Timebuilder
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John Wayne
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Here is what I don't understand,
Why is it that when those who assert that religion is just as viable a topic as anything else here,take the time to answer questions that I am sure they know will turn to flame bait they get flammed, slammed, called wack jobs etc. but the "non-believer" continues to ask questions.
I want to thank time builder for the 60 sec rundown on the end times. My pastor can't even paint that clear a picture without multiple divergants to other topics.
Next I want to say to the interested non-believer, keep asking questions, read some of the Bible. No one here that I have seen has been judgeing or insisted that their way is the only way to heaven(even is it is). It is by answering questions from you who may be interested that I would hope to walk out my beliefs. It is by walking the walk not just talking the talk that you will know me.
To those who will never be convinced or are offended by religious discussion, move on. If the discussion were that far out of the rhelm of acceptability for this site it would have been removed long ago. Just back out and see what else is on the board if the discussion offends you. No one is making you stay.
GOD BLESS YOU ONE AND ALL
Why is it that when those who assert that religion is just as viable a topic as anything else here,take the time to answer questions that I am sure they know will turn to flame bait they get flammed, slammed, called wack jobs etc. but the "non-believer" continues to ask questions.
I want to thank time builder for the 60 sec rundown on the end times. My pastor can't even paint that clear a picture without multiple divergants to other topics.
Next I want to say to the interested non-believer, keep asking questions, read some of the Bible. No one here that I have seen has been judgeing or insisted that their way is the only way to heaven(even is it is). It is by answering questions from you who may be interested that I would hope to walk out my beliefs. It is by walking the walk not just talking the talk that you will know me.
To those who will never be convinced or are offended by religious discussion, move on. If the discussion were that far out of the rhelm of acceptability for this site it would have been removed long ago. Just back out and see what else is on the board if the discussion offends you. No one is making you stay.
GOD BLESS YOU ONE AND ALL
I'm not a religious person. Spritritual, Yes. Religious, No.
I respect all religions for the sanctity it seems to create in people's lives. I am dissapointed by the unending conflict between the so-called peace-loving faithfuls of this world.
I am, however, forever amazed by the power of God. It seems there is no way to begin (or attempt to halt) a discussion of the subject without the point being made and the message coming through anyway.
So no matter which side of the fence you believe you're on, no one has won and no one has lost this debate. But God has once again spoken.
So who wants to be the first to tell me I'm wrong?
I respect all religions for the sanctity it seems to create in people's lives. I am dissapointed by the unending conflict between the so-called peace-loving faithfuls of this world.
I am, however, forever amazed by the power of God. It seems there is no way to begin (or attempt to halt) a discussion of the subject without the point being made and the message coming through anyway.
So no matter which side of the fence you believe you're on, no one has won and no one has lost this debate. But God has once again spoken.
So who wants to be the first to tell me I'm wrong?
metrodriver
No jobs anymore in here??
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Timebuilder, that whole story you wrote there is your belief, not mine, and in my view just a load of cr@p (OK, now I offended every religious person on this board). I'm with Dieterly about 9-11 and OKC. How about a friend of mine who lost a friend, 30 year old woman with a 4 year old kid, dies of a parasite that eats your heart, or the 4 pilots last week, was this the way god or jesus wanted it??? No way. The 'sinner' in the 4 pilot car crash lives, if there really had been some higher power that guy would have burned to death in his car.
What do I do for easter or christmas? wake up , watch tv, eat something, go to work if I'm scheduled, and go to sleep again in the evening.
I don't see much of a religious aspect in the holidays anymore here in the US. Stores are open till late or even all day. Most other countries have 2 christmas days (25 and 26 dec.), 2 easter days, good friday, and a host of other ones where pretty much everybody is off. For the sake of the almighty dollar those days have gone by the wayside and all we have left is a few hours on 4 days if you are lucky. And what happened to the sunday? Everybody is working except if you have an office job. Thought it was the day that you were required to rest from your weekly activities and devote the day to the church.
When I was a kid we did not exchange gifts on christmas, we did that on a different day, a family tradition that came from the old world long time ago.
The only reason I replied in the first post is to show te religious folks that there are people out there who don't believe, or have different beliefs that do not involve a god or jesus.
And 'spreading the gospel' is in my eyes wrong too. That to me is showing a disrespect for other religions or beliefs. If someone beliefs that a god is mad when there is a thunderstorm and consequently starts a fire to sacrifice the best animal he has, so be it. (I think it's stupid, he would have had a lot of food, milk or other benefits from this animal otherwise). This is the way our european ancesters were 1000 years ago (they had actually a god for every day of the week), and some other people around the world up to a lot more recent day, like the native americans.
