Some UAL/CAL News (For Those Interested)

[Flopgut]

What's insulting is your illusion that hazing a new-hire is somehow accepted practice and that a LUAL furloughees (voluntary and involuntary), hired at LCAL should feel privileged as you so sentimentally "It wasn't what the UAL pilots are experiencing by any measure." alluded. Rather than sitting there on your throne letting your slack jaw lead your wisdom, you might consider a V-LOA from LUAL to join up at the bottom of the LCAL seniority list. My intuition tells me that yours and eagle's opinions will be different.

What I find insulting, is that if the current situation was reversed? I don't think L-UAL would be offering ANYTHING to my fellow L-CAL pilots who were furloughed. Not a damn thing.

You need to check your history and remind yourself what UAL pilot history is and stow your attitude...

 

[densoo]

...sitting there on your throne letting your slack jaw lead your wisdom...

Left out the "Your mamma so fat, when she walks into a room .... " insult, but still, very nice.

Regarding "hazing," I would disagree. No medical, $29k, no work rules isn't hazing, it's just pathetic, and has likely been that way since the '80s. But since you bring it up one has to wonder, with insistence on "new hire," if there isn't some "woe-is-me-I'm-a-new-hire-at-the-scab-airline, a professional pilot who has descended into the belly of the beast, when I get recalled I will tell you my war stories" going on.

I suppose it's time to capitulate for me though. That last media article (post 18) refers to the UAL pilot furloughees as from "United" but the CAL pilot furloughees as from United's "Continental subsidiary," with no mention that UAL pilots are even flying at the "subsidiary" now, as if all 1457 are still unemployed as pilots, as if Continental doesn't exist.

Oh, yea, it doesn't. Pretty clear since the planes aren't flying anymore.

 

[100/hour/5y]

CAL sucks... I feel bad for the UAL furloughess that have to take the job!

Densoo, the insult was being hired at CAL 2005-2008 with no health ins for 6 months...

 

[UALRATT]

What I find insulting, is that if the current situation was reversed? I don't think L-UAL would be offering ANYTHING to my fellow L-CAL pilots who were furloughed. Not a damn thing.

You need to check your history and remind yourself what UAL pilot history is and stow your attitude...

Flop, live in your own darkness with your hypotheses if it make you feel better. UAL's history pales in comparison to the cutting of throats among the plethora of pilot groups that now make up CAL's seniority list. ...and you're worried about how L-UAL will treat your furloughees? You're wasting worries boss...

 

[UALRATT]

Left out the "Your mamma so fat, when she walks into a room .... " insult, but still, very nice.

Regarding "hazing," I would disagree. No medical, $29k, no work rules isn't hazing, it's just pathetic, and has likely been that way since the '80s. But since you bring it up one has to wonder, with insistence on "new hire," if there isn't some "woe-is-me-I'm-a-new-hire-at-the-scab-airline, a professional pilot who has descended into the belly of the beast, when I get recalled I will tell you my war stories" going on.

I suppose it's time to capitulate for me though. That last media article (post 18) refers to the UAL pilot furloughees as from "United" but the CAL pilot furloughees as from United's "Continental subsidiary," with no mention that UAL pilots are even flying at the "subsidiary" now, as if all 1457 are still unemployed as pilots, as if Continental doesn't exist.

Oh, yea, it doesn't. Pretty clear since the planes aren't flying anymore.

I respect your position. About the article, you should address your concerns with it's author.

 

[densoo]

About the article, you should address your concerns with it's author.

I suppose that will come soon enough as the author says he's just quoting the UAL MEC, and the UAL MEC will be L-CAL's union reps in about six months.

 

[Flopgut]

Flop, live in your own darkness with your hypotheses if it make you feel better. UAL's history pales in comparison to the cutting of throats among the plethora of pilot groups that now make up CAL's seniority list. ...and you're worried about how L-UAL will treat your furloughees? You're wasting worries boss...

Talk about someone who thinks they are on a throne...

"Wasting worries"? Not at all. I'm just pointing out that if L-UAL had the better contract, and were being hauled down on pay and scope like the L-CAL guys are by your contract [anchor], you wouldn't even see fit to staple us! Much less give our furloughees a seat. It would be Frontier all over again. Not this time. This will hurt you a lot more than it hurts us CAL guys. Get ready to find out your sh't stinks just like the rest of the world.

Go ahead and act like an ass toward us CAL guys, you always have. But we're the ones who haven't betrayed the process and we're the ones who put your furloughed pilots back to work.

 

[Ex737Driver]

CAL sucks... I feel bad for the UAL furloughess that have to take the job!

Densoo, the insult was being hired at CAL 2005-2008 with no health ins for 6 months...

Shouldn't you be bitting a pilow somewhere?

 

[eaglesview]

What I find insulting, is that if the current situation was reversed? I don't think L-UAL would be offering ANYTHING to my fellow L-CAL pilots who were furloughed. Not a damn thing.

You need to check your history and remind yourself what UAL pilot history is and stow your attitude...

Nice try. Try explaining this to the more than 600 former Eastern pilots hired at UAL. You often have valid points, this is not one of them.

