So was B19 right or wrong?

[fischman]

Let's get the facts straight. Look at the turmoil NJ pilots are going through and have been through. Look at the turmoil FLOPS pilots are going through.

You can talk about all the stuff you want.. you and your union brethren have created a lot more hell for your companies than all the others put together.

Oh, and I've said this before.. contracts for management are offered to attract and maintain quality employees.

For that one reason alone, no union will ever be offered a contract. The union will ALWAYS need to resort to the greedy methods of forcing a contract on a company using bully tactics to get what they want because everybody that has ever been involved with a union knows that it's all about the greed and never about the good of the company.

All the crap you mentioned above? It's all trying to fix what the union screwed up. Nothing more... there is no honor in the unions actions above. They are just trying to bail themselves out of something the company shouldn't have been into in the first place.

Your facts are in error. TRUST ME. NJASAP was PROACTIVE in this matter. NOT REACTIVE like management was. This wasn't a bully tactic. We went to NetJets OFFERING help. How is that a bully tactic?

You skirted all my other questions about Avantair. Why is that?

 

[gunfyter]

Avantair is a good plCe to be right now. I am predicting a pilot shortage due to upcoming duty and rest improvements and a 1500 hr Atp requirement for 121 airlines. Also FAA will restrict commuting. Can't jumpseat to work on rest time.



Non-union shops will unionize if managements do not keep up withthe Jones'.

Regionals will have to bump up pay. Next Avantair will follow with raises. Snowball effect will result in pay raise bidding war for pilots industry wide.

19 will voluntarilly take a pay and benefit cut to help company afford to hire pilots they need. You know like when fuel costs go up... Managements always ask employees to take cuts. 19 will take one for the team.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Bwaha bwahahaha bwahahahahahaha. Thanks Gun, I needed a chuckle this morning.

 

[steelersrule74]

19 will voluntarilly take a pay and benefit cut to help company afford to hire pilots they need. You know like when fuel costs go up... Managements always ask employees to take cuts. 19 will take one for the team.

unless those pesky management contracts get in the way. i'm sure though when times are tough B19 and the rest of those 'quality' recruits will not be selfish and will in fact enthusiastically agree to concessions.:beer:

 

[gunfyter]

GSD,

I aim to please....

Look, NJ started Ab-initio in Europe. They were working on it for the US before 9/11 and Osama bin LaidOff ruined things for us,,,,

There is pent up demand! Did people stop flying on Fracs because they love to fly on the airlines? when the economy turns ... shares will be selling like before....

Things change quickly ... you can't time the market ... gotta bet big to win big. I am ALL-IN.

I think NJ is in a good position to cash in when things turn.
Roll those bones.

 

[gutshotdraw]

The Fed will cave on 121 duty and rest regs. Golden Rule: He with the Gold makes the Rules.

While I also believe Netjets is well positioned and led for the future, I also believe the fractional aircraft market has been commoditized much the same way airline seats have been. The consumer is interested in one thing: cost. Brand loyalty is a secondary concern. The entry into the marketplace by several lower cost rivals can only bring downward pressure on pricing and, ultimately, costs (read: labor).

Look no further than our own travel department. They will put us on a crap airline to save $50 a ticket rather than an identical itinerary on our preferred carrier. I believe in competition and creative destruction is the necessary result of capitalism. It's just that I have tempered my expectations for the future and the "pricing power" of aviation labor.

That is not to say I believe we should sell ourselves short or agree to concessions. On the contrary. We should continue to work to prove our legitimate economic value to our employers and our customers. The notion of some "pilot shortage" to drive up demand for our services is, I believe, wishful thinking.

 

[gunfyter]

Maybe. Take a look at today's WSJ. Money and Investing section.

Article. Shh! Wall Street is Spending again. Even mention Flight Options.

Article. The U S economy's Trillion dollar question. Seems there are trillions of dollars sidelined and ready to be spent. As soon as confidence returns.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Your facts are in error. TRUST ME. NJASAP was PROACTIVE in this matter. NOT REACTIVE like management was. This wasn't a bully tactic. We went to NetJets OFFERING help. How is that a bully tactic?

You skirted all my other questions about Avantair. Why is that?

No... big contract meant big cost and the union is trying to get out of what they got themselves into.

Your "proactive" actions are akin to kicking somebody in the shins and then asking him if he's OK and helping him up. You still caused the pain and your actions would have never happened if you hadn't kicked him in the shins.

Oh, I did answer your question and skirted nothing. I stated that I also don't post on other threads that don't interest me. That thread doesn't interest me. I wasn't avoiding it.

 

[B19 Flyer]

19 will voluntarilly take a pay and benefit cut to help company afford to hire pilots they need. You know like when fuel costs go up... Managements always ask employees to take cuts. 19 will take one for the team.

I've taken plenty of pay cuts over the years before the union. That's because management always does the right thing before unions.

 

[gunfyter]

.. That's because management always does the right thing before unions.

Braaahhahha hahahaha lol uhgnnn my sides are hurting... oh... that was a good one.

Oh man ... you owe me a new computer keyboard and a cup of coffee....