What do I do for easter or christmas? wake up , watch tv, eat something, go to work if I'm scheduled, and go to sleep again in the evening.
I don't see much of a religious aspect in the holidays anymore here in the US. Stores are open till late or even all day. Most other countries have 2 christmas days (25 and 26 dec.), 2 easter days, good friday, and a host of other ones where pretty much everybody is off. For the sake of the almighty dollar those days have gone by the wayside and all we have left is a few hours on 4 days if you are lucky. And what happened to the sunday? Everybody is working except if you have an office job. Thought it was the day that you were required to rest from your weekly activities and devote the day to the church.
When I was a kid we did not exchange gifts on christmas, we did that on a different day, a family tradition that came from the old world long time ago.
The only reason I replied in the first post is to show te religious folks that there are people out there who don't believe, or have different beliefs that do not involve a god or jesus.
And 'spreading the gospel' is in my eyes wrong too. That to me is showing a disrespect for other religions or beliefs. If someone beliefs that a god is mad when there is a thunderstorm and consequently starts a fire to sacrifice the best animal he has, so be it. (I think it's stupid, he would have had a lot of food, milk or other benefits from this animal otherwise). This is the way our european ancesters were 1000 years ago (they had actually a god for every day of the week), and some other people around the world up to a lot more recent day, like the native americans.
SushiSlayer
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First, I would like to state that though I am not religeous, I do respect all religions and those who chose to follow them. I must ask though for the Christians that tout the Bible, why is it that if the Bible holds the truth, that the world ran a gamut of other beliefs before Christiananity took hold. Like, for instance the Romans and Greeks believed in many gods to explain the ways of the universe. If the God you refer to created the universe and all in it, why wasn't he known in earlier times? I just don't get it.
How old is the bible? Isn't it like 2000 years or so? I'm sorry but I don't know alot about it's history. I'm just guessing that because I figured Jesus was around the same time all the others who wrote the bible were llike Luke, Job, and those people. Like I said, I don't know much so go easy on me if I way off here. But, if the Bible is 2000 years (or so) what about all the thousands of years before it came into existence? What was the "truth" back then?
And to the individual that wrote this,
The over-commercialized way that most people celebrate these holidays have all but disregarded their religeous roots. I think the true hypocritical ones are the people who claim to be devout Christians and still celebrate these holidays as they are now packaged: The Santa Claus, the gifts, the Easter bunny, etc. I celebrate Christmas because it's fun, not because someone decided to pretend that Jesus' birthday was December 25th, which, from what I understand it wasn't. I don't celebrate Easter because I don't have any kids but if I did, I would because it would be fun for them.
How old is the bible? Isn't it like 2000 years or so? I'm sorry but I don't know alot about it's history. I'm just guessing that because I figured Jesus was around the same time all the others who wrote the bible were llike Luke, Job, and those people. Like I said, I don't know much so go easy on me if I way off here. But, if the Bible is 2000 years (or so) what about all the thousands of years before it came into existence? What was the "truth" back then?
And to the individual that wrote this,
The over-commercialized way that most people celebrate these holidays have all but disregarded their religeous roots. I think the true hypocritical ones are the people who claim to be devout Christians and still celebrate these holidays as they are now packaged: The Santa Claus, the gifts, the Easter bunny, etc. I celebrate Christmas because it's fun, not because someone decided to pretend that Jesus' birthday was December 25th, which, from what I understand it wasn't. I don't celebrate Easter because I don't have any kids but if I did, I would because it would be fun for them.
SushiSlayer
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Timebuilder
Entrepreneur
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Metrodriver: the Bible acknowleges, in so many words, that most people will regard the Gospel as "a load of cr@p". Jesus taught this in the Parable of the Sower, in Luke 8:4-8. You, my fiend, are a part of those upon whom a seed would fall, and not grow.
First, as mentioned above, a lot of things happen that we don't like. They don't seem right, and they don't seem fair.
Why?
Because we see only our limited, human view. We have, at least some of us who are unacquainted with scripture, a view that God should save all "nice" people from accident or death, that all small children should be spared any pain or disfigurement, and that God should eliminate all evil, and he'd better do it RIGHT NOW! Otherwise, we refuse to have anything to do with Him.
This is one of the reasons we are referred to as children throughout the Bible. We want OUR plan to be in place, not God's plan! We don't like it! We want our plan NOW! Waaaaaah!
We see only just so much in the grand scheme of things. Once we were driven from paradise, we lost the perfect world of heaven on earth that God had created. I know this seems very basic, but it is the Biblical explanation. It isn't in God's purpose or plan to act in the manner that you describe at this point in time. The evil that happens to us and our friends on a daily basis has a PURPOSE: to drive us to our knees, to God, to trusting Him for salvation. Since this is God's plan and not ours, we have to play it by HIS rules. It's His only plan, so we are FREE to accept it OR reject it.