 

[Skippy]

Talk about someone who thinks they are on a throne...

"Wasting worries"? Not at all. I'm just pointing out that if L-UAL had the better contract, and were being hauled down on pay and scope like the L-CAL guys are by your contract [anchor], you wouldn't even see fit to staple us! Much less give our furloughees a seat. It would be Frontier all over again. Not this time. This will hurt you a lot more than it hurts us CAL guys. Get ready to find out your sh't stinks just like the rest of the world.

Go ahead and act like an ass toward us CAL guys, you always have. But we're the ones who haven't betrayed the process and we're the ones who put your furloughed pilots back to work.

Wow, i cant believe ( if u r) a cal pilot is on a high and mighty platform.
1. We treat our new hires and would treat ur furloughees with great brotherhood, class, and respect. If u dont know about our half wingers, ur just embarassing urself, so please stop spewing drivel.
2. Who has more prostitues and scabs ( it may be close but im pretty sure cal does)
3. Who would rather work harder than smarter
4. Who likes quality of life over W-2
5. U may make more per hr, but our retirement is way better, dont u have crappy and expensive insurance, oh , there went ur extra few bucks more per hour
6. How many widebodies did u have? How many planes did we park? Who made more $ ?
7. Are ur days off, really days off? Mine were! Noone makes me fly on them.
8. Its not a recall, its a job offer and it wasnt a merger, ual acquired cal for $23/ share
9. Hired not acquired ( just remember that)
10. About the only thing cal has on ual on is scope, congrats , but to that i retort, who is about to give up almost 50% of their current scope. Hint...its not ual! Lemme guess its all uals's fault?
11. Ual the contract anchor bringing cal down? Lol! One word, paybanding

The majority of both ual/cal guys are mostly nice and civil to each other( please dont ruin that), but if u talk with poor judgement, ill be the first to correct you. Lets not make this a ual vs cal thing bc Noone wins.

 

[Flopgut]

Nice try. Try explaining this to the more than 600 former Eastern pilots hired at UAL. You often have valid points, this is not one of them.

K. That was a good thing. It might excuse some poor form on UAL ALPA's part. Except that this SLI(s) is going to include the former FAL pilots (and FAs btw) who previously got screwed by UAL, so it's appropriate to revisit what was done. Especially since Skippy wants to pop off with the following:

Wow, i cant believe ( if u r) a cal pilot is on a high and mighty platform.
1. We treat our new hires and would treat ur furloughees with great brotherhood, class, and respect. If u dont know about our half wingers, ur just embarassing urself, so please stop spewing drivel.
2. Who has more prostitues and scabs ( it may be close but im pretty sure cal does)
3. Who would rather work harder than smarter
4. Who likes quality of life over W-2
5. U may make more per hr, but our retirement is way better, dont u have crappy and expensive insurance, oh , there went ur extra few bucks more per hour
6. How many widebodies did u have? How many planes did we park? Who made more $ ?
7. Are ur days off, really days off? Mine were! Noone makes me fly on them.
8. Its not a recall, its a job offer and it wasnt a merger, ual acquired cal for $23/ share
9. Hired not acquired ( just remember that)
10. About the only thing cal has on ual on is scope, congrats , but to that i retort, who is about to give up almost 50% of their current scope. Hint...its not ual! Lemme guess its all uals's fault?
11. Ual the contract anchor bringing cal down? Lol! One word, paybanding

The majority of both ual/cal guys are mostly nice and civil to each other( please dont ruin that), but if u talk with poor judgement, ill be the first to correct you. Lets not make this a ual vs cal thing bc Noone wins.

Please make sure your merger comm chair walks into day one of SLI talks with the "hired not acquired" battle cry. See how that works for you.

 

[Flopgut]

10. About the only thing cal has on ual on is scope, congrats , but to that i retort, who is about to give up almost 50% of their current scope. Hint...its not ual! Lemme guess its all uals's fault?

Um, hell YES!! It is YOUR fault my scope got wrecked!! How is this even a talking point?! You don't make a bit of sense.

If it's a 50% hit in scope, my MEC is sending back. Yours should too... However, I think jeff knows the bootlickers out number the guys who will fight for scope. Hang in there. We'll show you how to get things done.

 

[Skippy]

Why do u think ur scope got sold out. U honestly think unwere going to keep it in ur next standalone if ual didnt acquire cal? Um. No
Tilton and smisek "colluded." Smisek says i got a scope and an upcoming contract problem, tilton says i got an old 737 and an upcoming contract problem myself. Geee lets get together and solve our respective problems and get rich, delay contract for at least 3 years and in that time make the $ for the new pilot contract. Brilliant!
Dont get mad at me or either of the pilots at either airline for telling it like it is.
U honestly think the sli will be done on the timeline stated, how did our jcba timeline work out. Its gonna be a goatrope.

 

[Skippy]

And flopgut, i firmly believe it will come down to a dal type scenario. More increased mainline jobs ( but which will happen anyway bc of workrules, and flight/duty changes) for less 50s and more 70/76s). I will never vote for dal scope with no growth

 

[Flopgut]

Why do u think ur scope got sold out. U honestly think unwere going to keep it in ur next standalone if ual didnt acquire cal?

