So really why do we fly if we ain't gonna get paid?

[avbug]

Well if you count this website, you can chalk me up to the column of never having done that stuff. I do it on duty, with the exception of studying for another rating, which, read this very carefully, is not forced on you (I'm not counting corporate gigs where they might). If you get displaced into different equipment, or otherwised moved without your request, you *gasp* get paid for the training. If you wear the cell or pager on the weekend, then you're either on reserve (not a valid complaint), or you chose to do it. In any case, if you get called in, you get paid for it.

Ralgha, based on your miniresume under your name, you're very low experience....give it a few more years and get a few companies under your belt...some broader experience, and then make the same reply. You won't be a ble to do it honestly.

Big deal about ten years. We all know that back in the day it was not uncommon for pilots to be F/O's for 15+ years only to get furloughed towards the end and get hired with Eastern or Pan Am.

At major airlines, yes. At regionals, even "back in the day," no. More particularly, this person passed through the hottest hiring period in the history of aviation during his tenure with eagle, when upgrades were occuring at the fastest rate and the most consistant rate that they have occured, ever. This wasn't back in the day, this is today, and pre-09/11. Big difference.

 

[Munga]

At major airlines, yes. At regionals, even "back in the day," no. More particularly, this person passed through the hottest hiring period in the history of aviation during his tenure with eagle, when upgrades were occuring at the fastest rate and the most consistant rate that they have occured, ever. This wasn't back in the day, this is today, and pre-09/11. Big difference.

Exactly. If I was at a "career" airline, my outlook would have been different. Eventhough things suck right now at main "major" or "national" airlines, they still better schedules, better benifits, better hotels, better airplanes, better pay, ect. ect.

My biggest mistake was coming to Eagle and staying for as long as I have. Yes, I should have quit and gone to skypest, shaniqua, ASA (don't have a nick for them yet) or a Frax. I made my bed and I have to get out of it, no question. When I got hired at Beagle, we had 18 month upgrades and lots of movement with fleet expansion and people getting hired - so was everybody else but Horizon. Since Eagle was the biggest, I thought that was the best bet for me. But we could talk about should'a would'a could'a all day.

For those of you looking at Regionals, look long and hard. Just cause they have quick upgrades now, doesn't mean they will 2 years from now. Any of their codeshares could liquadate or end their contracts at anytime - then you're screwed. Also look at their contracts, we still have 12 years left on ours - thanks ALPO. Maybe you'll get lucky.

 

[Regul8r]

I see your point, but define "career" airline? You mean Mesa and Skywest? The line between Regionals and Majors is getting fuzzier every day. Regionals are turning into your "career" airlines.

As for "this person passed through the hottest hiring period in the history of aviation." So he got on and went to the back of the bus, it happens...that's aviation.

 

[pilotyip]

It takes about 10 years in a career field to establish yourself, you have invested 6 years. If being with your family is your first priority, then a flying carrer will not meet your first requirement. If being home for all the big events is what you need. Then I think school teacher is the best fit. I was not home for all the big events in my son's life, buy I did have time to teach him how to fly. So what does he do after he is done flying for Uncle Sam, he becomes an airline pilot. Must be my fault because of my lifestyle choice and not being there, if only I had been home every night. LOL

 

[FN FAL]

I see your point, but define "career" airline? You mean Mesa and Skywest? The line between Regionals and Majors is getting fuzzier every day. Regionals are turning into your "career" airlines.

As for "this person passed through the hottest hiring period in the history of aviation." So he got on and went to the back of the bus, it happens...that's aviation.

You mean the regionals are the airline that you work at for the length of a "career", then you get to become the equivelent of a "wal-mart" door greeter by having to fly 135 after you turn age 60, because you can't afford to retire.

 

[satpak77]

how are you defining "well-paid"

still waiting....