Just like using the FAR's in our daily flying, we are best advised to use HIS rules in our daily lives. Then, we are properly prepared for the worst: 9-11, famine, flood, you name it.
That's why we support dozens of missionaries all over the world.
Wrong in your eyes, but required activity according to the Bible, which is the inerrant word of God to the believer. The next time you have a hotel stay, open the nightstand drawer and read Matthew 28:18-20. It is referred to as "The Great Commission".
Man, am I glad you brought up animal sacrifices and pagan belief too. You mention some wonderful points.
The reason that animal sacrifice comes up in both ancient Jewish culture and other "pagan" beliefs is to avoid the wrath of God.
In the Jewish tradittion of the Old Testament, the sacrifice must be the BEST that the individual had to offer. This was to make up for "sin", an old Hebrew word that means "missing the mark". This is a reference to trying to live by The Law, as given by God through Moses, and failing to do so. At the same time, their scripture mentioned that someone was coming to not just "cover up" the sins with animal blood, but to actually take those sins away permanently. That someone is the Messiah, and most Jews still do not recognize Him. Jesus fulfilled ALL of the prophecy that was written of His coming for thousands of years. He is the only one who has done so in the ensuing 2000 or so years since he walked among us.
Sushislayer:
Another good question. This is a lot of work, but you deserve an answer.
God "hard wired" us with a desire to seek Him. Without a clear path to do so, in OUR human opinion, we tend to make up our own ways (our own "plan" as mentioned above) that we find to be a "better" or "more caring" plan, and much of that troubles God. Here's an example.
When a host of pagan beliefs took hold after our ancestors were driven from eden, God identified a man and his family to become the seeds of a new population. His name was Noah. After the flood, sure enough, more pagan beliefs took over, and God focused on the line of Abram for his guidance. He became the father of the Jewish people, and Jesus' human family descended from Abram, whom God called "Israel". Israel the country is named after Israel the man.
To keep this short, the fact that there are many beliefs from many people doesn't make them right. That's why Matthew 28:18-20 is so important. In essence, the fate of everyone is in the successful spreading of the plan of salvation. We are required to do the best job at this that we can, because so many lives are in the balance.
The new testament, that contains the four Gospel accounts (Luke is one of them) was written many years AFTER Jesus was crucified. The time right after the crucifixion is written down in ACTS, as the apostles obeyed the command to "go (ye) into all the world and preach the Gospel".
Age of the Bible: the Bible scripture itself treats this question as unimportant, so Bible scholars are left to scratch their heads. Several old testament books were written by Moses (the Pentatuch) and make up the Jewish Torah. Although Genesis is the first book, it isn't the oldest in terms of writing. Before it was written down, God's word was passed between men in a verbal tradition. The stone tablets given to Moses might have been the first written scipture. I'm not a scholar in this area.
A lot of writers must mean a lot of mistakes, right?
Nope. God guided the writers so that every word is as He wants it to be, according to 2 Timothy, 3:16-17.
You are correct. This time was chosen to "over write" the existing winter solstice pagan holiday, and provided the early church an easy way to bring people to Christ without taking away a time of celebration. The FOCUS of the celebration became the birth of Christ.
The presence of the rabbit in spring celebration is a symbol of fertility. Also around this time, the Jews celebrated the Passover feast and Christ was crucified. Over time, this was all condensed into a single holiday, except from the Jewish perspective.
Well, this took almost two hours, but hopefully somone gained a better understanding from my answers to their questions.
I have a new respect for pastors, for certain.
First, as mentioned above, a lot of things happen that we don't like. They don't seem right, and they don't seem fair.
Why?
Because we see only our limited, human view. We have, at least some of us who are unacquainted with scripture, a view that God should save all "nice" people from accident or death, that all small children should be spared any pain or disfigurement, and that God should eliminate all evil, and he'd better do it RIGHT NOW! Otherwise, we refuse to have anything to do with Him.
This is one of the reasons we are referred to as children throughout the Bible. We want OUR plan to be in place, not God's plan! We don't like it! We want our plan NOW! Waaaaaah!
We see only just so much in the grand scheme of things. Once we were driven from paradise, we lost the perfect world of heaven on earth that God had created. I know this seems very basic, but it is the Biblical explanation. It isn't in God's purpose or plan to act in the manner that you describe at this point in time. The evil that happens to us and our friends on a daily basis has a PURPOSE: to drive us to our knees, to God, to trusting Him for salvation. Since this is God's plan and not ours, we have to play it by HIS rules. It's His only plan, so we are FREE to accept it OR reject it.
