Sorry Colgan, but you will not be as lucky as Mesaba

[sinkrate]

Why it all happenned is irrelevant at this point. At this point there is nothing the pilots can do to save the day, but if they balk at the inevitable they will screw themselves royally. If it goes to bk


-the Agreement goes out the window - including scope and seniority list rights. The company will demonstrste to a judge that to save the company the scope provisions must go so they can sell Colgan. Seniority list rights will also get trashed - they must furlough the pilots that are in the seats that leave the property or they won't have the cash to continue


-if the TP staff doesn't get cheaper than Commute air the D-8's will go there. The Commute air guys have been seeing smoke from their management about PCL.


-if the CRJ 900 staff doesn't get cheaper than GO Jets guess where they are going.


-DAL may use the opportunity to park more 50 seaters. A good chunk of PCL's200's are doing essential air service routes that weren't profitable with 30 seat Saab's.


If the big cheese can get the big players to agree to a work out outside of BK the pilots better not screw up the deal. They will be looking at -a small pay cut - longer seat locks (not fences) - and some work rule give backs. They will also know the numbers that will get fuloughed. Push it into BK and your contract and pay rates will get gutted - after half of you are on the street. Any body remember what Anderson did to Champion after he sold them?

 

[Raskal]

Why it all happenned is irrelevant at this point. At this point there is nothing the pilots can do to save the day, but if they balk at the inevitable they will screw themselves royally. If it goes to bk


-the Agreement goes out the window - including scope and seniority list rights. The company will demonstrste to a judge that to save the company the scope provisions must go so they can sell Colgan. Seniority list rights will also get trashed - they must furlough the pilots that are in the seats that leave the property or they won't have the cash to continue


-if the TP staff doesn't get cheaper than Commute air the D-8's will go there. The Commute air guys have been seeing smoke from their management about PCL.


-if the CRJ 900 staff doesn't get cheaper than GO Jets guess where they are going.


-DAL may use the opportunity to park more 50 seaters. A good chunk of PCL's200's are doing essential air service routes that weren't profitable with 30 seat Saab's.


If the big cheese can get the big players to agree to a work out outside of BK the pilots better not screw up the deal. They will be looking at -a small pay cut - longer seat locks (not fences) - and some work rule give backs. They will also know the numbers that will get fuloughed. Push it into BK and your contract and pay rates will get gutted - after half of you are on the street. Any body remember what Anderson did to Champion after he sold them?

I guess it's BK then. I'd rather go sell cars then give back an inch of this crap contract. Sorry lifers, the job ain't worth it anymore.

 

[PCL_128]

Not when your airline declares bankruptcy and files motion 1113e.

Whether a judge can legally abrogate seniority rights is highly questionable, even under 1113(e) or (c). It's never happened. What is more likely is that the judge would offset the training costs by allowing even further wage reductions or productivity improvements. Your dream of furloughing people out of seniority order (which is absolutely horrible, by the way) isn't likely to happen.

 

[Flyer1015]

Your dream of furloughing people out of seniority order (which is absolutely horrible, by the way) isn't likely to happen.

The concept of "seniority" (as I knew it) died the day the Bloch award/list came out.

 

[dashtrash]

The 200 flying being profitable for PNCL does not mean it is for DAL. The Q400 flying for UAL is bad for PNCL because Colgan underbid just to get the contract. DAL would love to have an airplane that carries 30% more customers for 40% less fuel burn. The 200 pilots have more to worry about in the long term.

 

[jynxyjericho]

It's great to feel the love from the Pinnacle guys this early into the bankruptcy.

Phil runs Pinnacle into the ground and it's all Mesaba's fault. Just a terrific, terrific stuff. I hope everyone takes the time to read this thread thoroughly, it shows exactly where this merger is at, and where it is heading.

We are a long way from fixing the problems at this airline, though I am hopeful that with the 500-1000 furloughs, 250-500 downgrades, it will force the awful people at this airline with their awful attitudes to leave.

Of course none of this matters, Kitt Darby told me next year is the begging of the MASSIVE PILOT SHORTAGGEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

 

[xjhawk]

Flyer your line of reasoning is once again off. Most of XJ's pilots would rather had gone at it alone and not been given to Pinnacle and their crappy management. You do not really think the 900's your company has and its Q's were successful? re read the memo. Oh and you are clearly in need of a drug test if you do not think that Delta is not looking to park or rebid to a cheaper company the 140 crj200's that your company brought to the table. One thing is for sure. Mesaba was profitable and so were the Saabs. Those markets will be served by someone else to make money for someone. Delta has reasons for this, they just have not played their hand yet. But you clearly show me you deserve to be ignored as your reasoning is always flawed.

 

[DoinTime]

One thing is for sure. Mesaba was profitable and so were the Saabs.

Colgan thought they were wildly profitable too.

 

[insomniac99]

It's not worth arguing about a bottom tier regional that is circling the bowl. It sucks but everyone's best bet is probably to jump ship as soon as they are able. 9E will never be what XJ was. I left XJ as soon as I could after the merger was announced and it worked out great for me.

 

[altimaklr]

I'm sure XJ was very profitable with their prehistoric RJ captains and rusty Saabs. Calling XJ profitable is the same bs eagle and comair pilots feed themselves. When you are a whole-owned, being "profitable" is a simple accouting trick, and basically meaningless.

