slips

eriknorth

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Alright...I've been hearing differently from different people. I hear that a forward slip should only be used in an emergency situation, except for training and stuff. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it shouldn't be used in the event that you are just high in an approach. That's what I've heard. And that only a side slip should be used in a high approach. Can anyone confirm or refute this?
 

JBHewlett

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For me

It really depends on the circumstance really. I really don't see that there is much problem in doing a forwards slip, at least if you are in a light cessna. However you are not recommended to do forward slips with more then 20 degrees of flaps down. If I do a foward slip I will most always do it with the flaps in the full up position.

Have great one,
J.
 

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Shem Malmquist
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The 20 degree "limit" is only a C-172 thing, and not really a big issue, just keeps things more comfortable. Doesn't apply to other types.

As for using forward slips to get down, really not a problem for any light airplane, but if you are in a large jet it is best saved for emergencies as if you've messed up the approach that badly you should just go around and get it right the next time.
 

ShawnC

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For light airplanes, I prefer slips over flaps. Why is that? Becuase when you pull out of the slip you don't lose lift as you would with flaps.
 

alimaui

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I was taught that there is nothing wrong with doing a forward slip, of course I was in a cherokee at the time so taking advantage of it was not a problem.

But for sure,the next time I fly the concord I will be extra careful when deciding to show my expertise at the maneuver.

Ali
 

Bluto

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Erik North,
Just to clarify, a side-slip is not used to increase rate of descent. It is used to compensate for cross-wind. I personally teach my students that they should be continually correcting for altitude deviations on approach. However, if a slip is necessary to make a normal approach, a go-around is a better option.
 

BigFlyr

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Don't mean to sound like a cowboy but I've experienced, more than once, a full forward slip in a B727 usually when cleared for a close-in visual approach. YAHOO! That's the benefit of flying cargo!...No one to scare but yourself.:eek:

Granted, some speculate that a forward slip in a jet aircraft may not be a good thing as the airflow into the engines can be disrupted, causing compressor stall or worse yet, a flameout.
 
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172driver

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Absolutely nothing wrong with a forward slip in any light Cessna, even with full flaps. The only reason for the recommendation in the 172 is that you may get a buffet as airflow is disturbed over the tail. This is not dangerous, merely disconcerting if not expected. I agree that slips should not be used as a routine maneuver...the approach should be a little more stabilized than that. However, with the new PTS for Commercial and CFI applicants, the slip is going to be used with frequency during the Power off accuracy landing...with full flaps. If you do it right, you will come in high and slip it down.
 

Jump Pilot

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Slips should never show below the bottom of a dress or skirt.
It's very tacky.
 

TurboS7

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Forward slips are a nice tool to have in your back pocket. The other day I was riding into ORF from ATL on DAL.9(MD-88) We were very high when cleared for the visual. The pilots(I don't know who was flying) did a beautiful forward slip right down to the glideslope and we landed nicely. I looked around at the pax. some knew things were a little diffrent but most didn't even notice. I have heard that theMD-80 series slips very nice.
 

aero99

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I agree with Shawn and I have just skipped the flaps on some landings and slipped it.

Some of the older open cockpits that fly around the field at my office don't have flaps, so the slip is standard for them- at least I see them doing it that way about 90% of the time.
 

FlyinBrian

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I'll join the pro-slip crowd. Sometimes I request a short approach just to see how close I can keep it to the field.

As far as with flaps, the 172 will slip just fine at full flaps, but the little bit of buffet can be alarming if unexpected. I think that if you're trying to bleed energy, flaps are a much easier way to to it. If you've unintentionally put youself in a position of needing to bleed energy, I'd use flaps first, then slip. When I'm making short approaches, I do this as well because I can make them shorter that way.

I wouldn't say a slip is a normal maneuver, but it is certainly not to be reserved for emergency situations.
 

Pilotadjuster

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Slip it!

I'll agree on the slip issue. - particularly in a cherokee, even with full flaps. Great for practicing aircraft control, just in case you ever have to make that emergency landing in the only open field in the forest...

Actually, they are a lot of fun; slipping a cherokee with full flaps feels kinda like a helicopter coming in. 1000+ descent rate, going practically nowhere forward...

