So now we are not professional...

piav8r

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Wow... coming from the head of the FAA, a former pilot, and a former union president... Maybe if everyone treated us like professionals instead of Greyhound bus drivers things would be different... Thanks Randy!

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=827862&catid=14

Pilots must "refocus" on professionalism...

WASHINGTON -- The nation's top aviation official says the Northwest Airlines pilots who overshot Minneapolis are part of a larger problem of professionalism among commercial airline pilots.
Federal Aviation Administration Administrator Randy Babbitt told an international aviation club on Wednesday that aviation is facing an "extreme need to refocus on professionalism."
He pointed to Northwest Flight 188, which overshot Minneapolis by 150 miles because the pilots were working on their laptops. He also noted the regional airliner that crashed earlier this year near Buffalo, N.Y., killing 50 people.
A former airline pilot and pilot union president, Babbitt says that in both cases the pilots forgot their first job was to focus on flying the plane.
 

no1pilot2000

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It seems like the FAA Admin., Randy Babbitt has gone from pilot to politician.
 

asayankee

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It seems like the FAA Admin., Randy Babbitt has gone from pilot to politician.
Well.....is he wrong? NO! Although it may sting a little to us as pilots, the man is correct.

In one case you have a crew who was either:

A. asleep and f%^&d up
B. engaged in a discussion on company policy and f%^&d up
C. having a scheduling extra help session and f%^&d up
D. engaged in some other weird/sexual crap and f%^&d up

In the other case you had two pilots who seemed to have no idea what was going on at all with:

A. winter ops
B. icing
C. SIC/PM responsibility to speak up
B. stall/spin and tailplane stall scenarios


Now we are ALL susceptible to errors in the cockpit, but these crew really messed up bad. What is wrong with pointing that out? No matter how you look at it, there is a glaring lack of professionalism in both cases. Good for him for trying to make us avoid situations like this. Shame can be a powerful motivator.....
 

Blade Runner

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Well.....is he wrong? NO! Although it may sting a little to us as pilots, the man is correct.
Agreed, I'm looking hard in the mirror. If I can improve I will, regardless of how much money I make.
 

Linedriver

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This profession has changed as a result of the airlines themselves. If pilots were treated as assets instead of liabilities, then we, as a whole, would take more pride in our work.
 

JetFumes

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I think a lot of this is just lip service to protect his own job. What would people think if he said nothing.
 

jonjuan

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This profession has changed as a result of the airlines themselves. If pilots were treated as assets instead of liabilities, then we, as a whole, would take more pride in our work.
SO if the NWA crew in question were given crowns (and double breasters) to wear, this wouldn't have happened?
They screwed the pooch. Quit defending them because they were so demoralized.
 

Caveman

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Well.....is he wrong? NO! Although it may sting a little to us as pilots, the man is correct.

In one case you have a crew who was either:

A. asleep and f%^&d up
B. engaged in a discussion on company policy and f%^&d up
C. having a scheduling extra help session and f%^&d up
D. engaged in some other weird/sexual crap and f%^&d up

In the other case you had two pilots who seemed to have no idea what was going on at all with:

A. winter ops
B. icing
C. SIC/PM responsibility to speak up
B. stall/spin and tailplane stall scenarios


Now we are ALL susceptible to errors in the cockpit, but these crew really messed up bad. What is wrong with pointing that out? No matter how you look at it, there is a glaring lack of professionalism in both cases. Good for him for trying to make us avoid situations like this. Shame can be a powerful motivator.....
Yes, he's wrong.

I don't have a problem casting aspersions on specific crews when they screw up. What I resent is the extremely broad brush he's using to insinuate a larger problem affecting the industry as a whole. The overwhelming majority of pilots I've flown with ARE professional. They fly to SOP, safety is #1 and they do care about customer service and how they represent themselves and their company. There's always a few at every company that we all wish would just go away, but Babbitt was way out of line to lump us all together.
 

Linedriver

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SO if the NWA crew in question were given crowns (and double breasters) to wear, this wouldn't have happened?
They screwed the pooch. Quit defending them because they were so demoralized.

How did you get that out of my post? I am not defending anyone and I am not making a case for or against any airline.

My point is that if the airlines are treating us like busdrivers then that mentality will start to prevail amongst the pilots. Doesn't matter who you or I work for, all the airlines do the same things, for the most part.

