So really why do we fly if we ain't gonna get paid?

[Munga]

Sorry if this has been discussed, but I am going through an early midlife.

I am currently about to leave aviation because I have finally figured out that I will never make the kind of living I truely want. I love flying - period. Its what I have wanted to do since I was about 6 years old. I now have been flying commercially for 10 years. 2.5 year of those were Part 135 king airs and the last 6 have been at Eagle where I haven't done anything but sit right seat in some pretty nice airplanes, make less than my age, and never have any holidays off while still on reserve.

So I have been offered a job, 9-5er, no experience, no training - and it is a decent pay raise with weekend and holidays off. Now I get to see my kids grow up, spend time with my wife, and possibly have quicker money.

But I love flying.....we used to be compensated for missing holidays and such, but 30K a year flying jets all over this country isn't worth it. And now a 6 year FO at NWA is making 60K - that means IF they start hiring after BK, say 3-4 years from now and I get hired, 6 years after that I could make 60K?? I won't upgrade at Eagle for another 1-3 years - if I am lucky.

No decent corporate outfit will call me back since I don't have a lot of pic, or time in type - besides I did the 6 days a week on call, and would rather not. Maybe I just want my cake and eat it too, but 60K 10 years from now won't support my family.

So why do we do this for so little? Is it the hope that we will one day return to the good ole days? Or is it purely that we are addictied to flying and will do it for almost no money? This is the hardest descsion - fly or be grounded until I can afford to do it for fun again.

 

[Sticky]

I hear ya man. I've been flying for 7 years now and still flying piston twins. Much like you, the thought of flying 50 pax in an RJ that used be a mainliner route really bothers me. The reason I'm still in pistons is because I'm able to pull in over $45K a year. I current can't afford to go down to $24K. Just like you, I've been looking to leave piloting. The best I can come up with is saving 15% a year and buy real estate ($5K single acre lots). After a few years, it's possible to do it full time and average $60K a year just buying and selling. Who knows?

What really stings my ass is how the regionals are now flying the same routes that the majors did just a few years ago for a fraction the pay. I hate seeing RJs flying between major cities. At some time, this has got to end.

Good luck with your endeavors.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Sorry if this has been discussed, but I am going through an early midlife.

I am currently about to leave aviation because I have finally figured out that I will never make the kind of living I truely want. I love flying - period. Its what I have wanted to do since I was about 6 years old. I now have been flying commercially for 10 years. 2.5 year of those were Part 135 king airs and the last 6 have been at Eagle where I haven't done anything but sit right seat in some pretty nice airplanes, make less than my age, and never have any holidays off while still on reserve.

So I have been offered a job, 9-5er, no experience, no training - and it is a decent pay raise with weekend and holidays off. Now I get to see my kids grow up, spend time with my wife, and possibly have quicker money.

But I love flying.....we used to be compensated for missing holidays and such, but 30K a year flying jets all over this country isn't worth it. And now a 6 year FO at NWA is making 60K - that means IF they start hiring after BK, say 3-4 years from now and I get hired, 6 years after that I could make 60K?? I won't upgrade at Eagle for another 1-3 years - if I am lucky.

No decent corporate outfit will call me back since I don't have a lot of pic, or time in type - besides I did the 6 days a week on call, and would rather not. Maybe I just want my cake and eat it too, but 60K 10 years from now won't support my family.

So why do we do this for so little? Is it the hope that we will one day return to the good ole days? Or is it purely that we are addictied to flying and will do it for almost no money? This is the hardest descsion - fly or be grounded until I can afford to do it for fun again.

First off I would got the F out of Eagle ASAP. Does not take much to know there is ZERO future there....and poverty wages to boot...lovely. Why have you sat there for 6 years? I would be depressed too.

Why not utilize some of that charter experience you have and give the corp world a go? Yes your first step may be on call charter etc...but decent corp jobs have a much better QOL than most airlines these days (no "on call")...and yes, the pay is usually better also..

How about the fractionals? while they are certainly not par with a good corp gig as far as QOL and pay - they are many times better than any regional out there..

