Some UAL/CAL News (For Those Interested)

[Flopgut]

Nice try. Try explaining this to the more than 600 former Eastern pilots hired at UAL. You often have valid points, this is not one of them.

K. That was a good thing. It might excuse some poor form on UAL ALPA's part. Except that this SLI(s) is going to include the former FAL pilots (and FAs btw) who previously got screwed by UAL, so it's appropriate to revisit what was done. Especially since Skippy wants to pop off with the following:

Wow, i cant believe ( if u r) a cal pilot is on a high and mighty platform.
1. We treat our new hires and would treat ur furloughees with great brotherhood, class, and respect. If u dont know about our half wingers, ur just embarassing urself, so please stop spewing drivel.
2. Who has more prostitues and scabs ( it may be close but im pretty sure cal does)
3. Who would rather work harder than smarter
4. Who likes quality of life over W-2
5. U may make more per hr, but our retirement is way better, dont u have crappy and expensive insurance, oh , there went ur extra few bucks more per hour
6. How many widebodies did u have? How many planes did we park? Who made more $ ?
7. Are ur days off, really days off? Mine were! Noone makes me fly on them.
8. Its not a recall, its a job offer and it wasnt a merger, ual acquired cal for $23/ share
9. Hired not acquired ( just remember that)
10. About the only thing cal has on ual on is scope, congrats , but to that i retort, who is about to give up almost 50% of their current scope. Hint...its not ual! Lemme guess its all uals's fault?
11. Ual the contract anchor bringing cal down? Lol! One word, paybanding

The majority of both ual/cal guys are mostly nice and civil to each other( please dont ruin that), but if u talk with poor judgement, ill be the first to correct you. Lets not make this a ual vs cal thing bc Noone wins.

Please make sure your merger comm chair walks into day one of SLI talks with the "hired not acquired" battle cry. See how that works for you.

 

[Flopgut]

10. About the only thing cal has on ual on is scope, congrats , but to that i retort, who is about to give up almost 50% of their current scope. Hint...its not ual! Lemme guess its all uals's fault?

Um, hell YES!! It is YOUR fault my scope got wrecked!! How is this even a talking point?! You don't make a bit of sense.

If it's a 50% hit in scope, my MEC is sending back. Yours should too... However, I think jeff knows the bootlickers out number the guys who will fight for scope. Hang in there. We'll show you how to get things done.

 

[Skippy]

Why do u think ur scope got sold out. U honestly think unwere going to keep it in ur next standalone if ual didnt acquire cal? Um. No
Tilton and smisek "colluded." Smisek says i got a scope and an upcoming contract problem, tilton says i got an old 737 and an upcoming contract problem myself. Geee lets get together and solve our respective problems and get rich, delay contract for at least 3 years and in that time make the $ for the new pilot contract. Brilliant!
Dont get mad at me or either of the pilots at either airline for telling it like it is.
U honestly think the sli will be done on the timeline stated, how did our jcba timeline work out. Its gonna be a goatrope.

 

[Skippy]

And flopgut, i firmly believe it will come down to a dal type scenario. More increased mainline jobs ( but which will happen anyway bc of workrules, and flight/duty changes) for less 50s and more 70/76s). I will never vote for dal scope with no growth

 

[Flopgut]

Why do u think ur scope got sold out. U honestly think unwere going to keep it in ur next standalone if ual didnt acquire cal?

Abso-F-ing-lutely!!! jeff had no leverage to take it. He still doesn't. Grow a pair!

I believe jeff and glen did collude in an effort to solve their upcoming contract problems. But only ONE pilot group had real problems; Now we all do. That's a reality we're going to have to fix with this contract. The more I hear rumored to be included in this contract the more I think we're going to have to turn it down. DAL's Scope won't work for us. We've GOT to have more growth airplanes. Period. Every FO (even the most junior) on the lists right now needs to be able to see upgrade in three years or less.

Real difference with these pilot groups: You want to merchandise the SLI and screw someone over. CAL pilots want to get the CONTRACT right so every pilot sees increase. We know how to move on after SLIs. You guys spared yourselves the need for that by stabbing others in the back.

 

[UALRATT]

Talk about someone who thinks they are on a throne...

"Wasting worries"? Not at all. I'm just pointing out that if L-UAL had the better contract, and were being hauled down on pay and scope like the L-CAL guys are by your contract [anchor], you wouldn't even see fit to staple us! Much less give our furloughees a seat. It would be Frontier all over again. Not this time. This will hurt you a lot more than it hurts us CAL guys. Get ready to find out your sh't stinks just like the rest of the world.

Go ahead and act like an ass toward us CAL guys, you always have. But we're the ones who haven't betrayed the process and we're the ones who put your furloughed pilots back to work.

