Southwest evaluates -800's

[waveflyer]

Is that why you released scope in 2006, bill? To compete w/ Virgin?

Hate to lay out capitalism- but that's one of it's defining characteristics- you had economies of scale that SWA didn't have back then-that's why Spirit didn't just now get Delta+1- if you bought into that line and sold out rj's that's your own dumb fault

company's are small- pay isn't as good-
company's get bigger- pay gets bigger-
that isn't new-
southwest won market share by being run better-

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Is that why you released scope in 2006, bill? To compete w/ Virgin?

Hate to lay out capitalism- but that's one of it's defining characteristics- you had economies of scale that SWA didn't have back then-that's why Spirit didn't just now get Delta+1- if you bought into that line and sold out rj's that's your own dumb fault

company's are small- pay isn't as good-
company's get bigger- pay gets bigger-
that isn't new-
southwest won market share by being run better-

Ok Wave....

I'll bite......So the Bankruptcy judge gets told by my management that I'm not as productive as you guys are....(Trust me, it's in the transcripts) and I in turn "had" to get my productivity up and my pay down. It wasn't my choice.

You are the "LCC" model like it or not. Before your time there, ask around and see if they got paid for going into holding.....the answer being no.

You can't say it's just management......more like timing. No international presence, less cities, opportunistic plane purchases and hedging. All swung to your favor. It's not that your management was that good, it's just that the rest were soooo bad.

BTW, for the record, your management rocks in their treatment of the employees, I can never argue that.

So capitalism means Delta HAS to give up slots and gates and other government agancies can cook up "incentives" to lure the LUV? Not in my economy pal....

 

[waveflyer]

I'll let the older generation answer that-

but I do know that southwest had close to the same pay as we do now when delta went into bankruptcy- and had sold out rjs long before that-

Your confusing "bk judge" with dalpa mec

as for the capitalism part- our history is littered with the big boys trying to shut us out politically- so I don't know what world you live in- but politics always effects business- whether you or I like I or not

 

[texman]

Guy's its deregulations fault. Capitalism. This is the way are country should be run.

 

[waveflyer]

Yeah- but there are choices in capitalism- and integrity.

Dalpa has shown they value their own short term gains more than the long term viability of the career-

how dumb do you have to be to not just admit that you screwed up releasing scope ever-and definitely did in '06?

Just admit it and move on trying to correct it-

We still compete in a seniority based union driven form of capitalism - southwest's pay wasn't great until they got big- that's a lot different than disenfranchising 1000's of junior pilots- outsourcing their jobs while furloughing so that those still left on the property won't have to take as big a hit in bankruptcy-

But it's always easier to let someone else suffer isn't it?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Wave...

The MEC wasn't all to blame. Too broad of a brush. Refresh me how we were "keeping your people down" like you claim......

Ever hear of the RJDC? They were hanging around looking to drop lawsuits overmisrepresentation. Not that they were taken seriously, but people were looking over DALPA's shoulders and you guys had a say in things.

 

[737tanker]

You are the "LCC" model like it or not. Before your time there, ask around and see if they got paid for going into holding.....the answer being no.

I've been at SWA for 16 years, and even before I got to SWA they had overfly pay, which basically paid for going into holding. Granted it didn't start until we had overflown the scheduled block by 12 minutes, it now starts at 5 minutes, but it was there for more than 20 years. So how far back do you want SWA pilots to look to see when there was no "holding" pay at SWA?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Thanks for making my point crystal 737Tanker......

You were the contract and work rules we had to adjust down to......it didn't happen right away though. I always got paid for holding, never had to fret over it.

 

[waveflyer]

Ok bill- a more measured response-

did a bk judge force you to release scope in 2006?

A simple question-

It's always easier to let others feel the financial pinch of competition rather than yourself- but seniority doesn't work if you divide up the lists

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Ok bill- a more measured response-

did a bk judge force you to release scope in 2006?

A simple question-

It's always easier to let others feel the financial pinch of competition rather than yourself- but seniority doesn't work if you divide up the lists

Question 1.....directly no, because it was negotiated under the threat of a judge making a ruling......THAT's not simple or easy to transcribe the whole process here....Anyway I voted no.....

Scope was actually tightened after the merger....truth!

You lost me on the whole divide the seniority thing (?!?!?!??) If you are stating that DCI pilots were any part of "the Lists"....then you haven't the first clue.

 

[ASADFW7]

you ********************ing delta idiots need to give it a rest, go ******************** your own threads up!!!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Way to go there ASA

He was just responding to a question posed by Weave.

 

[waveflyer]

Yeah - answering questions after another WN thread was hijacked by delta geeks.

I agree about after the merger- and I think delta guys are starting to get the damage done by outsourcing.

How about we wrap this up and just agree that our two companies are apples and oranges.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Weave, Historically speaking (1991-present) LUV and DAL are two totally different companies. What DAL did that LUV has not done is leverage the company and gone after the employees in CH11.

I do hope for all of my friends over at LUV that when UCAL, DAL and whatever AMR becomes once they get their integration done, then come after LUV with their full force, that LUV does not leverage the corporation. If they do, they will be taking the same path that many of the legacies did when LUV and JBLU starting cherry picking their markets.

Wanting scope changes was the first step way back when for DAL. In fact DAL did not even have a section one, and that was in all accounts the first hit that their PWA took. Look at the history from 1986 to present for DAL and make sure your corporation and association do not go along those paths.

I am glad that my buddies over at LUV love their job. I am glad it is a great corporation to work for. I just hope that does not change.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Yeah - answering questions after another WN thread was hijacked by delta geeks.

I agree about after the merger- and I think delta guys are starting to get the damage done by outsourcing.

How about we wrap this up and just agree that our two companies are apples and oranges.

Agree about the wrap up.....

Disagree about the geek thing......but not everybody can wear a flag tie and leather jackets, so ya got me.

ASA needs to hike up his skirt and STFU.....