Somebody's Watching Us

[ClassG]

By Metrodriver:

"I agree with chprplt with being scared of the (fanatical?) religiousness of people like timebuilder."



I just came back and reread this entire thread (3 pages worth) and the only posts that seem at all fanatical to me are the ones by Chprplt and Metrodriver. The rest seem to me to be just open discussion of religious beliefs and histrorical interpretations of the Bible.

No one seems to be preaching except those two or three who are obviously threatened by the mere presence of God in our aviation community. No one's going to try and convert you here - I just read back over the ENTIRE thread and I STILL don't feel like I need to go to church. But, I definitely learned a couple things and also would like to thank Timebuilder for caring enough to share his thoughts with those of us who are on a life-long journey to make sense out what we're all doing here.


Do Metrodriver or Chprplt have anything constructive, educational, introspective, philosophical to add to the discussion? Or will it be attack after attack on those who do?

 

[prodigal]

metrodriver. . .

Glad to hear you at least had some exposure to the Bible, in elementary school. That also reflects your level of discourse on the topic.
I understand that you are averse to belief or conversion. But how can you reject that which you do not know first hand?
Just as an intellectual excersize, why don't you read some of the Bible, pref. New Testament, if for no other reason so you can know firsthand what it's all about? Then at least you will have more credibility on the subject.
As Timebuilder also stated, most believers have come to that stage over a long road that led through many other beliefs, or no belief at all (which oddly, is indeed a belief of its own). We've been where you are now, my friend.
Peace.

 

[dmspilot00]

It baffles me how someone can listen to the radio....hate Eminem...yell about how horrible he is...and continue "listening".

People actually do that???????

That explains this thread. If you anti-religious people who wanted the thread removed had just kept your comments to yourself, the post would be on the 5th page of the forum by now. How about that.

"Most people know how to say nothing, few know when."

 

[jumppilot]

That explains this thread. If you anti-religious people who wanted the thread removed had just kept your comments to yourself, the post would be on the 5th page of the forum by now. How about that.

LOL! Yeah, it is now 3 pages long!!!

My bet, it will make it to 5 pages, about the same length of some of Archer's posts, before all is said and done...What do you think?

 

[John Wayne]

I think that TIMEBUILDER has a point when he says that it is our job as believers to spread the gospel. That is the directive given to us in the Word. I like his approach. Inform, educate, provide the real Christian perspective and be available to those who seek to know more. That is the heart of God right there. Not in your face but available.
For those who don't see that let me submit this... Jesus never forced people to think the way he did, never made them believe in him. He educated and left the people to decide for themselves who and what he was. Some folks got it and some did'nt and some would'nt (insert seed parable here)
I have always been somewhat leery of proclaiming my faith. Mostly because of the reactions like those that I see illustrated here by those who would label me a "whack job" or a zelot. Aviation is simply too small a community to be asking for a label like that.
However, I would say that after reading these posts and offering my own fuzzy view of things, I Should try to make myself more available to those around me who might be seeking to know more about what the God thing is all about. Not nessesarily here on the board,(would not want to offend) but just in general. Thanks TIMEBUILDER, and others, for setting an example of what walking it out looks like for real.
I gotta go blow the dust off of my bible now. it has been awhile. I think I need to do some study'un to keep up with Timebuilder : )

 

[chperplt]

chperplt: Why is it that people who actually come out and talk about their faith in God called "Bible Thumpers", while those who don't care to listen to it do not recieve a label. If you found the cure for cancer would you tell others about it?

Iceman21

I not once said that people who talk about their faith in god are called bible thumpers. I did say that one individual, who is attempting to throw his faith down my throat, is a bible thumper. His comments are in line with the views of many skinhead and neo nazi organizations.

ClassG

Reread the thread for the third time... Tell me how my view, that religion and faith, as powerful as it may be to you, should not be left for church or your home? Do you think that there should be prayer in school? Should the government make it's decisions based on the bible?

Is it ok in your mind for people to go door to door trying to convert (or save) everyone?

I like his approach. Inform, educate, provide the real Christian perspective and be available to those who seek to know more. That is the heart of God right there. Not in your face but available.

That's funny.... The real Christian perspective... Does it drive you crazy that Jesus was born and died Jewish?

 

[brianjohn]

jumppilot-
I think you misunderstood what he was saying. I think he was saying that it should by now be tucked away in the archives where nobody is even looking at it anymore.

 

[brianjohn]

chperplt-
Didn't I see you once with Johny Knoxville on some show on MTV?

 

[jumppilot]

jumppilot-
I think you misunderstood what he was saying. I think he was saying that it should by now be tucked away in the archives where nobody is even looking at it anymore.

Brianjohn,

I understood what he meant...I just agree with him. It is funny that so many people who dislike this topic, and would want to see it disappear keep voicing their opinion and bumping it to the top!...


So here it goes.....BUMP!

Personally, I don't care one way or the other..I'm just laughing at all this right now....It was an innocent post and people need to relax, REGARDLESS of what their beliefs are....And unfortunately this won't happen for awhile, no matter what people belive, they all believe they are right (when it comes to topics like this).

 

[brianjohn]

jumppilot-
My bad.
What on earth does "bump" mean anyway?

 

[Dieterly]

While we have been having this dicussion, thousands of children died from starvation, toddlers were raped, priests were "helping" altar (sp) boys. How about if "god" pay attention to the important stuff, instead beeing to busy causing sandstorms in Iraq?

 

[jumppilot]

jumppilot-
My bad.
What on earth does "bump" mean anyway?

Bump can mean two things.

If someone gives good post, you can simply reply "Bump" which means "good post".