Abso-F-ing-lutely!!! jeff had no leverage to take it. He still doesn't. Grow a pair!

I believe jeff and glen did collude in an effort to solve their upcoming contract problems. But only ONE pilot group had real problems; Now we all do. That's a reality we're going to have to fix with this contract. The more I hear rumored to be included in this contract the more I think we're going to have to turn it down. DAL's Scope won't work for us. We've GOT to have more growth airplanes. Period. Every FO (even the most junior) on the lists right now needs to be able to see upgrade in three years or less.

Real difference with these pilot groups: You want to merchandise the SLI and screw someone over. CAL pilots want to get the CONTRACT right so every pilot sees increase. We know how to move on after SLIs. You guys spared yourselves the need for that by stabbing others in the back.

 

[UALRATT]

Talk about someone who thinks they are on a throne...

"Wasting worries"? Not at all. I'm just pointing out that if L-UAL had the better contract, and were being hauled down on pay and scope like the L-CAL guys are by your contract [anchor], you wouldn't even see fit to staple us! Much less give our furloughees a seat. It would be Frontier all over again. Not this time. This will hurt you a lot more than it hurts us CAL guys. Get ready to find out your sh't stinks just like the rest of the world.

Go ahead and act like an ass toward us CAL guys, you always have. But we're the ones who haven't betrayed the process and we're the ones who put your furloughed pilots back to work.

Flop, my original message to Denso (a L-UAL pilot, I assume) had nothing to do with SLI, or CAL vs UAL, so if you're going to participate in a written discussion then read the post in its entirety (including this one), rather than letting single words illicit fears of L-UAL "what ifs" and SLI deliberations. You'll pop your largest artery trying to start a chest beating contest here.

So regarding my original post, if you're in Denso's corner with the belief that the rape of a newly hired pilot is acceptable practice, because that's just historical, and you had to go through that experience, then to each his own and I respect that.

Where it come to who eats whom, you need a refreshed look at CAL's (fit for entry in the Guinness Book) SCAB list. Isn't still the largest ever? Then look no further than the SLI of pilots among the airlines that constitute CAL's current seniority list. The mess with Texas Air, then Frontier and Peoples Express, New York Air and Express Jet, or do you have no clue of all this???

Son if you're read this far, hat's off to you...

 

[densoo]

So regarding my original post, if you're in Denso's corner with the belief that the rape of a newly hired pilot is acceptable practice, because that's just historical, and you had to go through that experience, then to each his own and I respect that.

Wrong. As I said earlier, it's pathetic. No one should have to go through it. But it does seem that some pilots may want sympathy for going through a new hire experience that they have not gone through.

 

[Flopgut]

So regarding my original post, if you're in Denso's corner with the belief that the rape of a newly hired pilot is acceptable practice, because that's just historical, and you had to go through that experience, then to each his own and I respect that.

Rape? Probably too strong a term (to say the least). I believe there should be a standard length of probation for entry level employee candidates where both the company AND the union get to learn about the employee and either side can give them a thumbs down [closed shop]. But, we don't fully have that with right-to-work states.

Two points: 1. If CAL had the furloughs that needed a job right now, And UAL was in CAL's position (vastly better contract) UAL wouldn't be hiring them. 2. If a pilot employee is not on probation and is a member in good standing in the same union, that ought to mean something. But it doesn't to L-UAL guys. As is evidenced by your boy Skippy:

8. Its not a recall, its a job offer and it wasnt a merger, ual acquired cal for $23/ share
9. Hired not acquired ( just remember that).

You guys want to see this place survive after SLI, you're going to have to be predictable overt the next year or so. The ground rules we've laid out either mean something or they don't.

 

[UALRATT]

Rape? Probably too strong a term (to say the least). I believe there should be a standard length of probation for entry level employee candidates where both the company AND the union get to learn about the employee and either side can give them a thumbs down [closed shop]. But, we don't fully have that with right-to-work states.

Two points: 1. If CAL had the furloughs that needed a job right now, And UAL was in CAL's position (vastly better contract) UAL wouldn't be hiring them. 2. If a pilot employee is not on probation and is a member in good standing in the same union, that ought to mean something. But it doesn't to L-UAL guys. As is evidenced by your boy Skippy:



You guys want to see this place survive after SLI, you're going to have to be predictable overt the next year or so. The ground rules we've laid out either mean something or they don't.

I'd hate to be sitting next to you the moment the mediated SLI drops. Picture a spewing jugular, like molten lava out of Hawaii's Kilauea. Flop, if your looking for any goodies coming your way you'd better be the number one guy on the combined list. Conversely, if your attitude is to burn it with your neighbor after d-Day, have a stroke from it. I'll still be contented with working alongside the other reasonably minded pilots from the CAL list.

 

[eaglesview]

Flop, You need to relax. Do you really think the CO side had all the answers and the UA side was completly clueless?? C'mon, try and be a realistic CO pilot and understand your contract sucked, our scope sucked. End result they both sucked. Get over yourself.