Just like using the FAR's in our daily flying, we are best advised to use HIS rules in our daily lives. Then, we are properly prepared for the worst: 9-11, famine, flood, you name it.
That's why we support dozens of missionaries all over the world.
Wrong in your eyes, but required activity according to the Bible, which is the inerrant word of God to the believer. The next time you have a hotel stay, open the nightstand drawer and read Matthew 28:18-20. It is referred to as "The Great Commission".
Man, am I glad you brought up animal sacrifices and pagan belief too. You mention some wonderful points.
The reason that animal sacrifice comes up in both ancient Jewish culture and other "pagan" beliefs is to avoid the wrath of God.
In the Jewish tradittion of the Old Testament, the sacrifice must be the BEST that the individual had to offer. This was to make up for "sin", an old Hebrew word that means "missing the mark". This is a reference to trying to live by The Law, as given by God through Moses, and failing to do so. At the same time, their scripture mentioned that someone was coming to not just "cover up" the sins with animal blood, but to actually take those sins away permanently. That someone is the Messiah, and most Jews still do not recognize Him. Jesus fulfilled ALL of the prophecy that was written of His coming for thousands of years. He is the only one who has done so in the ensuing 2000 or so years since he walked among us.
Sushislayer:
Another good question. This is a lot of work, but you deserve an answer.
God "hard wired" us with a desire to seek Him. Without a clear path to do so, in OUR human opinion, we tend to make up our own ways (our own "plan" as mentioned above) that we find to be a "better" or "more caring" plan, and much of that troubles God. Here's an example.
When a host of pagan beliefs took hold after our ancestors were driven from eden, God identified a man and his family to become the seeds of a new population. His name was Noah. After the flood, sure enough, more pagan beliefs took over, and God focused on the line of Abram for his guidance. He became the father of the Jewish people, and Jesus' human family descended from Abram, whom God called "Israel". Israel the country is named after Israel the man.
To keep this short, the fact that there are many beliefs from many people doesn't make them right. That's why Matthew 28:18-20 is so important. In essence, the fate of everyone is in the successful spreading of the plan of salvation. We are required to do the best job at this that we can, because so many lives are in the balance.
The new testament, that contains the four Gospel accounts (Luke is one of them) was written many years AFTER Jesus was crucified. The time right after the crucifixion is written down in ACTS, as the apostles obeyed the command to "go (ye) into all the world and preach the Gospel".
Age of the Bible: the Bible scripture itself treats this question as unimportant, so Bible scholars are left to scratch their heads. Several old testament books were written by Moses (the Pentatuch) and make up the Jewish Torah. Although Genesis is the first book, it isn't the oldest in terms of writing. Before it was written down, God's word was passed between men in a verbal tradition. The stone tablets given to Moses might have been the first written scipture. I'm not a scholar in this area.
A lot of writers must mean a lot of mistakes, right?
Nope. God guided the writers so that every word is as He wants it to be, according to 2 Timothy, 3:16-17.
You are correct. This time was chosen to "over write" the existing winter solstice pagan holiday, and provided the early church an easy way to bring people to Christ without taking away a time of celebration. The FOCUS of the celebration became the birth of Christ.
The presence of the rabbit in spring celebration is a symbol of fertility. Also around this time, the Jews celebrated the Passover feast and Christ was crucified. Over time, this was all condensed into a single holiday, except from the Jewish perspective.
Well, this took almost two hours, but hopefully somone gained a better understanding from my answers to their questions.
I have a new respect for pastors, for certain.
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I think Mr. Concorde is more mature than a lot of two year olds on this board.
Several people have said it already, and I'll say it again. It's obvious people feel free to share their thoughts, opinions about womanizing, drinking, etc., without getting flamed. So why does someone get flamed for mentioning "God", and "prayer"?
I read the thread about the "best bars." I don't agree with it so guess what: I hit the back button and read something else.
Not too difficult.
Several people have said it already, and I'll say it again. It's obvious people feel free to share their thoughts, opinions about womanizing, drinking, etc., without getting flamed. So why does someone get flamed for mentioning "God", and "prayer"?
I read the thread about the "best bars." I don't agree with it so guess what: I hit the back button and read something else.
Not too difficult.
prodigal
Fiduciary responsibility?
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Timebuilder
Thank you for making the effort and not hiding your light. It takes courage as well as faith, in the face of enmity.
To all the others on the board, Christ also made clear that Christians will be persecuted for their belief in Him, something which we see in abundance here on this board.
Thank you for making the effort and not hiding your light. It takes courage as well as faith, in the face of enmity.