Done them many times with slam-dunk arrivals requested at SLC. Been over the West runways and been asked to accept runway 14 (east side, short and ends in runway 17) when at 6k (pattern is 5,200). Yet to try that in a 172 w/full flaps yet, as the POH had me convinced the thing will fall out of the sky if you slip with full flaps :rolleyes:
 

aggiepilot87

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172driver said:
I agree that slips should not be used as a routine maneuver...
What if you're flying a plane without flaps? Besides, other than loading the fin/rudder, I see no downside.

my 2¢
 

FlyinBrian

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Done them many times with slam-dunk arrivals requested at SLC. Been over the West runways and been asked to accept runway 14 (east side, short and ends in runway 17) when at 6k (pattern is 5,200).
A well executed short approach can make you really popular with controllers when you can get them out of a bind
 

rumpletumbler

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There isn't anything wrong with slipping the airplane. Just make sure you aren't skidding. Big difference. If you get the buffet then just resume normal flight. It only happens within a certain CG range and is no big deal. Slipping is something you should be comfortable with and is required for several checkrides.

RT
 

RightBettor

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My post is long-winded, sorry.

This is a good discussion. It's nice to see the board utilitzed for something other that bellyaching, and RJ pilot v. Mainline Pilot flame wars.

When I was instructing, I always noticed how the slip seemed to be a "lost art" in flying light aircraft. You'd get someone for a flight review and ask them to demonstrate it, and you'd get the 1,000 NM stare.:eek: Followed by a resounding, "Huh?"

For those currently instructing in Cessna singles, here's a little exercise that will surely become an eye-opener: When the student is on the downwind leg of a suitable runway, tell them they have an engine fire and the flaps have become inoperative because the fire has burned through the wiring at the battery and/or the CB popped and cannot be reset. Ask them to follow the engine fire procedure to a forced landing without the use of flaps. Unless they are familiar and comfortable with the forward slip, they will likely end up too high, too fast, and in an overshoot situation. The sight picture is WAAAAYYY different without flaps! And pilots will invariably end up pointing the nose down while slipping... hence the extra speed. I've seen guys come out the no flap-forward slip at over 100 knots, and they have no Earthly way of making a safe landing on a 5,000 ft. runway. After a few practice runs, they get the hang of the sight picture and they become somewhat proficient at putting the airplane down safely in the first 1/3 of the selected field.

Now you might say, "Yeah smart alek, but the Cessna engine fire checklist calls for a dive in excess of 100 knots! Of course the student is going to go too fast!!" Well, you'd be absolutely right on that point. But that is why this is such a great exercise. It not only teaches airmanship skills, it helps develop good judgement. Seriously, are you going to follow the check list and fly the airplane at 120 knots into the ground because you want to put the fire out? Of course not. (How many times have you CFIs given a student an engine failure at altitude and watched the following scenario transpire: The student selects a landing area, the student gets buried in the emergency checklist, the student finally completes the emergency and forced landing checklists and has no idea where the selected landing area is, the student finally identifies the selected landing area and realizes he/she cannot make it there because we are now too low to glide to it. Good thing the student flew the checklist! :rolleyes: ) There comes a time when you have to decide when to accept the fire, have a safe landing, get out, and leave the machine for the insurance company to deal with. Also, when you cut the fuel and mixture, you're pretty much going to cut the fire. Remember the fire triangle from grade school? No fuel, no fire. Besides, that's why Cessna built a firewall. So again, this becomes a great exercise in developing airmanship skills and judgement.

BTW, do not brief the student before hand. Instead, use this exercise to demonstrate how one can really get themselves in a pickle without regular recurrent training, familiarity with equipment, and solid basic airmanship skills. Most students (and especially pilots who are in for their annual or biennial flight review) will appreciate learning additional skills like this. I have often had flight review folks decide to come back for some additional training in other "scenario" type of training exercises... something that was non-existent back when I was learning to fly (e.g. I simply learned power off stalls and that's it, but when I started teaching others, I taught traffic pattern procedures at altitude, leading to a power off stall with a designated "hard deck.") Anyway, this type of training usually led to a discussion of the "FAA Wings" program, and I often had the same students return for the 3rd hour in the program. Do they still do the "Wings" program?

Forward slips were an integral part of learning to fly gliders. My glider students would get pretty good at the "jammed spoiler" landings and could easily put most powered aircraft pilots to shame!;)

Another neat trick for intructors involved the collusion of ATC and the words, "Go around." But I don't want to let the cat out of the bag on that one. CFIs feel free to send a PM, and I'll spill the beans.

Thanks for reading.

Respectfully,

RightBettor, CFII-ME-G, Gold Seal (still got it too!)
 
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El Cid Av8or

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RightBettor:

Excellent post!

Yes, they still do the Wings program. I am currently working on phase 3 although I should be working on phase 6 by now. I agree that it is worth while to participate in that.
 

ShawnC

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Well we Glider Pilots can put anyone to shame, we fly hundreds of miles without wasting a touch of gas. :D
 

slapstick

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Just curious, has anyone in a C172 ever experienced that "slight buffet" you're supposed to get when doing a forward slip with full flaps? I have not.
 
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