It also means bumping the post to the top of the board...Like if you post a question, and no on answers, you can bump it to the top again by replying to your own post.

Note: I didn't put BUMP in my last post to agree/disagree with it, merely pointing out the fact that my post will bump this worn-out topic to the top again.

Edit: I just noticed my post number...hehehe

 

[bunnyfufu]

in my opinion, everything Timebuilder has said on the subject supports the idea that religion is nothing more than a well-developed set of excuses and circular logic... none of it can be proven or disproven because any argument against it can be countered by another argument which can't be proven or disproven... it's pointless to discuss, and it pisses me off to no end that people waste their lives believing in this crap. the only good that comes from religion is the set of morals...

 

[ClassG]

Bunnyfufu:

Besides the tone of your post, I agree with most of what you said here:

You can't logically or factually prove anything about religion except that Faith Exists - And you can't change that with all of the logic in the world.

Even if the ONLY good thing religion ever did was provide a moral code by which we might exist, (relatively) peacefully and in good order, Is THAT so bad? Could we have survived this long without it?

I often wonder whether the legal system would have developed as it has without the influence of religion and it's moral code. Would we really be better off without this influence?
(Please, let's not get into a discussion of how lawyers have perverted the system.)

I guess I just still don't understand why some people are so solidly opposed to a public discusion of religion. It's not much different than discussing art and culture. There's really nothing to oppose. You either get it or you don't.

 

[de727ups]

"and it pisses me off to no end that people waste their lives believing in this crap"

Not sure what it is that pisses you off but we don't think it's crap. A non-believer who isn't interested is never gonna "get it" but those of us who are close to God understand just fine.

My opinion....I don't think God wants to be proven...that's why it's a circular argument. Without faith you can't believe in God. If God were somehow scientifically proven you wouldn't need the faith aspect to believe....that's against the philosophy of free choice that's in the bible and the center of the Christian faith.

I don't bring up my personal views at work. I've flown with guys who are anti-Christian and it's no big deal. If we get to the point in conversation where I talk about my youth ministry work and they change the subject....I realize we don't need to go there. I don't push it from my perspective.

Sounds like some of you feel Christians are pushing themselves on you....it shouldn't be that way....or maybe you are being overly sensitive. God seems to be a big part of our society and, as it is a free country, one must come to the conclusion that most of the people want it that way.

Some think we shouldn't talk about God around here since it's a sensitive subject....none of us are going to change the others minds or opinions, I'd say. Perhaps the "God" threads should say "God" in the subject area and then those who don't want to go there don't need to be offended.

Peace

 

[metrodriver]

quote:
Sounds like some of you feel Christians are pushing themselves on you....it shouldn't be that way....or maybe you are being overly sensitive. .

DE727UPS, that's exactly what happens and that's why I said to keep it for yourself, like the sex and SS and bank account numbers.
A few examples of where it happened: In de jacuzzi at a fitness club, at the swimming pool, at work, in the waiting area at an airport. When you say not to be interested these people just keep going on and on and on saying how bad a person I am and how terribly I'm lost. Please, I just want to relax.
I like your approach a lot better. If someone says no, change the subject. Nowhere in the world have I seen people so pushy on their beliefs as in the US, simply because in a lot of places it can be highly dangerous.

quote:
as it is a free country
Exactly, freedom of religion, which also means freedom of not having a religion, or freedom from religion.

I think some people thought I was posting flamebait. Not so. I was merely trying to explain how quite a lot of people have different feelings. The result is that you get a bunch of bible passages thrown at you, exactly the pushing of religion I wrote a few sentences above.
And am I overly sensitive? Don't think so. It's the same feeling as all the telemarketing calls you receive daily (unless your number is blocked); after a while it gets mighty irritating.

 

[Dieterly]

At least we can agree on that one day we will all die, and that we all will end up 6 feet under with worms eating our brains for breakfast.

 

[chperplt]

Didn't I see you once with Johny Knoxville on some show on MTV?

brianjohn

You're real slick there buddy.. Calling me a jackas@ without actually calling me a jackas@. I bet that took you all day to think up.

Seriously now.. what's wrong? Does the truth bother you? It's ok to pray to him and call him your savior, as long as you pretend he wasn't Jewish? Is that what you're trying to say? Are you an anti-Semite?

I guess since only the chosen people go to heaven, and the bible says the Jews are the chosen people, everyone else gets to enjoy other accommodations.

 

[Typhoon1244]

At least we can agree on that one day we will all die, and that we all will end up 6 feet under with worms eating our brains for breakfast.

Not me! Crematorium, here I come, baby!

Am I the only person who thinks burying dead people is a little sick? What, are we saving them for later?

 

[Timebuilder]

I guess since only the chosen people go to heaven, and the bible says the Jews are the chosen people, everyone else gets to enjoy other accommodations.

Close.

While the Jews are the "chosen people" of the Old Testatment, they have to trust Christ, a Jewish carpenter while he was here, in order to be saved. What the Bible does say is that you have to trust Him, or perish. Jew OR gentile.

I still don't understand how a vigorous discussion, with questions being asked and answered, is somehow "pushing religion down someone's throat". If a reference to a particular passage helps to answer your question, why should it not be a part of the discussion?

Sometimes a person's objections to Christ are based on having incorrect information. Like a POH, the Bible is the only source when you want to be correct about this.

Keep this going if you like, and don't if you won't. I just came back from a two day trip last night, and I'm leaving for another trip today until Monday. On Sunday, you might want to take some time to just think a little about what Easter really means. If you want to learn, I'm here. If not, you might fly with me and never guess what I believe.