To all the others on the board, Christ also made clear that Christians will be persecuted for their belief in Him, something which we see in abundance here on this board.
RightPedal
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SushiSlayer
Active member
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Timebuilder,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I dont' think I'll ever be convinced - but it is nice to hear people's explanation of their beliefs. It sounds like you have spent quite some time studying your religion and I find that much more respectable than those who tout theirs without knowledge of the religion itself. I see those types all the time. The want me to believe what they say is right, "because it just is..."
In peace,
Sushi.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I dont' think I'll ever be convinced - but it is nice to hear people's explanation of their beliefs. It sounds like you have spent quite some time studying your religion and I find that much more respectable than those who tout theirs without knowledge of the religion itself. I see those types all the time. The want me to believe what they say is right, "because it just is..."
In peace,
Sushi.
RightPedal
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2002
- Posts
- 841
Warning, This thread could be magic, or be offensive to some;/U]
Something for the unbeliever.
It's ok, All believers were once unbelievers to. I know to well why you war with this thing because I was once there myself. That's why GOD's plan so perfect. To think that GOD loved me so much to allow His best, His Son Jesus, to be exicuted for my crime is beyond me. You don't have to understand it, just accept it. This is a personel thing between You and GOD. Nobody needs to know. Get a New Testament, hide somewhere and ask GOD to reveal Himself to you, read the entire book of St John. Put it away and watch what will happen. Worked for me.
Something for the unbeliever.
It's ok, All believers were once unbelievers to. I know to well why you war with this thing because I was once there myself. That's why GOD's plan so perfect. To think that GOD loved me so much to allow His best, His Son Jesus, to be exicuted for my crime is beyond me. You don't have to understand it, just accept it. This is a personel thing between You and GOD. Nobody needs to know. Get a New Testament, hide somewhere and ask GOD to reveal Himself to you, read the entire book of St John. Put it away and watch what will happen. Worked for me.
Timebuilder
Entrepreneur
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 4,625
I like the fact that we can have a difference of opinions here on a whole variety of topics. Some of the topics have branched out from "strictly aviation" because of the events of the past two years, such as 9-11 and the war on terror. Although I have never met any of you in person, I have come to think of you as friends and associates, many with very distinct personalities. Some of you I would invite into my home, and with others I'd have a cup of coffee at the hotel restaurant.
While you may not agree with what I have to say in my posts, at least you have had an exposure to something you may not have explored on your own. That's knowlege, and knowlege is power. It can be the beginning of new ideas for some, and a minor irritation for others. I'd be doing everyone I consider to be a brother a great disservice if I didn't share these things. The value, if any, is strictly up to your own determination.
It's funny. Just like when I was a broadcaster, I'm still a messenger.
Enjoy your day.
While you may not agree with what I have to say in my posts, at least you have had an exposure to something you may not have explored on your own. That's knowlege, and knowlege is power. It can be the beginning of new ideas for some, and a minor irritation for others. I'd be doing everyone I consider to be a brother a great disservice if I didn't share these things. The value, if any, is strictly up to your own determination.
It's funny. Just like when I was a broadcaster, I'm still a messenger.
Enjoy your day.
Timebuilder
Entrepreneur
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DarnNearaJet
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"1) WE (that is to say, MAN) are the responsible party for opening the door to sin. Because of this, evil is in the world, and Satan is the "prince" of this world. Bad things happen, and in great number, including the events you cited. We can act against evil, but we alone are unable to overcome it. It is a part of our heritage."
Timebuilder: How did "we" open the door to sin? Please don't respond with the Adam and Eve fable. Honestly, if we are inherently evil, it is because God created us that way. If you site Adam and Eve, He knew they were going to fall before he created them.
To blame cancer, plagues, war, the holocaust, children dying horrible deaths, Frank Lorenzo, orcas killing baby seals on Satan or Adam's gullibility is a stretch.
"In history, God tends to favor the big armies against the little armies."
Timebuilder: How did "we" open the door to sin? Please don't respond with the Adam and Eve fable. Honestly, if we are inherently evil, it is because God created us that way. If you site Adam and Eve, He knew they were going to fall before he created them.
To blame cancer, plagues, war, the holocaust, children dying horrible deaths, Frank Lorenzo, orcas killing baby seals on Satan or Adam's gullibility is a stretch.
"In history, God tends to favor the big armies against the little armies."
Chickenhawk
Comedian
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Do a search on any of the popular engines for the Highest selling book of all time....you'll find the bible still ranks number one, even with Dr. Phil books on the shelves.
Timebuilder....amazing post. You just passed you English Lit class with an A+.
