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Southwest/ATA Plan WOW....

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tz800ca

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2003
Posts
57
Southwest is seeking control of ATA


By Ted Evanoff
[email protected]
December 14, 2004

Southwest Airlines would take almost complete control of ATA Airlines under a bold proposal discussed Monday with ATA and its creditors.

If a bankruptcy judge approves, Southwest would oust ATA senior executives, inject $47 million in cash, take a 35 percent stake in the Indianapolis carrier and name new senior managers who would quickly work to cut labor costs 15 percent to 20 percent, according to a draft copy of Southwest's plans prepared for ATA's bankruptcy auction.

The draft copy, obtained Monday night by The Indianapolis Star, is part of Southwest's $100 million bid for six ATA gates at Chicago Midway. The document gives the first indication that Southwest is attempting to win the backing of major ATA creditors over a rival $89.3 million bid ATA and AirTran Airways of Orlando negotiated early this fall.

Under Southwest's proposal, creditors would be offered new shares in ATA and a hand in choosing its board members.

Approval of the Southwest plan would appear to hand ATA Chairman J. George Mikelsons a significant defeat.

He not only would lose his position as chairman, he would also lose control of the direction of the airline he founded in 1972 and he might lose most of his 69 percent stake in ATA.
:D

Mikelsons, 67, set out to scale down his 7,700-employee airline by filing for bankruptcy protection Oct. 26. The Latvian emigrant intended for ATA to emerge from bankruptcy as a smaller carrier centered on Indianapolis using cash from the AirTran deal.

Lawyers for ATA, lenders and creditors are expected to finish a two-day meeting today in Indianapolis that was set up to review the bids placed by Southwest and AirTran for the Midway operations. Southwest's proposal was discussed Monday.

The draft copy, labeled a "proposed (joint) plan of reorganization," is a blueprint for how ATA would be run after it leaves bankruptcy.

The copy was prepared by Southwest ahead of last Friday's bid deadline.

U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Basil Lorch III is scheduled to pick a winning bid Thursday after hearing recommendations from ATA and its creditors, which include an array of aircraft lenders such as Boeing Capital and General Electric Capital Corp.

Southwest entered the bid process, however, with an offer that could satisfy creditors interested in being repaid.

The draft copy would give creditors new stock in what is called a "New ATA," a common tactic in bankruptcy reorganizations.

It would also earmark $85 million for a federal agency, the Air Transportation Stabilization Board, that guaranteed $140 million in ATA loans.

In an industry riddled by fare wares and high fuel prices, Southwest ranks among the strongest carriers, financially. It is known as a fast, efficient operator that often flies from second-tier airports to avoid direct competition with major airlines -- and has been consistently profitable.

Lawyers for creditors and officials at Southwest and America West Airlines could not be reached for comment Monday night. AirTran and an ATA attorney declined comment.

AirTran proposed buying all 14 gates at Midway and would funnel passengers from its Atlanta and Baltimore hubs to ATA long-distance flights. As part of that proposal, the state of Indiana and the city of Indianapolis provided ATA with a $15.5 million emergency loan on the condition that ATA preserve at least 1,000 of its 2,300 Indianapolis jobs.

Southwest's offer for six ATA gates at Midway startled industry analysts because it included a code-share provision -- for only the second time in Southwest's history.

This would allow ATA to sell Southwest tickets to travelers who use both airlines on one trip, such as a passenger going to Indianapolis from Fort Worth, Texas, flying the first leg on Southwest and changing at Midway to an ATA flight.

Because the ticketing requires a complicated computer connection between the airlines, it works against long-held Southwest principles.

"If you read the gospel according to (Southwest Chairman) Herb Kelleher, it has three books: Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity," said David Field, Americas editor for the trade journal Airline Business.

"This is part of a defensive move" by Southwest, Field said, noting Southwest is offering the arrangement on fewer than 10 routes out of Midway. "They saw it as the only way to match what AirTran was offering" in code-sharing.

"If Southwest offers code-sharing, I understand that it could be very valuable for ATA," said ATA attorney Stephen Claffey before Monday's review began. "ATA has enormously profitable routes if they are properly supported."
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It early in the week and things are already getting hot! Let's see GM get out of this one!
 
