So what's next at ASA?

[Speedtape]

The mediator will park us long enough for SKYW to replace us. Look around people. SKYW is hiring 70 a month for aircraft they don't have. The aircraft are going to come from ASA.

SKYW pilots make far more than ASA pilots. Knowing that you can now understand the end game. SKYW is breaking the Unions... don't forget if management settled with us the FA's are right behind us for a new contract.

So you can run around screaming about burning it down. You can take a paycut (and make even less than SKYW). You can do nothing. The result is the same. You will be furloughed or working at an airline with 100 50 seat aircraft. No upgrade, Pay cut for the senior guys, and no movement.

Skywest is hiring 70 for the next few months because they have had attrition each month in the range of 20-25, migrating to other airlines. In addition, due to the depeaking of SFO and LAX by United, additional frequency and flying opportunities have been created. There is more flying for Skywest using the same number of airplanes but more pilots.

 

[Speedtape]

"Our 50 seat pilots are lowest paid in the industry."

Speedtape you might want to check your numbers. We are far from the bottom for 50 seat pay for captains and have one of the best rates in the industry for first officers.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Mesa.

 

[Speedtape]

I found all rates to be somewhat accurate at airlinepilotcentral.com...

Trojan

Trojan,

Off the subject, but why did USC let Arkansas score?

 

[outtahere]

Please keep in mind that the CNC is asking for what we tell them we want. So far I have participated in two Wilson polls, and I have told them that I want a raise and I want a descent retirement, trip and duty rigs, and I am willing to strike over it. Personally I am very pleased with the CNC and the MEC because they are doing what I ask. Now if you don't want what I want, when the Wilson center calls you tell them. Just remember, majority rules and 92% of my peers evidently think like I do.

 

[ASADriver]

There will not be a strike.

The issue is we have been parked by the mediator because he is pissed at the union. Hoser and John will tell me Im nuts, but you do the math. 4 years of negotiating and after last week we are indefinately recessed again. The mediator has every right to release us if he feels it is due. The union is simply too far from realistic to release us. Unless the company capitulates even further to a large degree (unlikely) we will be parked for many months.

Dont get me wrong - the latest proposal from the company should have been offered in back in january, not now. But the union moves 25 cents from 13 percent raises, refuses to budge from no furlough and retirement and wont consider pbs.

We can spin it all we want and make this a great victory for union rights. Our mec will spin this in the lounge as the company offer was nothing not to be taken seriously. They will say the mediator is angry at the company. There will be no strike in the next 6 months, if that. The mediator wont go down that path if he thinks the union is being unrealistic.

In one week we will hit 4 years - there will be picketing, one or two stations will offer coverage and things will go back to normal.

The mec needs to wake up.

Well said skipper!

 

[Crash Pad]

Skywest is hiring 70 for the next few months because they have had attrition each month in the range of 20-25, migrating to other airlines. In addition, due to the depeaking of SFO and LAX by United, additional frequency and flying opportunities have been created. There is more flying for Skywest using the same number of airplanes but more pilots.

ASA has not hired one pilot in months. We don't have attrition? ASA deep sixed the training department. The reason we aren't replacing for attrition is because SKYW is replacing us. They are hiring for our attrition.

What would it take for this pilot group to understand that Union busting is something management loves to do? We have two unions SKYW would love to get rid of.. Us and the FA's. Would SKYW have to walk over one day with 1800 pilots and take all the aircraft at once? All the signs point to a dismantling.

SKYW pilots make more than us. So there is nothing we can do. Jerry has come to break the Union and that is what he is going to do.

 

[ASADriver]

RJSkipper (SH),

Our 50 seat pilots are lowest paid in the industry. Our 70 seat pilots are paid near the low middle of the industry. The 50 seat pilots have not had a raise in 4 years and the 70 seat pilots have not had a raise in 3 years. The cost of living has been close to 3% a year for the last 3 or 4 years. ASA made record profits with a 13% return. The UNION (the ASA pilots in whole) are not being unrealistic.