What I truly love are the folks (nameless) who protest. It baffles me how someone can listen to the radio....hate Eminem...yell about how horrible he is...and continue "listening". Turn the radio off....go to a different post....don't reply.....choose not to. That is where you exercise choice. Not by the hypocracy as brianjohn stated.
Peace.
Timebuilder....amazing post. You just passed you English Lit class with an A+.
What I truly love are the folks (nameless) who protest. It baffles me how someone can listen to the radio....hate Eminem...yell about how horrible he is...and continue "listening". Turn the radio off....go to a different post....don't reply.....choose not to. That is where you exercise choice. Not by the hypocracy as brianjohn stated.
Peace.
Timebuilder
Entrepreneur
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DarnNearaJet, you are darn near being right.
But "close" or "near" only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
For some, the fact that God knew everything before He created us is paradoxical. From our human standpoint, we ask: "why bother?"
Our only clue is that God wants us to come to Him willingly, because we WANT TO. If we were still the perfect happy beings that we were in paradise, and had not succumbed to temptation, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
However, everything worked out according to plan, and we must now make an actual decision of faith. Not because God made a mistake, or created "defective" sinful beings. We took on the defect when we chose to disobey God. Did God know we would fail to obey? Yep. But now the lesson is more clear to us than if He had just sat us down and told us a story. Now, we are living the consequences of our disobedience.
You can call it a myth, a fairy tale, or anything else you like. It's still, thank God, a free country.
Thanks for asking, though.
But "close" or "near" only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
For some, the fact that God knew everything before He created us is paradoxical. From our human standpoint, we ask: "why bother?"
Our only clue is that God wants us to come to Him willingly, because we WANT TO. If we were still the perfect happy beings that we were in paradise, and had not succumbed to temptation, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
However, everything worked out according to plan, and we must now make an actual decision of faith. Not because God made a mistake, or created "defective" sinful beings. We took on the defect when we chose to disobey God. Did God know we would fail to obey? Yep. But now the lesson is more clear to us than if He had just sat us down and told us a story. Now, we are living the consequences of our disobedience.
You can call it a myth, a fairy tale, or anything else you like. It's still, thank God, a free country.
Thanks for asking, though.
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"I don't see much of a religious aspect in the holidays anymore here in the US. Stores are open till late or even all day. Most other countries have 2 christmas days (25 and 26 dec.), 2 easter days, good friday, and a host of other ones where pretty much everybody is off. For the sake of the almighty dollar those days have gone by the wayside and all we have left is a few hours on 4 days if you are lucky. And what happened to the sunday? Everybody is working except if you have an office job."
You my friend are a socialist commie
You my friend are a socialist commie
Timebuilder
Entrepreneur
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 4,625
List, the things in that quote are the result of post-modernism.
As we become more educated and make more medical and technological advances, we start placing more faith in ourselves than God. Before you know it, we are driving God out of our schools, our homes, and our entertainment, and we wonder why teens are getting pregnant and taking drugs and booze in ever-increasing numbers. We don't understand why children are killing children. We look at muslim extremists, and we refuse to acknowlege the reality of evil in our world.
We stand around wondering why, and refuse to take up the "whole armour" that we have been given to defend ourselves.
Funny, isn't it?
As we become more educated and make more medical and technological advances, we start placing more faith in ourselves than God. Before you know it, we are driving God out of our schools, our homes, and our entertainment, and we wonder why teens are getting pregnant and taking drugs and booze in ever-increasing numbers. We don't understand why children are killing children. We look at muslim extremists, and we refuse to acknowlege the reality of evil in our world.
We stand around wondering why, and refuse to take up the "whole armour" that we have been given to defend ourselves.
Funny, isn't it?
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chperplt: Why is it that people who actually come out and talk about their faith in God called "Bible Thumpers", while those who don't care to listen to it do not recieve a label. If you found the cure for cancer would you tell others about it?
I suppose the next comment is that us so called "Bible Thumpers" are close-minded.
It takes more of an open mind to believe in an omnipotent God, than not to.
In reference to the question of where was God on September 11th, here are some lyrics to a song that was released shortly thereafter.
**********************
You say you will never forget where you were when you heard the news on September 11, 2001.
Neither will I.
I was on the 110th floor in a smoke filled room with a man who called his wife to say , "Good-bye."
I held his fingers steady as he dialed
I gave him peace to say, "Honey, I am not going to make it, but it is OK...I am ready to go."
I was with his wife when he called as she fed breakfast to their children.
I held her up as she tried to understand his words and as she realized he wasn't coming home that night.
I was in the stairwell of the 23rd floor when a woman cried out for me for help. "I have been knocking on the door of your heart for 50 years!" I said, of course I will show you the way home - only believe in me now."