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Sounds like maybe a good deal for ATA pilots out there if there is tighter coordination between the airlines.... Why would SWA only take a 35% stake? Are they doing this to enusre access to the gates (political move to appease politicians wanting to preserve jobs)? Should be interesting...
 
On Your Six said:
Sounds like maybe a good deal for ATA pilots out there if there is tighter coordination between the airlines.... Why would SWA only take a 35% stake? Are they doing this to enusre access to the gates (political move to appease politicians wanting to preserve jobs)? Should be interesting...
I believe this is just the "opening bid" and is likely to change as the "auction" continues through the week. We will see how bad who wants what and what they are will to do/pay.
 
They are bidding for 6 gates.. and a code share..? Will FL get to play with the remaining gates? Or will the other 8 be utilized by multiple carriers ?

Joe.. see thier 100 and raise em another 5..... what the H*LL... ! I guess the pretzel packs are gonna get a bit smaller .....
 
mnboyev said:
They are bidding for 6 gates.. and a code share..? Will FL get to play with the remaining gates? Or will the other 8 be utilized by multiple carriers ?
Or will ATA keep them????????????
 
Yeah !! that would be good for TZ... But what about the cost saving program? Would this mean downsizing.... ie furloughs.. I know it is too early to tell.

I guess we'll know on the 16th.
 
Under the WN plan, ATA keeps the other gates and WN will codeshare to 9 cities to start and increase that over an 8 to 10 year period. This is WN's way to go to LGA, DCA, SFO, and other high density airport as well as Hawaii and Mexico and eventually Europe. It has only a net loss of a few aircraft ovet the next 12 months with plans to INCREASE the fleet size of ATA.

WN realized the domestic market will be tapped out soon and now, they are being very proactive to ensure themselves as a future worldwide carrier without the risk of new aircraft, ops specs and training and all the other expenses associated with starting ETOPS and Intl authority. This deal also protects the jobs of ATA pilots and other employee groups.

It look like we have a winner as the forcasted deal, over a time period, is worth over TRIPLE what the AAI deal is worth and it keeps ATA a viable entity, only takes 6 gates and protects the ATSB and Unsecred creditors the best way possible...by keeping the Aircraft flying! It also removes current senior management and replaces them with a COMPETANT management team.

WN has already worked an arrangement with the aircraft lessors, the city of Chicago, the ATSB and the rest of the Unsecured crditors. They REALLY did their homework. I don't feel that AAI has the financial horsepower to come close to this one as it would REALLY expose them by both a HUGE debt load and direct cometition with WN.

This, if approved, will give the employees of ATA a second chance where their current management and the AAI deal will not. I think we may have a winning bid!

Let's hope this is the one!
 
you must be in the room or have the room bugged to know that WN has already talked to the A/C peeps, the city and there second cousin. If this is approved you have know idea if this will give ATA a second chance. You know what you read on the computer and we all know that this is the most accurate stuff out there.


If it does get approved I do hope that it makes for a better more trim ATA but to say for sure w/out all the info iws just getting your hopes hi.

good luck to all ATA folks however it turns out.
 
Gary Kelly is a genus. This is also great for ATA as it keeps them operating at MDW with ATA employees. Codeshare? Yet another way to get to Dallas, either Love or DFW!
 
"It has only a net loss of a few aircraft ovet the next 12 months with plans to INCREASE the fleet size of ATA".

Wonder how this will sit with SWAPA?
 
ted evenoff said:
If a bankruptcy judge approves, Southwest would oust ATA senior executives, inject $47 million in cash, take a 35 percent stake in the Indianapolis carrier and name new senior managers who would quickly work to cut labor costs 15 percent to 20 percent, according to a draft copy of Southwest's plans prepared for ATA's bankruptcy auction.

There could be a slight problem with this plan.

SWA will need to work very diligently to assure the present WN employee group that this labor cost reduction will not be contagious. I'll bet that the waves of doubt are already rolling through the WN labor groups. I hope that Gary and Colleen have a plan.
They must have foreseen the potential for emotional reprecussions resulting from the impact of wage cuts even if those cuts don't happen to WN badged employees, so it would seem that they have a plan to maintain confidence at home. Again, I hope so.

