I have been reading this forum for a while now.
For a quick history, I am a former NetJets owner (G-IV) and FlexJet owner (CL-604). Honest-to-truth. I like to know the ins and outs of what I get into and I can admit that I wish this board existed when making my purchases--both of which I now regret. At first, I only chartered a plane for work, such as a small lear when I needed to visit multiple cities in one day. This made jet travel easy for me as I wouldn't have to leave my family for days at a time. After the jet programs really "took-off" I purchased my first large share (CL-604) at FlexJet in the 90s. Prior to this, I had been chartering different large a/c. If I were thinking with my head I would have realized that FlexJet sales is basically like having a car dealer come to you. If I want to hear that a Mercedes will do XYZ, I'll be told it will. FlexJet told me the works... I'll never be given a chartered plane -- well less than xx% of the time with x hours notice (as if all of Manhattan wasn't already planning on going to SXM or EGE for Christmas). I can upgrade/downgrade to a different sized plane if my needs require it, ANYWHERE I want to go, it can be done. Flight Crew is always rested, aircraft are always maintained, the works...
My eventual sale in my favorite a/c (CL-604) was the cause of many bad incidents here are a sampling:
During a 7 stop trip in one day (9a - 7p) which the pilots were under the impression they were flying me and my team on beginning to end. Dispatch called the plane and had them pick up another pax requiring me to wait in the FBO for 2 hours after I was supposed to leave (we were following the itinerary to the letter) with NO warning to me.
Scheduling an X-mas trip to EGE 2 months out, only to be given an 80's shag carpet (I kid you not) 600 which seemed so old it even freaked out our FA. This same plane was given to us on BOTH LEGS (even though the plane returned to its base). So much for equal or better aircraft! Here's the kicker, SkyJet was using a FlexJet 604 on the same route leaving an hour after us for a charter!
"Short notice" always required me to double the minimum time required.
I was even placed with the same charter operator I used to use on several occasions.
Getting a feeling that I was the problem---although I was very understanding.
After 24 months I had it and moved "up" to a G-IV at NetJets
Got the same schtick but insisted that it be written into my contract that "Equal or better" in the event of charter means that the airplane has to have "equal or better" amenities, baggage, range, and (vintage!) They said it wasn't a problem and getting a smaller a/c for just me would be no problem. They kept praising the laurels of Warren Buffet owning them and Tiger Woods owning a share, etc as if I was going to base my decision on someone who would make money off my purchase and another who was probably getting a significant discount for letting his name be used.
Didn't like the G-IV as much. I get the sense one is a Gulfstream person or they aren't. I found the cabin narrower and not as comfortable for long trips, but my family and employees were happy so I was... for a time!
In an outrageous scenario, I got my first chartered a/c despite having a confirmed tail on my 5th flight. It WAS NOT "equal or better" it was a Falcon 50. I was pissed. I wasn't even informed of it before getting to the airport, but I figured that I would call when I got to LAX. On the runway an engine shut down. Something broke and we needed an new plane. I called NetJets and explained my displeasure at the broken charter a/c and was told they would "call me back soon." 30 minutes later I was told that the “best they could do” is to charter me a new plane in two hours, if I wanted to wait they could fly a new one to me in four. If I were in ASE or EGE I could understand the time it would take. But I was in TEB flying to LAX for a meeting followed by a commercial flight to Tokyo that night. I was spending two days in Tokyo then had to come back to the US and go on a roadshow. I couldn’t miss my flight and to the best of my recollection, NetJets doesn't state that they will hold up an ANA 747! They informed me that there "were no aircraft capable of my trip in TEB so I should sit there and wait as they find a plane in a surrounding airport". I said that I was sure something was available in TEB, and explained my situation. They informed me that they searched “high and low” and took an aggressive tone and said “look, if you can find a plane then go ahead as there are none available to get you to LAX even with a fuel stop, but you are only making the problem worse”. After I hung up, I drove over to Jet Aviation and lo and behold they had a G-IV, and a G-III free that could do the trip. I was in the air in 45 minutes (I still held an account with JetAviation). I called "owners support" from the plane, informed them of whose aircraft I was in and that I would be sending them the bill.
Then there was the situation which involved an authorized passenger (my wife) traveling with her mother, our 5 kids, and friends out of SXM. I had to leave vacation early to work, however as my wife was authorized and NetJets was given the passport info for all passengers in advance I was told "not to worry". A 3 hour mess ensued at SXM in which the manifest had my name on it, not my wife's and I was on a plane to Beijing unaware of this situation and unable to tell them "yes, it was me who told you my wife is authorized to fly without me present." They actually removed her from being the lead passenger and from the manifest completely! It should be noted dispatch would not let the pilots leave. They were totally sympathetic letting my family sit in the plane as it burned fuel rather than the unairconditioned terminal and mentioned that they "wished they never called to make sure things were kosher."
