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slips

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There isn't anything wrong with slipping the airplane. Just make sure you aren't skidding. Big difference. If you get the buffet then just resume normal flight. It only happens within a certain CG range and is no big deal. Slipping is something you should be comfortable with and is required for several checkrides.

RT
 
My post is long-winded, sorry.

This is a good discussion. It's nice to see the board utilitzed for something other that bellyaching, and RJ pilot v. Mainline Pilot flame wars.

When I was instructing, I always noticed how the slip seemed to be a "lost art" in flying light aircraft. You'd get someone for a flight review and ask them to demonstrate it, and you'd get the 1,000 NM stare.:eek: Followed by a resounding, "Huh?"

For those currently instructing in Cessna singles, here's a little exercise that will surely become an eye-opener: When the student is on the downwind leg of a suitable runway, tell them they have an engine fire and the flaps have become inoperative because the fire has burned through the wiring at the battery and/or the CB popped and cannot be reset. Ask them to follow the engine fire procedure to a forced landing without the use of flaps. Unless they are familiar and comfortable with the forward slip, they will likely end up too high, too fast, and in an overshoot situation. The sight picture is WAAAAYYY different without flaps! And pilots will invariably end up pointing the nose down while slipping... hence the extra speed. I've seen guys come out the no flap-forward slip at over 100 knots, and they have no Earthly way of making a safe landing on a 5,000 ft. runway. After a few practice runs, they get the hang of the sight picture and they become somewhat proficient at putting the airplane down safely in the first 1/3 of the selected field.

Now you might say, "Yeah smart alek, but the Cessna engine fire checklist calls for a dive in excess of 100 knots! Of course the student is going to go too fast!!" Well, you'd be absolutely right on that point. But that is why this is such a great exercise. It not only teaches airmanship skills, it helps develop good judgement. Seriously, are you going to follow the check list and fly the airplane at 120 knots into the ground because you want to put the fire out? Of course not. (How many times have you CFIs given a student an engine failure at altitude and watched the following scenario transpire: The student selects a landing area, the student gets buried in the emergency checklist, the student finally completes the emergency and forced landing checklists and has no idea where the selected landing area is, the student finally identifies the selected landing area and realizes he/she cannot make it there because we are now too low to glide to it. Good thing the student flew the checklist! :rolleyes: ) There comes a time when you have to decide when to accept the fire, have a safe landing, get out, and leave the machine for the insurance company to deal with. Also, when you cut the fuel and mixture, you're pretty much going to cut the fire. Remember the fire triangle from grade school? No fuel, no fire. Besides, that's why Cessna built a firewall. So again, this becomes a great exercise in developing airmanship skills and judgement.

BTW, do not brief the student before hand. Instead, use this exercise to demonstrate how one can really get themselves in a pickle without regular recurrent training, familiarity with equipment, and solid basic airmanship skills. Most students (and especially pilots who are in for their annual or biennial flight review) will appreciate learning additional skills like this. I have often had flight review folks decide to come back for some additional training in other "scenario" type of training exercises... something that was non-existent back when I was learning to fly (e.g. I simply learned power off stalls and that's it, but when I started teaching others, I taught traffic pattern procedures at altitude, leading to a power off stall with a designated "hard deck.") Anyway, this type of training usually led to a discussion of the "FAA Wings" program, and I often had the same students return for the 3rd hour in the program. Do they still do the "Wings" program?

Forward slips were an integral part of learning to fly gliders. My glider students would get pretty good at the "jammed spoiler" landings and could easily put most powered aircraft pilots to shame!;)

Another neat trick for intructors involved the collusion of ATC and the words, "Go around." But I don't want to let the cat out of the bag on that one. CFIs feel free to send a PM, and I'll spill the beans.

Thanks for reading.

Respectfully,

RightBettor, CFII-ME-G, Gold Seal (still got it too!)
 
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RightBettor:

Excellent post!

Yes, they still do the Wings program. I am currently working on phase 3 although I should be working on phase 6 by now. I agree that it is worth while to participate in that.
 
Well we Glider Pilots can put anyone to shame, we fly hundreds of miles without wasting a touch of gas. :D
 
Just curious, has anyone in a C172 ever experienced that "slight buffet" you're supposed to get when doing a forward slip with full flaps? I have not.
 
I have experienced the buffet on a 172N with 40 flaps. It isn't really a big deal though. When you start to feel it just ease up on the control inputs and then reenter the slip.
 
Buzo let me get this right you had 40 of falps in then you did a forward slip? You must having been falling like a rock.

I hope that was a training exercise and not your normal apporach.
 
you had 40 of falps in then you did a forward slip? You must having been falling like a rock.
Sounds like fun to me! better than flaps 20 and 3-4° apch angle...
 
It is not my normal approach. I would rather my students feel the buffet when I am with them rather than on there own. They do come down pretty quick with flaps 40. Not as fast as slipping a 182 with full flaps though.
 
ehhh

It's really too bad that the cessna "slip myth" has scared one too many green students as well as those new to something as stable as the cessna 172/182's.

I've heard them all. Slipping with full flaps is dangerous! the plane will flip over! You'll lose your elevator and lawn dart into the ground!

No, no, no you won't. You'll get down faster and have used a sometimes priceless tool for hitting your spot whether it be an actual emergency, a spot landing for a checkride, or if you just like falling out of the sky on final just for the hell of it.
As stated previously, the only reason that placard (s/p?) is there is for the occasional bufffeting you get which could alarm someone not expecting it. Hell, I've heard of people writing incident reports because that 'buffeting' is not part of normal operations.

Who gave these people pilot's liscenses?
Stop scaring people with this myth that it's even SLIGHTLY dangerous or shouldn't be done. I'm not perfect, if I fly 5 diff airplanes on and off, my spot landing in a 172 might require a little slipping if I've been flying a seneca all week. Just don't stall :)

---T-hawk
 

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