Does anyone know of the difference between ATA and SWA wage scales? If the cost cutting only serves to normalize between the two companies, SWA might pull it off without scaring their own people.

This could get interesting,
Calvin
 
tz800ca said:
such as a passenger going to Indianapolis from Fort Worth, Texas, flying the first leg on Southwest and changing at Midway to an ATA flight.
I believe this would be the other way around.[ DFW(ATA)-MDW-IND(SWA) ] This would be a little way around the Wright Amendment.
 
"Does anyone know of the difference between ATA and SWA wage scales".

With SWA increase in pay and ATAs decrease of recent, SWA pay is above ATA by a considerable margin.
 
:-) said:
Does anyone know of the difference between ATA and SWA wage scales?


Southwest $182 $90
ATA $145 $71


12 year Ca & 3 year FO
 
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The decreses in labor costs would most likely come from changes in work rules and our many ineffeciencies. There's nothing like flying one two hour leg a day only to sit in the hotel for thrity six hours. Although I'm sure they will ask for less pay as well.
 
Integration issues aside.......

With SWA having excellent fuel hedges and probably the ability to negotiate leases on the Boeings, ATA could very well become profitable almost immediately.

SWA does do some charters, not sure how often, but I do see them around once in a while. The DOD contracts are a money maker for ATA, so why stop a good thing. Sure, the L10 is old, but it does the job, then again SWA could cut a deal with Boeing, or another airline, to aquire some 767, something ATA has been rumored to be looking at in the past.

If SWA does indeed plan on keeping ATA around, it certainly seems like a better deal than Airtran, who appeared only to want the gates with an "orderly" phaseout of ATA.

Interesting times ahead!
 
ATA For Now! said:
It look like we have a winner as the forcasted deal, over a time period, is worth over TRIPLE what the AAI deal is worth and it keeps ATA a viable entity, only takes 6 gates and protects the ATSB and Unsecred creditors the best way possible...by keeping the Aircraft flying!

Uh, that would be one way to look at it, but through a highly subjective prism. I think this is just more "jockeying for position" and in the end, the gates will be divvied up.

Just hope that ATA ends up with as good a deal as either offer. If Airtran only gets a handful of gates, we won't need to buy them, wet-lease or codeshare, which would be good for AirTran, but bad for ATA.

It seems to me like if this deal goes through (doubtful) SWA keeps AirTran out of the picture, and with those expensive leases, high fuel prices without hedging, the money will only be a short-term fix. I say "doubtful" because not only would this have to pass muster with the bankruptcy court, but also with with the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) and it reeks of antitrust (monopoly) concerns to me.

Also, AirTran's offer was not only for $90 mil but also provided twice the annual revenue for ATA ($100 mil/ a year), that SWA's deal offered, yet you keep saying that SWA's offer is for more money. How about showing us where those numbers are coming from, because it sure looks like wishful thinking on your part.
 
Ty Webb said:
How about showing us where those numbers are coming from, because it sure looks like wishful thinking on your part.
Ty,

Unfortunately, I can't get into the details of the plan as I do have inside information. Let's just say that the potential revenue from this deal far exceeds any generated by a "smaller, leaner ATA" with a code share with AAI. I can tell you that the anti trust issues you brought up have already been setteled and it is NOT a problem. WN REALLY did their homework on this. The lease prices as well as other debt has been addressed and fuel is coming down. The current price per gallon for us has dropped on average 36 cents since last month. I know it doesn't sound like much but each penny costs ATA $3 mil/yr.

WN is looking to expand their market share. ATA does some things well, (besides lose money) and WN does things well. A combination of forces would make it possible for someone in Brownsville TX to buy a ticket to Maui and eventually to Europe. A seemless intergation of 2 different companies that will offer worldwide authority to the traveling public.

I too was a little puzzled by this offer initally but when one looks at the potential, it makes sense.