When NetJets was having labor issues you should have heard owner services. Apparently EVERYTHING was the fault of the Pilots. Even the fact that my parent’s Kosher catering was replaced with a seafood platter (no joke) was your fault. In all honesty, I was upset there was no strike! I paid a good sum for my share in a G-IV. I could care less what the maintenance fees and hourly’s are. They are nothing compared to the acquisition cost and depreciation the plane will endure. Concessions would not have led to me paying so much more would have had to sell my share right there.
Alas, with the Owner's Services being a real joke and feeling as if I were one step away from being bounced to some call center in India I threw in the towel. Sold the damn share. Now I charter at a reputable charter operator that I have used for years at negotiated rates and I get what I want without any aggravation or anxiety.
Let me say that I found the flight attendants with both operators to be kind to my family and I, and always helpful. On a 10 hour trip, I am sure that their jobs must suck and be worse than being a waitress at a Denny’s. I know some people like elaborate meals, we just care for cold cuts, diet coke, and a box of Dunkin Donuts. I can imagine that with the meals I know some passengers get, the FA’s job must be rough. The pilots on both operators were also the best. I know there are some pain in the ass owners out there (I know a few myself) but by and large we all appreciate you guys. Why you don't get paid more is always perplexing to me. I am not flying Delta. I am flying a Fracjet operator. I am paying for service. More importantly than hiring incompetent phone operators or sleazy salesmen, I care that the people charged with the safety of flying my family aren't overworked, underpaid, tired, abused, and are happy! I don’t want the pilot worrying about his car payments, mortgage, and trying to find a time to nap as we are on final approach. I think you all should be paid more than anyone at the majors. It's a lot more work. I’ve seen you guys clean toilets, pick up after previous pax, and somehow find time to fly the plane. There’s more passenger interaction; these are passengers who will let your boss know the second they feel they have been slighted. ALWAYS I have called to tell the operator if I had a good crew or experience. After buying the jet, the only person I will actually interact with is the Pilot and FA (if there is one). They are the people I care are happy as they are the face of the company. You should really make this clear with your superiors. I think people are crazy if they wake up today and want to be a pilot. It's a stressful job made worse by unrealistic demands and mismanagement. Thumbs up to all of you for entering this formerly fun field, and I think you deserve what you can get. If management tells you that an owner of a share in a BBJ actually cares about a 1500k increase in monthly costs or a 15% rise in hourly costs, they are dead wrong. They are the wrong type of passenger for you and the wrong kind of client for the operator. They are the ones who will complain about EVERYTHING To this day, I have no idea what those fees were and I don't believe I ever asked...
They need you a hell of a lot more than you need them. What, are the call center folks going to fly the jet?
For a quick history, I am a former NetJets owner (G-IV) and FlexJet owner (CL-604). Honest-to-truth. I like to know the ins and outs of what I get into and I can admit that I wish this board existed when making my purchases--both of which I now regret. At first, I only chartered a plane for work, such as a small lear when I needed to visit multiple cities in one day. This made jet travel easy for me as I wouldn't have to leave my family for days at a time. After the jet programs really "took-off" I purchased my first large share (CL-604) at FlexJet in the 90s. Prior to this, I had been chartering different large a/c. If I were thinking with my head I would have realized that FlexJet sales is basically like having a car dealer come to you. If I want to hear that a Mercedes will do XYZ, I'll be told it will. FlexJet told me the works... I'll never be given a chartered plane -- well less than xx% of the time with x hours notice (as if all of Manhattan wasn't already planning on going to SXM or EGE for Christmas). I can upgrade/downgrade to a different sized plane if my needs require it, ANYWHERE I want to go, it can be done. Flight Crew is always rested, aircraft are always maintained, the works...
My eventual sale in my favorite a/c (CL-604) was the cause of many bad incidents here are a sampling:
During a 7 stop trip in one day (9a - 7p) which the pilots were under the impression they were flying me and my team on beginning to end. Dispatch called the plane and had them pick up another pax requiring me to wait in the FBO for 2 hours after I was supposed to leave (we were following the itinerary to the letter) with NO warning to me.
Scheduling an X-mas trip to EGE 2 months out, only to be given an 80's shag carpet (I kid you not) 600 which seemed so old it even freaked out our FA. This same plane was given to us on BOTH LEGS (even though the plane returned to its base). So much for equal or better aircraft! Here's the kicker, SkyJet was using a FlexJet 604 on the same route leaving an hour after us for a charter!
"Short notice" always required me to double the minimum time required.
I was even placed with the same charter operator I used to use on several occasions.
Getting a feeling that I was the problem---although I was very understanding.
After 24 months I had it and moved "up" to a G-IV at NetJets
Got the same schtick but insisted that it be written into my contract that "Equal or better" in the event of charter means that the airplane has to have "equal or better" amenities, baggage, range, and (vintage!) They said it wasn't a problem and getting a smaller a/c for just me would be no problem. They kept praising the laurels of Warren Buffet owning them and Tiger Woods owning a share, etc as if I was going to base my decision on someone who would make money off my purchase and another who was probably getting a significant discount for letting his name be used.