I was at the base of the building with the Priest ministering to the injured and devastated souls. I took him home to tend to his flock in Heaven. He heard my voice and answered.
I was on all four of those planes, in every seat, with every prayer. I was with the crew as they were overtaken. I was in the very hearts of the believers there, comforting and assuring them that their faith has saved them.
I was in Texas, Kansas, London. I was standing next to you when you heard the terrible news. Did you sense me?
I want you to know that I saw every face. I knew every name - though not all know me. Some met me for the first time on the 86th floor.
Some sought me with their last breath.
Some couldn't hear me calling to them through the smoke and flames; "Come to me...this way...take my hand." Some chose, for the final time, to ignore me.
I did not place you in the tower that day. You may not know why, but I do. However, if you were there in that explosive moment in time, would you have reached for me?
September 11, 2001 was not the end of the journey for you. But someday your journey will end. And I will be there for you as well. Seek me now while I may be found. Then, at any moment, you know you are "ready to go."
I will be in the stairwell of your final moments.
Remember...I Love you.
******************************
MP3 of song can be found here (right click, save as)
Takes an open mind to really take it in, doesn't it?
I suppose the next comment is that us so called "Bible Thumpers" are close-minded.
It takes more of an open mind to believe in an omnipotent God, than not to.
In reference to the question of where was God on September 11th, here are some lyrics to a song that was released shortly thereafter.
**********************
You say you will never forget where you were when you heard the news on September 11, 2001.
Neither will I.
I was on the 110th floor in a smoke filled room with a man who called his wife to say , "Good-bye."
I held his fingers steady as he dialed
I gave him peace to say, "Honey, I am not going to make it, but it is OK...I am ready to go."
I was with his wife when he called as she fed breakfast to their children.
I held her up as she tried to understand his words and as she realized he wasn't coming home that night.
I was in the stairwell of the 23rd floor when a woman cried out for me for help. "I have been knocking on the door of your heart for 50 years!" I said, of course I will show you the way home - only believe in me now."
I was at the base of the building with the Priest ministering to the injured and devastated souls. I took him home to tend to his flock in Heaven. He heard my voice and answered.
I was on all four of those planes, in every seat, with every prayer. I was with the crew as they were overtaken. I was in the very hearts of the believers there, comforting and assuring them that their faith has saved them.
I was in Texas, Kansas, London. I was standing next to you when you heard the terrible news. Did you sense me?
I want you to know that I saw every face. I knew every name - though not all know me. Some met me for the first time on the 86th floor.
Some sought me with their last breath.
Some couldn't hear me calling to them through the smoke and flames; "Come to me...this way...take my hand." Some chose, for the final time, to ignore me.
I did not place you in the tower that day. You may not know why, but I do. However, if you were there in that explosive moment in time, would you have reached for me?
September 11, 2001 was not the end of the journey for you. But someday your journey will end. And I will be there for you as well. Seek me now while I may be found. Then, at any moment, you know you are "ready to go."
I will be in the stairwell of your final moments.
Remember...I Love you.
******************************
MP3 of song can be found here (right click, save as)
Takes an open mind to really take it in, doesn't it?
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metrodriver
No jobs anymore in here??
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2002
- Posts
- 492
I agree with chprplt with being scared of the (fanatical?) religiousness of people like timebuilder. The folks that did the 9-11 thing were probably evenly religious, albeit a different religion. They are so deep into their beliefs that if someone says that a certain different religion is bad, they are willing to blow themselfs up for it, taking 3000 other people with them. These are the people who walk around with blinders, seeing things only their way, not even being able to understand why someone else thinks or beliefs differently, and consequently want everbody else to be exactly like them. The result of this are the countless wars that have been and are still being fought, sometimes between groups who originally came out of the same church (protestants and catholics in Northern Ireland and some other parts in Europe). The war in former Yugoslavia, Tutsi's and Hutu's in Rwanda, Israel and Palestine, religious prosecution during ww2.....
Bible thumpers is the term chperplt used, I know we are the 'lost souls', people that need to be 'rescued' (from what I've never figured out).
Although I never read a bible, and don't have any inclination to, I do know some of what's in there, just like the koran. In elementary school we had a class about religion, about all the different religions that are out there in the world, what the main ingredients are and what sets them apart. Just information, no preaching. I wish some of the 'bible thumpers' would go through a class like that, might open a few eyes.
Whatever your belief, keep it for yourself, just like sex (or whatever you do in the bedroom), your social security number, bank account number. I don't need to know and I don't want to know.
If you stick to that, we will have some very pleasant flights and layovers together if we ever happen to be flying for the same outfit.