 

[Regul8r]

Bingo

You mean the regionals are the airline that you work at for the length of a "career", then you get to become the equivelent of a "wal-mart" door greeter by having to fly 135 after you turn age 60, because you can't afford to retire.

Unfortunately, you're right in many cases FN. It's all the damn Qwidgeybo's running the companies...

 

[Freight Dog]

Munga, if you think you'll be happier doing 9-5, go rent the movie "Office Space."

 

[mocaman]

I cant contribute much advice on the aviation side of things, but I can share about life as a 9-5er (or 3:30p.m.-1:00a.m.er). I work for Ford Motor Company in Chicago at a stamping plant. I am also working on my CFI. Ford has been good to me and my family, but I cant imagine doing factory work for 30+ years. So many times I will be walking into work and will see an airliner or corporate jet lined up for MDW. It always brightens my day to see that, and hope that one day I can get out of Ford and be flying. Ford is gloomy,smelly, dark, and insanely routine. Imagine picking up a something on the left hand side of a table and putting it on the right side 800 times a day. I think it might be like solitary confinement. Anyway, I may not be doing this much longer if Bill Ford has anything to say about it. Ford is planning on "Major Restructuring" to be announced Jan. I only have 4 years seniority so I am kinda nervous about it. The best job I ever had was as a ramper for NWA at MDW. I studied instrument stuff for 4 hours a day and "worked" the other 4. Times are really changing from just a few years ago. My wife is graduating from law school in May 06. She is about 15 out of 170 ish in her class. She is having a tough time finding a job, and getting interviews. Her friend just got a job at a firm as associate and will be making about $35,000 her first year. Sorry for the rambling, I think Ford has reduced my IQ. My point to all of this is....crap I guess i dont have one.

 

[11thHour]

I left flying after a couple years as an FO for a regional (supposedly one of the 'better' regionals). I have a bachelors degree in aviation management. So, I got a job in airport ops, with plans to move into airport management. Initially, I thought I had made a good move. 12 days off a month, $40k a year to start, govt job so stable. After a couple years of that, I realized I had made a big mistake leaving flying. First off, that job sucks. The endless red tape, lack of standardization, horrible office politics, endless meetings. It was a daily misery. Then, the 12 days off were more like 8 each month, becuase they understaffed the departments and then forced overtime. Also, becuase it's a govt job, there is no movement. People become institutionalized and retire out, so I was moving nowhere in regards to schedules and days off, as they were seniority based. Add on to that during snow season, they put you on call at 2am in case of snow. Thing is, we did nothing with snow removal, but management would call us in anyway. At 2am for christ sake! After 3 years, I topped out in pay at 45k. The city froze pay increases. Movement is nil, and promotions essentially happen only when someone dies. I thought about sticking it out to pursue airport management, but even the superintendant was only making 60k a year, and those guys don't have a life. They basically live to work, as they are called in on days off regularly. On top of that, those positions open up VERY rarely, and the competition is absolutely fierce.

So yeah, I was actually FAR happier at the regional, and I've gone back to flying. It's an unstable field, yes. But most industries out there are seeing their benefits cut back, hours increased, pensions cut, or are being outsourced overseas. I tell ya what, after seeing what a friend of mine goes through in the IT industry, I feel happy I never pursued that field like I nearly did.

I wish you the best of luck. I tried the career change thing, and it was a mistake for me. Maybe for you it will be better. Just be realistic in what you hope to achieve. Realize that even 60k is very hard to come by in just about any field. There are exceptions, but they are very hard to come by. I thought about going back to school (which meant more debt - ugh) to get a degree in Finance and/or Economics. They seem to make good money, and are in fairly good demand, especially with a masters. But that meant starting all over, and doing something that would have bored me to tears. Aviation is really a love/hate thing. Somedays I love it, other days I truly hate it. But I realize I could be a corporate drone herded into some office somewhere, getting the life sucked out of me by the flourescent lights and the naggy, gossiping office whores. No thanks. Best of luck, and HAVE A PLAN.