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Sorry Colgan, but you will not be as lucky as Mesaba

jynxyjericho

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It's great to feel the love from the Pinnacle guys this early into the bankruptcy.

Phil runs Pinnacle into the ground and it's all Mesaba's fault. Just a terrific, terrific stuff. I hope everyone takes the time to read this thread thoroughly, it shows exactly where this merger is at, and where it is heading.

We are a long way from fixing the problems at this airline, though I am hopeful that with the 500-1000 furloughs, 250-500 downgrades, it will force the awful people at this airline with their awful attitudes to leave.

Of course none of this matters, Kitt Darby told me next year is the begging of the MASSIVE PILOT SHORTAGGEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
 

xjhawk

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Flyer your line of reasoning is once again off. Most of XJ's pilots would rather had gone at it alone and not been given to Pinnacle and their crappy management. You do not really think the 900's your company has and its Q's were successful? re read the memo. Oh and you are clearly in need of a drug test if you do not think that Delta is not looking to park or rebid to a cheaper company the 140 crj200's that your company brought to the table. One thing is for sure. Mesaba was profitable and so were the Saabs. Those markets will be served by someone else to make money for someone. Delta has reasons for this, they just have not played their hand yet. But you clearly show me you deserve to be ignored as your reasoning is always flawed.
 

insomniac99

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It's not worth arguing about a bottom tier regional that is circling the bowl. It sucks but everyone's best bet is probably to jump ship as soon as they are able. 9E will never be what XJ was. I left XJ as soon as I could after the merger was announced and it worked out great for me.
 

altimaklr

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I'm sure XJ was very profitable with their prehistoric RJ captains and rusty Saabs. Calling XJ profitable is the same bs eagle and comair pilots feed themselves. When you are a whole-owned, being "profitable" is a simple accouting trick, and basically meaningless.
 

jynxyjericho

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Colgan thought they were wildly profitable too. :rolleyes:

Yeah, except Pinnacle financial statements say that XJ is/was profitable. The saabs were too, the parking of them was expensive. Obviously you disagree which I am forced to conclude you think the accountants are lying. Even if that was true your moron management was duped and it's still their fault.

I'm sure XJ was very profitable with their prehistoric RJ captains and rusty Saabs. Calling XJ profitable is the same bs eagle and comair pilots feed themselves. When you are a whole-owned, being "profitable" is a simple accouting trick, and basically meaningless.

See above. Everything you argue lends itself to the reality that management is at fault, yet you blame the pilots. You should put resumes in for one of the 13 VP slots at Pinnacle. Maybe DoinTime could join you and get you both off the ISL.

Not that I wouldn't love arguing with you guys, but at some point I look at the bigger picture that we have to find a way to be successful in all this, and that means working together as a pilot group. I see that won't happen, and it's the pilots attitude that is to blame.

Of course, that's kind of the way it always is hu?

XJ was a good buy for you guys (no money down buy to boot), unfortunately you can throw all the money at the world at a polished rube, he'll find a way to spend every dime. It's just strange that the defense mechanism is blaming the guy handing the money, I'm afraid my psych 101 class didn't cover this.

How many numbers do we have to furlough for you two clowns to be FO's (if not already). I've gotta to have something to hope for, since pilot cooperation won't be one of them.
 

Flyer1015

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Flyer your line of reasoning is once again off. Most of XJ's pilots would rather had gone at it alone and not been given to Pinnacle and their crappy management.
Oh I know the above to be too true! Just ask SEVEN :D

You do not really think the 900's your company has and its Q's were successful? re read the memo.
No, not successful. The 900s were initially underbid for just 16 jets, on the hope (or premise) that Delta would like us and agree to give us more. The 16 were just suppose to be a launch platform. Unfortunately, it didn't work out that way. We own these jets, so all their costs are on us. As for the Qs, they can be successful if the contract is right. Right now, Colgan underbid and their management (old management) never thought they would get the JCBA that they did in this merger. The Q is a maintenance hog as well. For the Pinnacle/Colgan Q flying to work, we need a change in rates/compensation from UniCal. If they refuse, as Menke already stated, we are not getting enough $ compared to our expenses to operate the Q. You can only run in the red for so long. Where is the flaw to my logic?

Oh and you are clearly in need of a drug test if you do not think that Delta is not looking to park or rebid to a cheaper company the 140 crj200's that your company brought to the table.
True, but they will not get rid of all 126 -200s overnight.

One thing is for sure. Mesaba was profitable and so were the Saabs. Those markets will be served by someone else to make money for someone. Delta has reasons for this, they just have not played their hand yet. But you clearly show me you deserve to be ignored as your reasoning is always flawed.
Mesaba's 900s are profitable, but the Saabs were questionable. But it doesn't matter, since all your Saabs are headed to the desert, with some enjoying some down time in DTW. They are all parked, doesn't matter what they can make anymore. Does anyone else want them? No, otherwise Mesaba would have found a customer to fly for already. Delta's sole reason was they want to be viewed as the all jet airline. They are distancing themselves from props, and I believe it was Anderson who made that speach a lil while ago.
 