Flop, my original message to Denso (a L-UAL pilot, I assume) had nothing to do with SLI, or CAL vs UAL, so if you're going to participate in a written discussion then read the post in its entirety (including this one), rather than letting single words illicit fears of L-UAL "what ifs" and SLI deliberations. You'll pop your largest artery trying to start a chest beating contest here.

So regarding my original post, if you're in Denso's corner with the belief that the rape of a newly hired pilot is acceptable practice, because that's just historical, and you had to go through that experience, then to each his own and I respect that.

Where it come to who eats whom, you need a refreshed look at CAL's (fit for entry in the Guinness Book) SCAB list. Isn't still the largest ever? Then look no further than the SLI of pilots among the airlines that constitute CAL's current seniority list. The mess with Texas Air, then Frontier and Peoples Express, New York Air and Express Jet, or do you have no clue of all this???

Son if you're read this far, hat's off to you...

 

[densoo]

So regarding my original post, if you're in Denso's corner with the belief that the rape of a newly hired pilot is acceptable practice, because that's just historical, and you had to go through that experience, then to each his own and I respect that.

Wrong. As I said earlier, it's pathetic. No one should have to go through it. But it does seem that some pilots may want sympathy for going through a new hire experience that they have not gone through.

 

[Flopgut]

So regarding my original post, if you're in Denso's corner with the belief that the rape of a newly hired pilot is acceptable practice, because that's just historical, and you had to go through that experience, then to each his own and I respect that.

Rape? Probably too strong a term (to say the least). I believe there should be a standard length of probation for entry level employee candidates where both the company AND the union get to learn about the employee and either side can give them a thumbs down [closed shop]. But, we don't fully have that with right-to-work states.

Two points: 1. If CAL had the furloughs that needed a job right now, And UAL was in CAL's position (vastly better contract) UAL wouldn't be hiring them. 2. If a pilot employee is not on probation and is a member in good standing in the same union, that ought to mean something. But it doesn't to L-UAL guys. As is evidenced by your boy Skippy:

8. Its not a recall, its a job offer and it wasnt a merger, ual acquired cal for $23/ share
9. Hired not acquired ( just remember that).

You guys want to see this place survive after SLI, you're going to have to be predictable overt the next year or so. The ground rules we've laid out either mean something or they don't.

 

[UALRATT]

Rape? Probably too strong a term (to say the least). I believe there should be a standard length of probation for entry level employee candidates where both the company AND the union get to learn about the employee and either side can give them a thumbs down [closed shop]. But, we don't fully have that with right-to-work states.

Two points: 1. If CAL had the furloughs that needed a job right now, And UAL was in CAL's position (vastly better contract) UAL wouldn't be hiring them. 2. If a pilot employee is not on probation and is a member in good standing in the same union, that ought to mean something. But it doesn't to L-UAL guys. As is evidenced by your boy Skippy:



You guys want to see this place survive after SLI, you're going to have to be predictable overt the next year or so. The ground rules we've laid out either mean something or they don't.

I'd hate to be sitting next to you the moment the mediated SLI drops. Picture a spewing jugular, like molten lava out of Hawaii's Kilauea. Flop, if your looking for any goodies coming your way you'd better be the number one guy on the combined list. Conversely, if your attitude is to burn it with your neighbor after d-Day, have a stroke from it. I'll still be contented with working alongside the other reasonably minded pilots from the CAL list.

 

[eaglesview]

Flop, You need to relax. Do you really think the CO side had all the answers and the UA side was completly clueless?? C'mon, try and be a realistic CO pilot and understand your contract sucked, our scope sucked. End result they both sucked. Get over yourself.

 

[Andy]

What I find insulting, is that if the current situation was reversed? I don't think L-UAL would be offering ANYTHING to my fellow L-CAL pilots who were furloughed. Not a damn thing.

You need to check your history and remind yourself what UAL pilot history is and stow your attitude...

Hilarious. Reading the TPA was an order of magnitude too difficult for you?

Jeff loves ignorant pilots.

 

[Andy]

Two points: 1. If CAL had the furloughs that needed a job right now, And UAL was in CAL's position (vastly better contract) UAL wouldn't be hiring them. 2. If a pilot employee is not on probation and is a member in good standing in the same union, that ought to mean something. But it doesn't to L-UAL guys. As is evidenced by your boy Skippy:

SECTION 7-B OF THE TPA.

I'd post the content of section 7-B but there is only a certain level of sloth that I can tolerate. Find it and read it.

Flop, you're being an ignorant jackhole.

 

[Flopgut]

Hilarious. Reading the TPA was an order of magnitude too difficult for you?

Jeff loves ignorant pilots.

I read the TPA. It only exists in the form it does because UAL was in the shape it was in.

