this SLI, "most people do not keep up with the union garbage". So which is it? If the majority started to come out of the "woodwork" as you say, then maybe the MONEY is little more important than some the Trannies posting on these threads would like to admit.

 

[SWA717]

Sacha,

I truely do not have an answer for what everyone was thinking. For me, it was about the money. I personally feel are MEC has been misguided by lawyers and a few militant types.

 

[redflyer65]

Outsider opinion, so take it for what's it worth. But I'd say you have it right SWA717. People that have different agendas than most of the regular line guys.

RF

 

[Sacha]

Sacha,

I truely do not have an answer for what everyone was thinking. For me, it was about the money. I personally feel are MEC has been misguided by lawyers and a few militant types.

It's always about the money. The reason you knew what everybody was thinking with the strike vote was because you HAD a VOTE. The reason you don't know what everybody was thinking about the SLI is because you DIDNT have a VOTE.

Previous to Southwest I was at two legacy carriers. It always amazed me that I had to have a minimum of a four year degree and a very competitive background either Military or Civilian. We were told we were the best and the brightest as new hires yet when it came to voting for contracts and the like, ALPA would say Oh no....we know what's best for you.....you get to vote for your Reps....we will take it from here.....HuH?!! Why?... I would ask. Because that's the way it's always been I was told. Or I would just get a blank look and a shrug of the shoulders. It varys from airline to airline, but for the most part that's the way it is at most ALPA carriers and I believe it's one of the many reasons ALPA has disintegrated. Good Luck.

 

[mt2]

To me it seems one of the problems is the blur between culture and negotiations. We understand the need to preserve the culture at SWA, but the intimidation and strong arming being used to obtain an agreement are unsettling to say the least. What can and will be done to alleviate these feelings when everything is said and done? I want to see the culture preserved as much as anyone, but the methods being used by SW management will make adopting these values difficult for many to swallow. I hope this makes sense to many of you.

It's called Warrior spirit, it's also part of the culture.

 

[Bill Nelson]

Well it's going to be voted on now, as it should have the first time. We had a very and I mean very vocal minority that got us into this mess.

Unfortunately that is generally how it works. Don't be surprised when the same vocal minority try to torpedo the vote this time too.

They will never understand that the best last final offer has already been made. It doesn't get better from here with a no vote. It's about having a job.

 

[ASADFW7]

We all get caught up in believing our own bs.

 

[N1atEcon]

Fubijacker this quote really does show your biased naiveness.

They really think he cares who inhabits the bottom of the seniority list. As long as the metal moves, he doesn't give a crap who is pulling the gear.

Pilots/employees who are so jaded buy this industry never understand and never will.
At SWA is just not about moving metal from A to B.