WN has put together a plan that ensures the creditors and ATSB get their money. That is the most important thing to te BK court. A by-product of this plan is the future of ATA employees looks better than it would with the AAI deal. Obviosly, we wont know until Thursday but it looks to me like the WN deal is the one. If AAI comes up with alot more cash or a new deal, they may take it. Guess we will have to wait and see!

And as far as wishful thinking, guess you got me there. I wish that whatever deal happens, it protects the jobs of the people I represent.
 
OK ATA, reality check time.

This was a defensive move by WN, period. Also, don't ever believe a third party when they say they are going to grow you. They won't. SWA pilots, flight attaendants and gate agents will crap their pants when that starts to happen. Then they're gonna do everything they can to make sure you don't make it and then they will really be in the driver's seat at MDW. Trust me, that is all they want. All you have to do is look at history to see how it will play out. SWA will get the gates and over time ATA will get be treated more and more as a step-child until one day it is dismantled by the "board Members" that WN plants on your board.

The best way out would have been for the FL deal to go through and keep your airline independent with the possibility of future growth, profitibility and recalls.

I'll bet my last dollar that this WN deal will not be good for TZ in the long run.
 
75M said:
This was a defensive move by WN, period. Also, don't ever believe a third party when they say they are going to grow you. They won't. SWA pilots, flight attaendants and gate agents will crap their pants when that starts to happen. Then they're gonna do everything they can to make sure you don't make it and then they will really be in the driver's seat at MDW. Trust me, that is all they want. All you have to do is look at history to see how it will play out. SWA will get the gates and over time ATA will get be treated more and more as a step-child until one day it is dismantled by the "board Members" that WN plants on your board.
This appears to be one of the only prognostications that isn't colored by some rosy shaded glasses or the haze of wishful thinking.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but although the pay is higher at luv, staffing is much different. ATA has almost 15 pilots per aircraft, Southwest has 10 or 11. Relief pilots and 3 crew L-10s are a large part of this. Bagging the L-10s for 76's and working a bit more efficiently could decrease labor costs. Also, doesn't UPS have the same payscale for all aircraft types? Hmmmm.
 
"The best way out would have been for the FL deal to go through and keep your airline independent with the possibility of future growth, profitibility and recalls".

But FL has not offered growth at ATA from what I have seen. The offer seems to be, to keep ATA around untill such time, FL has the man power and a/c's, so tat they can shut down ATA.

Not privvy to the insiders portion of SWAs offer, but from the outside it looks like it has more potential. Now true, as someone else pointed out and I hinted to, is how will the employees at SWA react and what is the long term vision wrt. SWA and ATA. This may simply be a ploy from SWA to offer what appears to be the best deal for ATA, but in the end SWA obviously looks out for what is best for them. SWA has said, that they feel the -800 is too large for them and have made no mentions of 75s or L10s.

I feel ATA is a great airline with lots of potential, with a good management team and support from who used to be the competetion, it may very well end up being a very strong airline indeed.
 
75M said:
OK ATA, reality check time.

This was a defensive move by WN, period. Also, don't ever believe a third party when they say they are going to grow you. They won't. SWA pilots, flight attaendants and gate agents will crap their pants when that starts to happen. Then they're gonna do everything they can to make sure you don't make it and then they will really be in the driver's seat at MDW. Trust me, that is all they want. All you have to do is look at history to see how it will play out. SWA will get the gates and over time ATA will get be treated more and more as a step-child until one day it is dismantled by the "board Members" that WN plants on your board.

The best way out would have been for the FL deal to go through and keep your airline independent with the possibility of future growth, profitibility and recalls.

I'll bet my last dollar that this WN deal will not be good for TZ in the long run.
I think ATA stands a much better chance of being gutted by FL than SWA if FL wins. You can't blame the ATA folks for wanting the WN deal after the statements made on this board and the apathetic resume taker they sent to MDW on Monday.
 
Ok, 75m, you win.....all ATA people are screwed. What was I thinking! Guess you woke me up from my daydream....ahhhh...to think we may have still had jobs.

Oh, well. Guess it's time to move to Miami and rent lounge chairs on the beach!

Have fun with the debate boys....I'm OUT!
 

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