I don't remember there being a TPA discussed between UAL and USAir back in the day... Or America West. Certainly wasn't one with Frontier. If I remember correctly, RD made it clear USAir was a "purchase", America West was going to be "dismantled", and of course we all know what you did to Frontier. Let's not forget the "brain surgeon" comment back in the day.

Look guys, I'm not hinting that we are due the equal opposite of what you guys did to past airlines. I'm just saying you should not get a pass on your past behavior. L-UAL guys do a remarkable job of remembering everything that was done wrong at L-CAL over the years. But you can't remember your OWN transgressions AT ALL...

 

[eaglesview]

I read the TPA. It only exists in the form it does because UAL was in the shape it was in.

I don't remember there being a TPA discussed between UAL and USAir back in the day... Or America West. Certainly wasn't one with Frontier. If I remember correctly, RD made it clear USAir was a "purchase", America West was going to be "dismantled", and of course we all know what you did to Frontier. Let's not forget the "brain surgeon" comment back in the day.

Look guys, I'm not hinting that we are due the equal opposite of what you guys did to past airlines. I'm just saying you should not get a pass on your past behavior.

OK now your just being an idiot. Get a life.... Really. Like CO doesn't have "past beahavior." You must stock one hell of a lot of windex for that glass house of yours.

 

[Andy]

I read the TPA. It only exists in the form it does because UAL was in the shape it was in.

I don't remember there being a TPA discussed between UAL and USAir back in the day... Or America West. Certainly wasn't one with Frontier. If I remember correctly, RD made it clear USAir was a "purchase", America West was going to be "dismantled", and of course we all know what you did to Frontier. Let's not forget the "brain surgeon" comment back in the day.

Look guys, I'm not hinting that we are due the equal opposite of what you guys did to past airlines. I'm just saying you should not get a pass on your past behavior.

Nice spin - I assume that's a feeble attempt to deflect attention from your misstatement that LUAL would not hire LCAL furloughees. Here's section 7-B for those that don't have access to the TPA:

7-B. Job Opportunities.​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]

(i) If either Continental or United intends to hire new Pilots, it will first offer employment to fill such positions in seniority order to Pilots on furlough from the other Airline. Acceptance or rejection of such an offer or failure to qualify will not affect a Pilot’s recall rights or placement on the Integrated Seniority List (which shall be based upon his seniority position at the Pilot’s originating Airline). A Pilot accepting an offer under this provision will be subject to the normal background and employment requirements of the employing Airline. The Pilot will be an employee of the employing Airline, within the applicable ALPA council for that Airline, but will not be required to serve or complete a probation period. Such Pilot will be paid the greater of (1) the actual hourly pay rate he was receiving on the date of his furlough, or (2) the hourly pay rate to which his years of service at the employing Airline otherwise entitles.
(ii) No Pilot shall be entitled to more than two (2) offers of employment pursuant to this Section 7-B. If a Pilot declines the first offer, the employing Airline will not contact him for a second offer until he provides at least thirty (30) days notice​

[/FONT][/FONT]11 TENTATIVE AGREEMENT TRANSITION AND PROCESS LOA [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]7/19/10

to the employing Airline in writing of his desire to re-enter the hiring process. At that time he will be eligible for the next available offer in seniority order.
(iii) Pilots employed pursuant to this Section 7-B will exercise seniority for all purposes at the employing Airline in the seniority order of their originating Airline but junior to all Pilots who were on the seniority list of the employing Airline prior to the Merger Agreement Date. Upon implementation of the ISL Pilots will exercise seniority pursuant to their position on the ISL. All Pilots hired by the employing Airline after the Merger Agreement Date who are not Pilots employed pursuant to this Section 7-B will exercise their seniority for all purposes junior to all Pilots who were on either seniority list prior to the Merger Agreement Date.​

(iv) Notwithstanding Section 27, Part 2.A.2, B.2 or C.2 of the Continental CBA, all Pilots on either the United Pilots’ or Continental Pilots’ Seniority List as of the Effective Date of this Agreement employed by Continental shall be eligible for Medical, Dental and Vision Plan coverage on the Pilot’s first day of Active Service.
[/FONT][/FONT]

So anyone who is able to read can clearly see that Flop's statement about LCAL furloughees not being offered jobs at LUAL is not only wrong but completely in left field.
Flop, you are now acting as a management tool. One whose goal is to divide labor with the misguided belief that management will reward you at the expense of LUAL pilots. Jeff loves pilots like you.

As for your off topic commentary about other attempted mergers, they're irrelevent. I view that as an attempt to deflect the topic away from your blatant misstatement about LCAL furloughees being hired at LUAL. Focus. Jeff likes employees that are easily distracted by immaterial diversions.
Jeff likes Flopgut. A lot.

Stop being a management tool.