See you in the crew lounge, LOSER!

Correction, our 50 seat Capt. rates are low. The rest of our rates look like they are near the top already. The company needs to come up some on the 50 seat captain rates, but the rest of the rates look fine to me.

 

[ASADriver]

"Our 50 seat pilots are lowest paid in the industry."

Speedtape you might want to check your numbers. We are far from the bottom for 50 seat pay for captains and have one of the best rates in the industry for first officers.

Our current FO rates look like they are some of the best out there except for Horizon.

 

[ASADriver]

Please keep in mind that the CNC is asking for what we tell them we want. So far I have participated in two Wilson polls, and I have told them that I want a raise and I want a descent retirement, trip and duty rigs, and I am willing to strike over it. Personally I am very pleased with the CNC and the MEC because they are doing what I ask. Now if you don't want what I want, when the Wilson center calls you tell them. Just remember, majority rules and 92% of my peers evidently think like I do.

Is what we are asking for reasonable considering what other regional pilot groups get?

 

[sweptback]

Correction, our 50 seat Capt. rates are low. The rest of our rates look like they are near the top already. The company needs to come up some on the 50 seat captain rates, but the rest of the rates look fine to me.

So if the company really wanted to get this done, why have they not offered us a reasonable raise on the 50 seat rates? 1.6% and their later 0.25% bump is not what I would call reasonable.

Yes, our FO rates are good compared to the rest of the industry. However, that is due to the rest of the industry caving on the FO rates and not making them 60% of the Capt. rates. There is no reason why ASA FOs should take a lesser percentage than the 60% standard, especially with the not-so-short upgrade time here.

 

[outtahere]

Is what we are asking for reasonable considering what other regional pilot groups get?

I don't care! We are the first in a long line of negotiations taking or about to take place. I don't want to impair the companys ability to make money, and I don't believe what we are asking for is going to do that. I want what is fair for you and I, and this is. Will you be happy if we settle for less and after all is said and done some dumbazz like Liarbreque walks away with a bonous for bringing the pilots in so low? Not me! So, stay with the majority and quit acting like you don't like money.

 

[ASADriver]

So if the company really wanted to get this done, why have they not offered us a reasonable raise on the 50 seat rates? 1.6% and their later 0.25% bump is not what I would call reasonable.

Maybe just maybe, the company is being low on the 50 captain rates because the union is being so high on the 70 captain rates and retirement plan. There is probably a deal to be had with higher 50 capt. rates, lower 70 rates, slightly better rigs, some job protection, and PBS. Is everything everyone wants? NO. But is what is probably needed to bring this to an end.

 

[ASADriver]

I don't care! We are the first in a long line of negotiations taking or about to take place. I don't want to impair the companys ability to make money, and I don't believe what we are asking for is going to do that. I want what is fair for you and I, and this is. Will you be happy if we settle for less and after all is said and done some dumbazz like Liarbreque walks away with a bonous for bringing the pilots in so low? Not me! So, stay with the majority and quit acting like you don't like money.

I like money - and losing our 70 seaters to Skywest and shrinking while we continue to work under our current agreement means I make less money than agreeing to more modest improvements and keeping the 70s along with hopefully getting more growth - does that make sense? I don't think more money is really working out well for CMR. The rules have changed - time to get with the new program.

 

[atrdriver]

I like money - and losing our 70 seaters to Skywest and shrinking while we continue to work under our current agreement means I make less money than agreeing to more modest improvements and keeping the 70s along with hopefully getting more growth - does that make sense? I don't think more money is really working out well for CMR. The rules have changed - time to get with the new program.

You say you like money, yet you say that more money didn't work out for anyone and the rules have changed. So you are willing to accept less just to get a contract. Well, concessions for growth didn't work out all that well for CMR either, did they?