 

[jynxyjericho]

Colgan thought they were wildly profitable too.

Yeah, except Pinnacle financial statements say that XJ is/was profitable. The saabs were too, the parking of them was expensive. Obviously you disagree which I am forced to conclude you think the accountants are lying. Even if that was true your moron management was duped and it's still their fault.

I'm sure XJ was very profitable with their prehistoric RJ captains and rusty Saabs. Calling XJ profitable is the same bs eagle and comair pilots feed themselves. When you are a whole-owned, being "profitable" is a simple accouting trick, and basically meaningless.

See above. Everything you argue lends itself to the reality that management is at fault, yet you blame the pilots. You should put resumes in for one of the 13 VP slots at Pinnacle. Maybe DoinTime could join you and get you both off the ISL.

Not that I wouldn't love arguing with you guys, but at some point I look at the bigger picture that we have to find a way to be successful in all this, and that means working together as a pilot group. I see that won't happen, and it's the pilots attitude that is to blame.

Of course, that's kind of the way it always is hu?

XJ was a good buy for you guys (no money down buy to boot), unfortunately you can throw all the money at the world at a polished rube, he'll find a way to spend every dime. It's just strange that the defense mechanism is blaming the guy handing the money, I'm afraid my psych 101 class didn't cover this.

How many numbers do we have to furlough for you two clowns to be FO's (if not already). I've gotta to have something to hope for, since pilot cooperation won't be one of them.

 

[Flyer1015]

Flyer your line of reasoning is once again off. Most of XJ's pilots would rather had gone at it alone and not been given to Pinnacle and their crappy management.

Oh I know the above to be too true! Just ask SEVEN

You do not really think the 900's your company has and its Q's were successful? re read the memo.

No, not successful. The 900s were initially underbid for just 16 jets, on the hope (or premise) that Delta would like us and agree to give us more. The 16 were just suppose to be a launch platform. Unfortunately, it didn't work out that way. We own these jets, so all their costs are on us. As for the Qs, they can be successful if the contract is right. Right now, Colgan underbid and their management (old management) never thought they would get the JCBA that they did in this merger. The Q is a maintenance hog as well. For the Pinnacle/Colgan Q flying to work, we need a change in rates/compensation from UniCal. If they refuse, as Menke already stated, we are not getting enough $ compared to our expenses to operate the Q. You can only run in the red for so long. Where is the flaw to my logic?

Oh and you are clearly in need of a drug test if you do not think that Delta is not looking to park or rebid to a cheaper company the 140 crj200's that your company brought to the table.

True, but they will not get rid of all 126 -200s overnight.

One thing is for sure. Mesaba was profitable and so were the Saabs. Those markets will be served by someone else to make money for someone. Delta has reasons for this, they just have not played their hand yet. But you clearly show me you deserve to be ignored as your reasoning is always flawed.

Mesaba's 900s are profitable, but the Saabs were questionable. But it doesn't matter, since all your Saabs are headed to the desert, with some enjoying some down time in DTW. They are all parked, doesn't matter what they can make anymore. Does anyone else want them? No, otherwise Mesaba would have found a customer to fly for already. Delta's sole reason was they want to be viewed as the all jet airline. They are distancing themselves from props, and I believe it was Anderson who made that speach a lil while ago.

 

[Flyer1015]

XJ was a good buy for you guys

Our downgraded Captains might disagree, you know, the ones who lost their left seats so the Mesaba Saab guys could keep theirs.

 

[jynxyjericho]

Our downgraded Captains might disagree, you know, the ones who lost their left seats so the Mesaba Saab guys could keep theirs.

Yeah, after the crap on this board from the Pinnacle guys and your boy JH during the SL negotiations I honestly laugh my ass of at you guys situation. It restores my faith in a higher power.

Let's keep the negativity going guys, that'll show them!

Here, I'll start. The Pinnacle TA1 was actually worth less than our concessionary contract. I'm certain you would have negotiated a contract close to our current JCBA value though, it only would have taken another 5 years. Would have worked out better for us, we had to bring the two lowest paying airline up, maybe if we'd been sold to ASA/Skyworst, we'd actually have had some contract gains on this JCBA.

Someone else... let's hear from Colgan guys!

If we can keep enough hate going on this board and stay completely divided, the bankruptcy will somehow magically go away and flyer will get his upgrade! You see, bitching on web boards at your own pilots + ? = Epic WIN!

 

[Flyer1015]

The Pinnacle TA1 was actually worth less than our concessionary contract. I'm certain you would have negotiated a contract close to our current JCBA value though, it only would have taken another 5 years. Would have worked out better for us, we had to bring the two lowest paying airline up, maybe if we'd been sold to ASA/Skyworst, we'd actually have had some contract gains on this JCBA.

Lets see, you brought over a contract and a shrinking fleet that forced our guys to be downgraded and displaced. Sorry, I'd rather keep our contract and fight for our TA#2 than take the current crap we're in. I do like how you (and certain select other XJ pilots) still think you brought the contract into this merger as if it means something. This contract has actually decreased my QOL when I can't waive certain rights.