If neither seem reasonable and you are banking on a recovery at the airlines and a return to the way it was --- I would quit tomorrow also, because that simply will never happen.

good luck to ya!

 

[FN FAL]

So why do we do this for so little? Is it the hope that we will one day return to the good ole days? Or is it purely that we are addictied to flying and will do it for almost no money? This is the hardest descsion - fly or be grounded until I can afford to do it for fun again.

What good old days? My buddy's dad is recently retired NWA guy that started during the DC-3 era. I don't know much about how his retirement is doing, but I would think that his genration were the only ones to enjoy those large salaries long enough to make it worthwhile.

 

[Munga]

Well, I am not sure why I am still at Eagle. I guess it is my ever present optimistic side that thinks things will get better. I have been close to upgrade 3 times, only to get pushed back - so I think it is the upgrade I was looking for. You know, PIC time to make myself more competitive, yet keep my seniority and benies. I could care less if I am at an airline - its just pay, schedule, and stability.

I looked at the corporate jobs here in my home town and most of them are also on a part 135 or Fractional lease out. Those pilots are always gone, and the 7 on 7 off thing keeps me away from family a little too much. I have a number of friends who have jumped out - only to be in a similar situation and jumping from job to job every couple of years.

I agree that there are good corporate gigs out there, just haven't been able to land one. Partly, I think, because of the airline stink I carry and partly because I lack jet PIC time. The King Air jobs here are pretty meager - but maybe that is me being picky again.

Thanks for the response. One thing is for sure - get out of EAGLE ASAP.

 

[pilotyip]

munga, if you do a search you will find comments about guys who dropped out of flying only to come back later on. At age 39 after my third job in five years I got out of professional flying. But five years later I went back and have what I consider a good run since that move back into flying 16 years ago.

 

[avbug]

Here we go again. Whine, whine, whine, whine, whine.

Want cheese with that?

How someone can go ten years in their chosen career and not have a clue about the nature of the industry is absolutely beyond me. Increadible. Seems about every two weeks, for years on end, someone posts something like this here. Please talk me out of leaving aviation, I've put in my dues, I'm a ten year veteran (you're just getting to the point where you probably have some concept of how to close the door...and haven't scratched the surface of paying your "dues")...and I'm just discovering that it's a tough row to hoe. Wow.

6 years without an upgrade at eagle? Got caught with the boss's daughter? All right seat? How long do you sit in a position that's paying nothing and going nowhere before you figure it out? Six years?

Do what you have to do, and be happy doing it. If you're not happy, then do something else, already. Have a ball.

Ten years later, you're just getting it???

 

[Munga]

Whine? no. Just getting it? no.

I think you need a nap.

I do know how this industry works, I know there are ups and downs. I was warned of this by mentors who have spent years on furlough, jumping from job to job or have now retired. This down looks like their won't be much of a recovery so I am trying to get happy with a change. Evertime I have started to get a better job, something has gotten in the way. Did 2nd interviewe at Reno - AA bought them and shut the door. Hired at TWA, class cancelled by AA when they bought them too.

I guess I am just looking for opinions from people who got out, only to come back because they were miserable at a 9-5er. I am also looking at opinions about why we do this. Some of us are willing to give up more, some have different ideas about QOL.

This is a big descision, that needs to be looked at from every angle and I am trying to get different angles from other people to see if I have missed any.

Thanks for yours.

 

[FN FAL]

Here we go again. Whine, whine, whine, whine, whine.

Want cheese with that?

...Ten years later, you're just getting it???

We just hired a really neat guy, an EMB age 60 captain from Eagle. He seems to be doing pretty good on IOE, our pilot group really likes the guy. The sad part is, you'd think he'd be done with flying by now.

It's none of my business as to what this guy's reasons are for wanting to fly caravans in a rough weather, scheduled freight environment, but he is here none the less.

So you got that to look forward to, flying all your life at a regional, only to wind up having to make ends meet at age 60 flying freight.

 

[Almerick07]

If you want to keep flying make it work out for you. Dont complain about the pay or schedule, just do a little research and find something that will satisfy your requirements. No reason to get out of flying all together just get a little creative and find a way to make it work.