Ultra Grump
Mmmmm...beer....
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So what's the story on this latest 400 flameout?
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Looking for a little information on the latest flame out. Because of liability issues the real truth rarely gets out to the masses.
Kudos to the pilots that got it on the ground safely.
How many failures in the last few years??? If it were an airliner they would all be grounded until we found the cause and fix. I guess we'll keep flying them till someone gets hurt!
If you happen to be flying one of these rice burners, I recommend that you let your company and family know about your concerns.
Looking for a little information on the latest flame out. Because of liability issues the real truth rarely gets out to the masses.
Kudos to the pilots that got it on the ground safely.
How many failures in the last few years??? If it were an airliner they would all be grounded until we found the cause and fix. I guess we'll keep flying them till someone gets hurt!
If you happen to be flying one of these rice burners, I recommend that you let your company and family know about your concerns.
What did happen yesterday?I have just finished reading 66 replies to my thread on what the cause might be . I am a FLOPS owner and a scared passenger.Every reply was helpful to me,but no one has figured out what is happening.FLOPS official reply to me was that they believe the plane is safe!pamed19 said:
ASC-LLC
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Here are two of them from the NTSB site:
NTSB Identification: ENG04IA021
Nonscheduled 14 CFR Part 135: Air Taxi & Commuter
Incident occurred Monday, July 12, 2004 in Sarasota, FL
Aircraft: Raytheon Corporate Jets Beechjet 400N, registration: N455CW
Injuries: 9 Uninjured.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On July 12, 2004, at about 1210 EDT, a Beechjet 400A, N455CW, lost all power from both of the installed Pratt & Whitney Canada (PWC) JT15D engines while descending from flight level (FL) 410 to FL 330 over the Gulf of Mexico about 100 miles west of Sarasota, Florida. The pilots reported that they were cruising at FL 410 in instrument meteorological conditions and air traffic control had cleared the airplane to descend to FL 330. The pilots further stated that after they initiated the descent as they were passing through FL 390, they felt a jolt and heard a bang. About 30 seconds later, the pilots stated that they realized the airplane was losing cabin pressure. The pilots stated that they declared an emergency and went through the emergency descent checklist. The pilots stated that at about FL 350, they noticed that every cockpit warning light was illuminated and that both engines were not operating. The pilots stated that after several attempts, they were able to get the No. 2 (right) engine restarted at about 14,000 feet. The pilots stated that after they got the No. 2 engine restarted, they elected to divert to Sarasota because they were relatively close. The airplane was operating on an instrument flight rules flight plan under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 135 from Duncan, Oklahoma to Fort Myers, Florida. The two pilots and seven passengers on board were not injured.
NTSB Identification: DCA06IA007
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Incident occurred Monday, November 28, 2005 in Jacksonville, FL
Aircraft: Raytheon Corporate Jets Beechjet 400, registration: N691TA
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On November 28, 2005, at about 1340 eastern standard time, a Beechjet 400A, N691TA, lost all power from both of the installed Pratt & Whitney Canada (PWC) JT15D-5 engines while descending from flight level (FL) 380 near Jacksonville, Florida. The pilots reported that they were cruising at FL 380 in visual meteorological conditions and air traffic control (ATC) had cleared the airplane to descend to FL 330. The pilots further reported that after they initiated the descent, they heard a loud pop from the right engine followed about 10 seconds later by a loud pop from the left engine. The pilots stated that they observed the engine indicators quickly roll back. The pilots stated that they donned their oxygen masks and declared an emergency when they advised ATC that they had lost both engines and needed to descend to a lower altitude. The pilots reported that ATC then advised them to maintain FL 330 and then FL 270 and replied that they could not maintain either altitude because they had lost both engines. The pilots also stated that ATC then advised the distances to Gainesville and to Jacksonville and they elected to divert to Jacksonville where the weather was better and the runways were longer. The pilots stated that they were vectored to an ILS [instrument landing system] approach to runway 7. After they landed and rolled off of the runway onto a taxiway, the right landing gear tire deflated. The airplane was operating on an instrument flight rules flight plan under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 from Indianapolis, Indiana to Marcos Island, Florida. The two pilots on board were not injured.
The pilots reported that after completing the checklists after the engines lost power, they noted that the standby air speed indicator had gone to zero until the airplane had descended through FL 330 where it resumed indicating an airspeed. The pilot in the right hand seat also reported that his oxygen mask kept slipping out of position requiring that he hold it in place.
NTSB Identification: ENG04IA021
Nonscheduled 14 CFR Part 135: Air Taxi & Commuter
Incident occurred Monday, July 12, 2004 in Sarasota, FL
Aircraft: Raytheon Corporate Jets Beechjet 400N, registration: N455CW
Injuries: 9 Uninjured.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On July 12, 2004, at about 1210 EDT, a Beechjet 400A, N455CW, lost all power from both of the installed Pratt & Whitney Canada (PWC) JT15D engines while descending from flight level (FL) 410 to FL 330 over the Gulf of Mexico about 100 miles west of Sarasota, Florida. The pilots reported that they were cruising at FL 410 in instrument meteorological conditions and air traffic control had cleared the airplane to descend to FL 330. The pilots further stated that after they initiated the descent as they were passing through FL 390, they felt a jolt and heard a bang. About 30 seconds later, the pilots stated that they realized the airplane was losing cabin pressure. The pilots stated that they declared an emergency and went through the emergency descent checklist. The pilots stated that at about FL 350, they noticed that every cockpit warning light was illuminated and that both engines were not operating. The pilots stated that after several attempts, they were able to get the No. 2 (right) engine restarted at about 14,000 feet. The pilots stated that after they got the No. 2 engine restarted, they elected to divert to Sarasota because they were relatively close. The airplane was operating on an instrument flight rules flight plan under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 135 from Duncan, Oklahoma to Fort Myers, Florida. The two pilots and seven passengers on board were not injured.