The talent will follow the quality of the job. If the job sucks, the talent will go elsewhere.
 

Paul R. Smith

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Darn Kids these days!!!

There stabbing their parents, and setting dogs on fire.
 

snow-back

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How did you get that out of my post? I am not defending anyone and I am not making a case for or against any airline.

My point is that if the airlines are treating us like busdrivers then that mentality will start to prevail amongst the pilots. Doesn't matter who you or I work for, all the airlines do the same things, for the most part.

The talent will follow the quality of the job. If the job sucks, the talent will go elsewhere.
You should KNOW you're not a bus driver. Do you (collectively) really need someone to stroke your ego in order for you to know you're a professional.

You're right about talent going to the quality jobs:D.
 

ATLboeing

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Doesn't matter how much or how little you're paid, how they make you dress, how they treat you, or what they make you fly. When that cockpit door closes I know I have a responsibility not only to our passengers, but to my wife and kids to fly professionally.
Asset or liability, my kids want dad home alive. That argument doesn't hold water, unless you take no pride in yourself. Fly the plane like a pro and let your negotiating committee know what they can do for you.
 

ATLboeing

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Doesn't matter how much or how little you're paid, how they make you dress, how they treat you, or what they make you fly. When that cockpit door closes I know I have a responsibility not only to our passengers, but to my wife and kids to fly professionally.
Asset or liability, my kids want dad home alive. That argument doesn't hold water, unless you take no pride in yourself. Fly the plane like a pro and let your negotiating committee know what they can do for you.
 

BobbyBiplane

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How did you get that out of my post? I am not defending anyone and I am not making a case for or against any airline.

My point is that if the airlines are treating us like busdrivers then that mentality will start to prevail amongst the pilots. Doesn't matter who you or I work for, all the airlines do the same things, for the most part.

The talent will follow the quality of the job. If the job sucks, the talent will go elsewhere.

So Go!
 

igneousy2

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Yes, he's wrong.

I don't have a problem casting aspersions on specific crews when they screw up. What I resent is the extremely broad brush he's using to insinuate a larger problem affecting the industry as a whole. The overwhelming majority of pilots I've flown with ARE professional. They fly to SOP, safety is #1 and they do care about customer service and how they represent themselves and their company. There's always a few at every company that we all wish would just go away, but Babbitt was way out of line to lump us all together.
I'm not doubting what you're saying about the percentage of great crews out there...

but I didn't see anybody on here complaining about being lumped with Sully just a few months ago.

I sadly agree with what Babbitt is saying, we do have a profesionalism crisis...it isn't everybody, but it does seem to be a larger percentage than usual...it doesn't matter what you get paid or what benefits you receive...any amount of unprofesionalism is unacceptable especially in this career.
 

Bringupthebird

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The job has been dumbed down to the point where the quality of individual and the pay they receive is falling in-line. Once you build an airplane that can overcome the shortcomings the pilots are assumed to suffer from (Hint - Airbus), then you really can't expect to attract top-tier people. You get not only what you pay for, but also what you have planned for.

How many crusty 4-stripers would be terrified to take a light twin with round dials into even moderately hard IFR? How many pile them up when they do?
 

Rez O. Lewshun

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This profession has changed as a result of the airlines themselves. If pilots were treated as assets instead of liabilities, then we, as a whole, would take more pride in our work.

You are allowing your environment and circumstances to define your level of professionalism. B-A-D.
 

Rez O. Lewshun

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Yes, he's wrong.

I don't have a problem casting aspersions on specific crews when they screw up. What I resent is the extremely broad brush he's using to insinuate a larger problem affecting the industry as a whole. The overwhelming majority of pilots I've flown with ARE professional. They fly to SOP, safety is #1 and they do care about customer service and how they represent themselves and their company. There's always a few at every company that we all wish would just go away, but Babbitt was way out of line to lump us all together.

Customer service is for FAs and gate agents.... (jB? not that there is anything wrong with that:) )

Why are you offended.. if you are professional then there are no worries.. the fact is the public is shocked.. in that realm we will get no where saying we are pro's when they believe we aren't. Perception is reality.


Also, Babbitt isn't a pilot rep. He is head of the FAA and answers to the White House via the DOT Sec. Not us.
 

JoeMerchant

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You are allowing your environment and circumstances to define your level of professionalism. B-A-D.
I hate to say it...But I agree with Rez.....

Boy was that hard to type......
 
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