Flyer1015

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XJ was a good buy for you guys
Our downgraded Captains might disagree, you know, the ones who lost their left seats so the Mesaba Saab guys could keep theirs.
 

jynxyjericho

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Our downgraded Captains might disagree, you know, the ones who lost their left seats so the Mesaba Saab guys could keep theirs.

Yeah, after the crap on this board from the Pinnacle guys and your boy JH during the SL negotiations I honestly laugh my ass of at you guys situation. It restores my faith in a higher power.

Let's keep the negativity going guys, that'll show them!

Here, I'll start. The Pinnacle TA1 was actually worth less than our concessionary contract. I'm certain you would have negotiated a contract close to our current JCBA value though, it only would have taken another 5 years. Would have worked out better for us, we had to bring the two lowest paying airline up, maybe if we'd been sold to ASA/Skyworst, we'd actually have had some contract gains on this JCBA.

Someone else... let's hear from Colgan guys!

If we can keep enough hate going on this board and stay completely divided, the bankruptcy will somehow magically go away and flyer will get his upgrade! You see, bitching on web boards at your own pilots + ? = Epic WIN!
 

Flyer1015

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The Pinnacle TA1 was actually worth less than our concessionary contract. I'm certain you would have negotiated a contract close to our current JCBA value though, it only would have taken another 5 years. Would have worked out better for us, we had to bring the two lowest paying airline up, maybe if we'd been sold to ASA/Skyworst, we'd actually have had some contract gains on this JCBA.
Lets see, you brought over a contract and a shrinking fleet that forced our guys to be downgraded and displaced. Sorry, I'd rather keep our contract and fight for our TA#2 than take the current crap we're in. I do like how you (and certain select other XJ pilots) still think you brought the contract into this merger as if it means something. This contract has actually decreased my QOL when I can't waive certain rights.
 

Flyer1015

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If we can keep enough hate going on this board and stay completely divided, the bankruptcy will somehow magically go away and flyer will get his upgrade! You see, bitching on web boards at your own pilots + ? = Epic WIN!
Upgrade? Fuggetboutit!

Next move is to park all Colgan Saabs, and those 2007-8 9L Captains will then displace more of our 9E Captains at DTW/JFK and furlough the bottom of the list. Pinnacle will displace all out, with just the quota 541 Captains on the CRJ-200 at that point. Most junior 9E Captain would then be about a Aug 2006 DOH.
 

jynxyjericho

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Lets see, you brought over a contract and a shrinking fleet that forced our guys to be downgraded and displaced. Sorry, I'd rather keep our contract and fight for our TA#2 than take the current crap we're in. I do like how you (and certain select other XJ pilots) still think you brought the contract into this merger as if it means something. This contract has actually decreased my QOL when I can't waive certain rights.

Upgrade? Fuggetboutit!

Next move is to park all Colgan Saabs, and those 2007-8 9L Captains will then displace more of our 9E Captains at DTW/JFK and furlough the bottom of the list. Pinnacle will displace all out, with just the quota 541 Captains on the CRJ-200 at that point. Most junior 9E Captain would then be about a Aug 2006 DOH.

You know what, I was mistaken, it was clear you guys had the eye on the prize and contract negotiations well in hand. It was especially clear to all of us when we'd sit down to talk about contract improvements and your guys (subcommittee anyway) would spend that time bitching about your last couple trips (half the time you picked up in open time) and then slam clicking at the end of the night. Maybe this downgrade, JCBA, and ISL finally did what no 9E rep could do, focus and unify your group.

Unfortunately, and predictably, its years late and it will do nothing but annihilate this new pilot group and it's contract gains because you still can't accept that- like it or not- we are in this together.

Seriously though, Colgan guys turn. Let's bring this ship into the rocks like an Italian. Worse case we completely blow the next few months and go down like glue sniffing idiots. After all, when the only thing you know to do is bitch all damn day and night you HAVE to create drama, otherwise you might move forward.

Common, someone other than flyer? No? Nobody? Common boys, this is how we solve our problems. We fight amongst ourselves + ? = Epic Win! Everyone, sing along if you know the words.
 

jynxyjericho

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Let's hear it now boys, this ship is going down and I want to see all of you stepping over each other and clawing your way out.

You know, there was a day when pilots stood up, acted like men, and raised the flag of war against management. I see only the hollow shadows of men in front of me now, with no hope of redemption, true delight blazing in their eyes as they curse each other and hope for their misfortune. You all are the future of this "profession", the distorted and muted echos of once great men resound in what we do here and now. I want to see you fight each other and stab each other until there is nothing left. When they write the books for flying the line volume 3, let it read, "here was pounded in the last nail in the coffin, as each man and woman turned on each other with hate a bitterness". You are your own worse enemy, and you write your own future.
 

suupah

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Let's hear it now boys, this ship is going down and I want to see all of you stepping over each other and clawing your way out.