Didn't like the G-IV as much. I get the sense one is a Gulfstream person or they aren't. I found the cabin narrower and not as comfortable for long trips, but my family and employees were happy so I was... for a time!
In an outrageous scenario, I got my first chartered a/c despite having a confirmed tail on my 5th flight. It WAS NOT "equal or better" it was a Falcon 50. I was pissed. I wasn't even informed of it before getting to the airport, but I figured that I would call when I got to LAX. On the runway an engine shut down. Something broke and we needed an new plane. I called NetJets and explained my displeasure at the broken charter a/c and was told they would "call me back soon." 30 minutes later I was told that the “best they could do” is to charter me a new plane in two hours, if I wanted to wait they could fly a new one to me in four. If I were in ASE or EGE I could understand the time it would take. But I was in TEB flying to LAX for a meeting followed by a commercial flight to Tokyo that night. I was spending two days in Tokyo then had to come back to the US and go on a roadshow. I couldn’t miss my flight and to the best of my recollection, NetJets doesn't state that they will hold up an ANA 747! They informed me that there "were no aircraft capable of my trip in TEB so I should sit there and wait as they find a plane in a surrounding airport". I said that I was sure something was available in TEB, and explained my situation. They informed me that they searched “high and low” and took an aggressive tone and said “look, if you can find a plane then go ahead as there are none available to get you to LAX even with a fuel stop, but you are only making the problem worse”. After I hung up, I drove over to Jet Aviation and lo and behold they had a G-IV, and a G-III free that could do the trip. I was in the air in 45 minutes (I still held an account with JetAviation). I called "owners support" from the plane, informed them of whose aircraft I was in and that I would be sending them the bill.
Then there was the situation which involved an authorized passenger (my wife) traveling with her mother, our 5 kids, and friends out of SXM. I had to leave vacation early to work, however as my wife was authorized and NetJets was given the passport info for all passengers in advance I was told "not to worry". A 3 hour mess ensued at SXM in which the manifest had my name on it, not my wife's and I was on a plane to Beijing unaware of this situation and unable to tell them "yes, it was me who told you my wife is authorized to fly without me present." They actually removed her from being the lead passenger and from the manifest completely! It should be noted dispatch would not let the pilots leave. They were totally sympathetic letting my family sit in the plane as it burned fuel rather than the unairconditioned terminal and mentioned that they "wished they never called to make sure things were kosher."
When NetJets was having labor issues you should have heard owner services. Apparently EVERYTHING was the fault of the Pilots. Even the fact that my parent’s Kosher catering was replaced with a seafood platter (no joke) was your fault. In all honesty, I was upset there was no strike! I paid a good sum for my share in a G-IV. I could care less what the maintenance fees and hourly’s are. They are nothing compared to the acquisition cost and depreciation the plane will endure. Concessions would not have led to me paying so much more would have had to sell my share right there.
Alas, with the Owner's Services being a real joke and feeling as if I were one step away from being bounced to some call center in India I threw in the towel. Sold the damn share. Now I charter at a reputable charter operator that I have used for years at negotiated rates and I get what I want without any aggravation or anxiety.
Let me say that I found the flight attendants with both operators to be kind to my family and I, and always helpful. On a 10 hour trip, I am sure that their jobs must suck and be worse than being a waitress at a Denny’s. I know some people like elaborate meals, we just care for cold cuts, diet coke, and a box of Dunkin Donuts. I can imagine that with the meals I know some passengers get, the FA’s job must be rough. The pilots on both operators were also the best. I know there are some pain in the ass owners out there (I know a few myself) but by and large we all appreciate you guys. Why you don't get paid more is always perplexing to me. I am not flying Delta. I am flying a Fracjet operator. I am paying for service. More importantly than hiring incompetent phone operators or sleazy salesmen, I care that the people charged with the safety of flying my family aren't overworked, underpaid, tired, abused, and are happy! I don’t want the pilot worrying about his car payments, mortgage, and trying to find a time to nap as we are on final approach. I think you all should be paid more than anyone at the majors. It's a lot more work. I’ve seen you guys clean toilets, pick up after previous pax, and somehow find time to fly the plane. There’s more passenger interaction; these are passengers who will let your boss know the second they feel they have been slighted. ALWAYS I have called to tell the operator if I had a good crew or experience. After buying the jet, the only person I will actually interact with is the Pilot and FA (if there is one). They are the people I care are happy as they are the face of the company. You should really make this clear with your superiors. I think people are crazy if they wake up today and want to be a pilot. It's a stressful job made worse by unrealistic demands and mismanagement. Thumbs up to all of you for entering this formerly fun field, and I think you deserve what you can get. If management tells you that an owner of a share in a BBJ actually cares about a 1500k increase in monthly costs or a 15% rise in hourly costs, they are dead wrong. They are the wrong type of passenger for you and the wrong kind of client for the operator. They are the ones who will complain about EVERYTHING To this day, I have no idea what those fees were and I don't believe I ever asked...
They need you a hell of a lot more than you need them. What, are the call center folks going to fly the jet?