Bible thumpers is the term chperplt used, I know we are the 'lost souls', people that need to be 'rescued' (from what I've never figured out).
Although I never read a bible, and don't have any inclination to, I do know some of what's in there, just like the koran. In elementary school we had a class about religion, about all the different religions that are out there in the world, what the main ingredients are and what sets them apart. Just information, no preaching. I wish some of the 'bible thumpers' would go through a class like that, might open a few eyes.
Whatever your belief, keep it for yourself, just like sex (or whatever you do in the bedroom), your social security number, bank account number. I don't need to know and I don't want to know.
If you stick to that, we will have some very pleasant flights and layovers together if we ever happen to be flying for the same outfit.
Timebuilder
Entrepreneur
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 4,625
What you have described is called evil. You see all beliefs as being equivalent, just as that class in school taught you. This is called ecumenicalism. Frankly, I can't imagine you being "exactly like me". We come from different backgrounds, and have had different experiences. In fact, you would probably see things differently than I do if you took the time to read the Bible, but you don't know that, either. You suppose that it's so.
When you don't have a good, informed reason to hate something, you have to lump it in with other things that people will think are bad, like the actions of some evil people on 9-11. By doing so, you hope some of what they did will rub off on believers in God, simply because they "believe" something, as if the "belief itself" is what is bad. It's like saying that a 152 is the same as a 747 because they both fly.
There is a great difference between having a religious belief and having a belief in God. Northern Ireland is a political conflict, and because the differing parties came from different backgrounds to begin with, the conflict is easily labled as a conflict between two religious groups. Yugoslavia is a war of ethnicity, where the two groups of different ethnic backgrounds happen to come from different beliefs. These political conflicts are no more complicated than a riot between opposing soccer club fans.
What makes you think that believers are deficient in this area? I have also studied Bhuddism, Hinduism, Transcendental Meditation, Silva Mind Control, and Sufism. I hosted a show about New Age beliefs for seven years. I guess I have some stripes, eh?
The belief itself is counter to that: Matthew 28:18-20.
Since I pick when and how I will share this information, you could do a flight or twenty flights with me and never hear a word of the Gospel. I have become adept at picking a person who is ready to hear, and one who will never be ready.
Thanks for a healthy discussion. I have to get to the airport.
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SDF2BUF2MCO
Bird Nerd
- Joined
- May 13, 2002
- Posts
- 7,673
It is interesting that the Bible seems to pierce the heart. People of other religions (e.g., Muslim, Mormonism, etc.) can tell a person about their beliefs yet people typically don't feel threatened. Talk about the Bible and a defense mechanism kicks in.
Granted, the "TV preachers" types have fueled the "whacked out" perception. Personally never felt threatened by them because I doubted if their convictions and faith were true. Jesus disdained hypocrites more than any of us.
Granted, the "TV preachers" types have fueled the "whacked out" perception. Personally never felt threatened by them because I doubted if their convictions and faith were true. Jesus disdained hypocrites more than any of us.
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dsee8driver
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2001
- Posts
- 364
Move on..
Whatever your belief, keep it for yourself, just like sex (or whatever you do in the bedroom), your social security number, bank account number. I don't need to know and I don't want to know.
If you really don't want to know, why not just, MOVE ON! Stop replying and/or reading. This is, afterall, a FREE COUNTRY, where anyone with an opinion can express it. Anytime, anywhere and about anything.
Timebuilder,
I enjoyed reading your posts, thanks for the time and explanations.
Whatever your belief, keep it for yourself, just like sex (or whatever you do in the bedroom), your social security number, bank account number. I don't need to know and I don't want to know.
If you really don't want to know, why not just, MOVE ON! Stop replying and/or reading. This is, afterall, a FREE COUNTRY, where anyone with an opinion can express it. Anytime, anywhere and about anything.
Timebuilder,
I enjoyed reading your posts, thanks for the time and explanations.
SDF2BUF2MCO
Bird Nerd
- Joined
- May 13, 2002
- Posts
- 7,673
From DC8:
"Whatever your belief, keep it for yourself, just like ......
your social security number...."
Sorry, DC8 had to chime in on this one...there are so many people out there that have access to this cursed number (banks, credit cards, cell phone companies, utility companies, about any type of insurance, the college you may have gone to, guberment, etc, etc).
Totally agree with sex life and bank accounts
.
"Whatever your belief, keep it for yourself, just like ......
your social security number...."
Sorry, DC8 had to chime in on this one...there are so many people out there that have access to this cursed number (banks, credit cards, cell phone companies, utility companies, about any type of insurance, the college you may have gone to, guberment, etc, etc).
Totally agree with sex life and bank accounts
.
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