You know, there was a day when pilots stood up, acted like men, and raised the flag of war against management. I see only the hollow shadows of men in front of me now, with no hope of redemption, true delight blazing in their eyes as they curse each other and hope for their misfortune. You all are the future of this "profession", the distorted and muted echos of once great men resound in what we do here and now. I want to see you fight each other and stab each other until there is nothing left. When they write the books for flying the line volume 3, let it read, "here was pounded in the last nail in the coffin, as each man and woman turned on each other with hate a bitterness". You are your own worse enemy, and you write your own future.

the only venom i see is from the same small group of pinnacle pilots that were spewing the hate throughout the ISL negotiations and arbitration.
 

Mesabi Miner

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Let's hear it now boys, this ship is going down and I want to see all of you stepping over each other and clawing your way out.

You know, there was a day when pilots stood up, acted like men, and raised the flag of war against management. I see only the hollow shadows of men in front of me now, with no hope of redemption, true delight blazing in their eyes as they curse each other and hope for their misfortune. You all are the future of this "profession", the distorted and muted echos of once great men resound in what we do here and now. I want to see you fight each other and stab each other until there is nothing left. When they write the books for flying the line volume 3, let it read, "here was pounded in the last nail in the coffin, as each man and woman turned on each other with hate a bitterness". You are your own worse enemy, and you write your own future.

Is that from, "Lord of the Rings"? I swear Aragorn used this speech to bolster his warriors before the battle at Helms Deep.

Aside from that, thank you gentlemen for some fine reading and entertainment. Alas, I had forgotten what it was like to be glued to Flightinfo every day, basking in hate and vinegar through our contract in '04 and the bankruptcy/concessionary contract of a few years ago. But allow me, a potential lifer at the black and yellow to suggest that you... just let it go. Other than the vote that we'll likely have put in front of us, and the stack of resumes you have at home, there's very little you can do to fix your situation. We from XJ (Pinnacle North) didn't want to be purchased. Believe me. We really didn't want to be purchased by Pinnacle. Some of us still wake up in the wee hours in a cold sweat. But, we were. And we deal with it. And we will deal with the 5% pay cut. And we will deal with our next bankruptcy.

Flyer, while I don't believe your rants are productive by any means, I do solute your passion and your ability to write in coherent sentences. Just remember that we ALL have been screwed in this industry one way or another. If you will allow me to indulge... "I should be at the majors by now. Who spends almost 12 years at the regionals?" You know what? When I look back, there was very little I could do to get to the majors. My path didn't take me there. Now I'm not saying surrender to resignation. But just moderately paddle as you ride the wave of your airline career. Plus, what was that other guy saying about a pilot shortage?

MM a.k.a. Obi-Wan
 

Smarta$$

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So... Pinnacle negotiated a contract with D to operate 900s, at a loss. Pinnacle, negotiated a contract to fly Q400s at a loss through its Colgan subsidiary. Pinnacle agreed to purchase Mesaba knowing their fleet was shrinking and that their pilot CBA most likely required a single seniority list. Pinnacle made SEVERAL unsustainable and disasterous business decissions.

And yet, you blame Mesaba and Colgan pilots for the decisions made by YOUR management.

Flyer... Seriously, you are a broken record. Even if you can point to some valid mistakes made, what is the point? What is your blaming everyone else but your management and the pinnacle pilots (for demanding an unreasonable integration leading to a disasterous Bloch ruling) actually going to do?

You spend (waste) way to much of your life thinking about and worrying about what has already happened, and who you can blame outside of pinnacle airlines. 90% of what is wrong with the current pinnacle airlines, is a direct result of PINNACLE airlines.
 

Smarta$$

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Lets see, you brought over a contract and a shrinking fleet that forced our guys to be downgraded and displaced. Sorry, I'd rather keep our contract and fight for our TA#2 than take the current crap we're in. I do like how you (and certain select other XJ pilots) still think you brought the contract into this merger as if it means something. This contract has actually decreased my QOL when I can't waive certain rights.

Do you have a F&*^*^% Delorean and a flux capacitor? Even if you did, can you get YOUR CEO to change his mind about buying Mesaba?

If not, shut the F&%$**& up!
 

Smarta$$

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Upgrade? Fuggetboutit!

Next move is to park all Colgan Saabs, and those 2007-8 9L Captains will then displace more of our 9E Captains at DTW/JFK and furlough the bottom of the list. Pinnacle will displace all out, with just the quota 541 Captains on the CRJ-200 at that point. Most junior 9E Captain would then be about a Aug 2006 DOH.

You were never entitled to a 3 year upgrade.
 
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