Sorry, we carry too much responsibility to have to have 2 jobs just to make ends meet. There is a point that this job just isn't worth it anymore, and ASA is rapidle approaching that point. The last thing in the world that I want to do is strike, as I have been in that situation from both management and labors position. But I am NOT willing to take a paycut just so management can put MY money into their pockets. Maybe you are, but you are thankfully in the minority.

 

[ASADriver]

You say you like money, yet you say that more money didn't work out for anyone and the rules have changed. So you are willing to accept less just to get a contract. Well, concessions for growth didn't work out all that well for CMR either, did they?

Sorry, we carry too much responsibility to have to have 2 jobs just to make ends meet. There is a point that this job just isn't worth it anymore, and ASA is rapidle approaching that point. The last thing in the world that I want to do is strike, as I have been in that situation from both management and labors position. But I am NOT willing to take a paycut just so management can put MY money into their pockets. Maybe you are, but you are thankfully in the minority.

The last offer ISNT CONCESSIONARY. It is better than we have now - not by much, but it is better. And it is better than most other regionals have. I would rather have the last company offer than the current Skywest agreement.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

The last offer ISNT CONCESSIONARY. It is better than we have now - not by much, but it is better. And it is better than most other regionals have. I would rather have the last company offer than the current Skywest agreement.

Please go fail your medical..... badly.... and then lose your typing hand in a car wreck on the way home. I'm just tired of listening to you.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Three words:


ZERO NET GAIN!!!

 

[IFLYASA]

I don't care! We are the first in a long line of negotiations taking or about to take place. I don't want to impair the companys ability to make money, and I don't believe what we are asking for is going to do that.

They could pay us what we want and still make profit. They are just being greedy. The roadshow must have gotten to you.

 

[79%N1]

79%N1,

You called B.S. on my 70 seat statement. You stated that Horizon and Comair are higher, significantly I might add. Chatagua, a DCI carrier, has contractual rates that soon will be at $108 + change. ASA rates fall well below those above.

Now, will you state the rates of the other 70 seat DCI carriers? Will you also state the rates of any other non-DCI 70 seat carriers?

Thanks and looking forward to your post!

Take a look at Eagle, PSA, Skywest, and Mesa. Those are the other 700 operators, and like I said, other than Horizon and Comair (whom has lower concessionary rates) ASA is significantly higher than all of those --- hence management holding firm to at least now freezing those costs, or the ones we have and any future will go elsewhere. Now, most of the folks I come across at work are fine with this. They will adamantly denounce a pay freeze on the 700, and welcome the removal of the aircraft from ASA. Which, logically leads to a downgrade to the 50, hence......wait for it......A PAYCUT!!!!!! Not saying what I think, just an insight to the thought process of some others. OK, I will tell you what I think. Freeze the 700 pay, get strong scope(#1 priority) get the 50/ATR pay inline with the industry, give us the QOL sections, a signing bonus and pay us back with PROFIT SHARING ONLY! No performance bonuses. With the scope (read:job protection)scheduling/reserve, a signing bonus, profit sharing, and good rigs the contract is worth it to me. A good 700 rate is worthless if we don't have any more!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you all think they are bluffing, be my guest. However, we have to sacrifice something to buy things we want most in this contract! Throw them a 700 freeze and pref bidding, and get this d@mn thing done already!!

 

[79%N1]

ASA has not hired one pilot in months. We don't have attrition? ASA deep sixed the training department. The reason we aren't replacing for attrition is because SKYW is replacing us. They are hiring for our attrition.

What would it take for this pilot group to understand that Union busting is something management loves to do? We have two unions SKYW would love to get rid of.. Us and the FA's. Would SKYW have to walk over one day with 1800 pilots and take all the aircraft at once? All the signs point to a dismantling.

SKYW pilots make more than us. So there is nothing we can do. Jerry has come to break the Union and that is what he is going to do.

Good point here. The number I hear all the time is we lose 15-20 pilots/month. Over a small 6 month frame, thats 90-120. However, we havent had one upgrade or new hire in many moons! Things that make you go hmmmm.......