NTSB Identification: DCA06IA007
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Incident occurred Monday, November 28, 2005 in Jacksonville, FL
Aircraft: Raytheon Corporate Jets Beechjet 400, registration: N691TA
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On November 28, 2005, at about 1340 eastern standard time, a Beechjet 400A, N691TA, lost all power from both of the installed Pratt & Whitney Canada (PWC) JT15D-5 engines while descending from flight level (FL) 380 near Jacksonville, Florida. The pilots reported that they were cruising at FL 380 in visual meteorological conditions and air traffic control (ATC) had cleared the airplane to descend to FL 330. The pilots further reported that after they initiated the descent, they heard a loud pop from the right engine followed about 10 seconds later by a loud pop from the left engine. The pilots stated that they observed the engine indicators quickly roll back. The pilots stated that they donned their oxygen masks and declared an emergency when they advised ATC that they had lost both engines and needed to descend to a lower altitude. The pilots reported that ATC then advised them to maintain FL 330 and then FL 270 and replied that they could not maintain either altitude because they had lost both engines. The pilots also stated that ATC then advised the distances to Gainesville and to Jacksonville and they elected to divert to Jacksonville where the weather was better and the runways were longer. The pilots stated that they were vectored to an ILS [instrument landing system] approach to runway 7. After they landed and rolled off of the runway onto a taxiway, the right landing gear tire deflated. The airplane was operating on an instrument flight rules flight plan under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 from Indianapolis, Indiana to Marcos Island, Florida. The two pilots on board were not injured.
The pilots reported that after completing the checklists after the engines lost power, they noted that the standby air speed indicator had gone to zero until the airplane had descended through FL 330 where it resumed indicating an airspeed. The pilot in the right hand seat also reported that his oxygen mask kept slipping out of position requiring that he hold it in place.
ASC-LLC
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The FAA Office of Accident Investigation is generally is ahead of the NTSB in posting events. No posts on weekends, hence the big balloon in Monday reports.
I didn't see anything there yet.
http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/accident_incident/preliminary_data/
I didn't see anything there yet.
http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/accident_incident/preliminary_data/
ASC-LLC
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The FAA Office of Accident Investigation is usually the first to post incidents/accidents: http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aai/
Click on: Preliminary Accident Data and Incident Data
Nothing seen yet.
Click on: Preliminary Accident Data and Incident Data
Nothing seen yet.
Ultra Grump
Mmmmm...beer....
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Where do you get this info? I have been looking all over for confirmation.As you know from a previous post of mine I am a very reluctant owner in a share of a 400a. Although the FLOPS pilots are wonderful and I have complete confidence in them I am worried.I have this as the 5th flame out recently-4 Beechjets and 1 CII.Ultra Grump said:
starcheckdriver
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Just caught up to this thread tonight. I had posted a seperate thread in the General section a few days ago. I was on the same ATC frequency as the Beechjet that reported the problem. We were in a Lear 60 at FL400 in southern Virginia and talking to Center.
Center was very busy with air traffic and the Beechjet broke into the frequency with a quick "Mayday, Mayday" or "Break, Break" (can't remember the exact phrase used, but it was urgent). They then stated, "Beechjet N???? declaring emergency, dual engine flameout." Center asked for a confirmation of the emergnecy. Beechjet responded, "Affirmative, declaring an emergency, both engines have failed, unable to maintain altitude and request vectors to the nearest airport." Center responded with a vector towards Norfolk (ORF). They were then cleared to a lower altitude. Each transmission from the pilots' voices indicated a very high stress level. In fact, I have never quite heard that panic sound in any pilots voice. I imagine they were very busy navigating to ORF and trying to relight.
In any case, we got a frequency change and attempted to monitor this situation with the other radio. However, we quickly got out of range and last I heard, they were through FL240 with no relight yet, still getting vectored to ORF. Through hearsay, I heard they got one relit and that they landed safely. Lack of news reports probably confirms that.
Also hearsay....I understood the problem to be a poor mixture of prist in the fuel. Who knows? Well, that is my story and I'm sticking to it!
Center was very busy with air traffic and the Beechjet broke into the frequency with a quick "Mayday, Mayday" or "Break, Break" (can't remember the exact phrase used, but it was urgent). They then stated, "Beechjet N???? declaring emergency, dual engine flameout." Center asked for a confirmation of the emergnecy. Beechjet responded, "Affirmative, declaring an emergency, both engines have failed, unable to maintain altitude and request vectors to the nearest airport." Center responded with a vector towards Norfolk (ORF). They were then cleared to a lower altitude. Each transmission from the pilots' voices indicated a very high stress level. In fact, I have never quite heard that panic sound in any pilots voice. I imagine they were very busy navigating to ORF and trying to relight.
In any case, we got a frequency change and attempted to monitor this situation with the other radio. However, we quickly got out of range and last I heard, they were through FL240 with no relight yet, still getting vectored to ORF. Through hearsay, I heard they got one relit and that they landed safely. Lack of news reports probably confirms that.
Also hearsay....I understood the problem to be a poor mixture of prist in the fuel. Who knows? Well, that is my story and I'm sticking to it!
Guitar rocker
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Guitar Guy
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pamed19 said:
"FSI recurrent" is recurrent flight training that is, in this case, conducted by FSI - Flight Safety International. FSI is one of the large pilot training providers. Recurrent training is required by the FAA of captains every 6 months and many of the fractionals put their first officers through the same or similar training on a 6-to-12 month rotation. Recurrent training includes ground school to review systems, performance, etc. along with simulator training emphasizing emergency situations. This training culminates in an oral exam and a checkride in the simulator.
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