SLI is out, it looks good for both sides

[GuppyWN]

CRJSensa, your FOs have had no growth for 2 years. Now the airtran deal has brought hiring plus an instant 12% bump in relative seniority. I don't care how you try to spin it, that is good for your FOs.
ILoverurban, how exactly is a 5% increase in seniority not a good thing?

And not one WN bro can utilize that "bump" until 2020!

This ought to pass Airtran with 99%! I'd say 100% but I know Kwick aint gonna be happy.

Gup

 

[ngsp]

CRJSensa, with all your 7 post. please continue your job hunting, per your profile, and leave this to the professional pilots at our respective airlines. we do not need the opinion of an outiside amateur on how to conduct our business. the pilots at both airlines will do what is necessary to protect their own, but when it is all done, we will be a stronger, leaner and more profitable than any airline in history.

 

[hairball1173]

Ngsp. That is the coolest avatar ever!!

 

[N1kawotg]

There is no money presented to the SWA side in our briefing. Both sides will have groups pissed off. The SWA guys gain all AAI retirement upgrades till 2020, and elective AAI pilot downgrades seats. That is it. The future deliveries are not growth till all the 300 models are gone. Good luck.

Explain how Swa gets the aai retirements. The Swa side has them that's why a zero growth model has the 2000 plus Swa fo's upgrading first a's they would have without aai. The Swa fo shouldn't be penalized because of an aquisition since pay raises like the aai fo's get weren't offered. The 300 w zero growth was happening without aai anyway. It didn't speed up anything by buying aai.

 

[ASADFW7]

What the SWAPA pilots get is all the 90 or so AAI retirements from transition to 2020, and any elective AAI captain down grade, everything else, was already coming to SWAPA. The AAI pilots may say what about the growth from aircraft orders. Well until all the 300s are gone there is no growth, and all orders are owned now by SWA which have to be flown by SWAPA pilots already.

 

[jonjuan]

It'll pass on the SWA side.

Funny how the critter team sold out their F/O's so their Capts could keep their seats. So sad.

Exactly what swa did-all they need is to get 51% at AAI to say yes. As I said before, 85% yes on swapa side as it's a dream deal for them. GLTA....

 

[Ualexpress]

Airtran will retire 150 pilots through 2020. I also imagine there will be a number of Airtran Captains that will elect to take voluntary downgrades to stay in ATL and avoid being weekend reserve for the next 10 years.

 

[jonjuan]

I am getting a ton of feedback from SWA guys all over the seniority list. I am flying with a 3 year ex A-10 guy who is not yelling "NO" from the top step.

He's been pissed since the day he didn't get fighters.

 

[dicko]

From what I can tell.....the Airtran guys are getting gains in black and white as soon as the deal is done.

No, we get nothing when the deal is done. As far as we know. We get nothing until we go through training or 01/04/2012. The training is going to take a long time. Until we go through training its only the pay bump. As you know, your contract is great due to rigs and scheduling. Until SWA can train us we get only the pay and health. The 717 pilots go through last. That's 30 months.

Take my seniority spot ( 6 yr SWA FO). A guy on the Airtran side in that spot gets a pay raise, cheaper healthcare, better 401k, profit sharing, etc. What do I get? Nothing.

You've already got what can be given by AirTran pilots. Even if you stapled all of us it wouldn't have much more effect. There just isn't enough of us.

Now hold on. I know the Airtran FO's are stapled. I know we get the upgrades til 2020. But that's all speculation. And with most guys in the 717 which we can't bid, what the hell does that seniority bump do for me? They also extended the merging period to 30 months so it will take that long to even reflect a small bump. And forget getting a vote from an FO here with more than 6 years who will watch Airtran captains make $70k more than them just because they happen to be a Captain already. Sounds like a no from what I've heard.

So....easy fix. Pay protect any SWA FO who is junior to an Airtran guy holding Captain. I think there is some compensation for the horror of flying with an AirTran CA junior to you There are only about 180-200 that are junior to your junior CA (a guess) That's only 2.6 % of the entire list.

Good luck either way. I like the Airtran guys. I wish no ill will on anyone. I just want a fair deal. Go ahead and rip me now. Cause that is what happens here.

No ripping. It's your view and that's your world. That's the way we live. Your post is very fair.





edited because i spelled "your" incorrectly ... Again.

 

[Lear70]

My prediction for the vote:

SWA 55/45 pass

AAI 85/15 pass

Any takers? The rest simply isn't worth debating. It is what it is, and telling each other what a crappy deal it is for one side and great for the other isn't going to convince a single, solitary person on either side, it'll just make people P.O.'d.

Best thing we can do is hope that GK's talk of 10 years' worth of growth in 3 years is what really comes to pass... Best of luck to all!

 

[CRJsensa]

Bite me. I was hired by a real airline, not Valu-Jet.

 

[Kharma Police]

Airtran will retire 150 pilots through 2020. I also imagine there will be a number of Airtran Captains that will elect to take voluntary downgrades to stay in ATL and avoid being weekend reserve for the next 10 years.

I'm not looking forward to commuting but I think most junior captains like me will stay in the left seat. Besides, I'm guessing a reserve pilot at Southwest probably has a better QOL than most AT line holders.

 

[Big Time]

DEBO said it. The Airtran guys see IMMEDIATE rewards. The SWA FO sees nothing unless we GROW. That requires 15% ROIC....not happening. Look at the history. Look at our industry. SWA FO gets a 12% seniority bump that is ABSOLUTELY USELESS!!! The AIRTRAN FO makes more money as a SWA FO than he would ever have made as an AIRTRAN CAPTAIN!!! SWA FO's get the Captain seats till 2020. Once again....we must see massive growth to realize that benny. Not happening according to our CFO Accountant type CEO. if we were growing, even I would say thats not fair for Airtran guys. But the fact remains...ALL Airtran guys EXCEED CAREER FINANCIAL EXPECTATIONS with this deal. All Airtran cappys keep their seat. With current growth forecasts, SWA FO's get NUUUUUTHING!!!! Airtran FO's get 70K+ raise DAY 1!!!!! The deal is a joke. I mean no harm to any Airtran Pilot, honestly. But, this deal is a thousand miles from FAIR and EQUITABLE.

 

[Beech Balls]

So I get 2622 swapa pilots that will upgrade before me and a measly 12% nudge in seniority? I'm low enough on the SWA list that some AirTran guys will upgrade before me. No thanks.

 

[ILUVURBANMYERS]

Citris9-Sorry a 5% bump is a good thing. Sorry if I sounded flippant!

 

[On Your Six]

And not one WN bro can utilize that "bump" until 2020!

This ought to pass Airtran with 99%! I'd say 100% but I know Kwick aint gonna be happy.

Gup

OMG this is a horrible proposition. AT FOs can't upgrade before any SWA FOs? Say what? If I had a vote, and I'm glad I do not, I would vote this turd down and consider arbitration. GK wants this done, and binding arbitration sounds like a good way to get a fair deal. And recall those AT negotiators.


OYS

 

[ATLplt]

The deal is a joke. I mean no harm to any Airtran Pilot, honestly. But, this deal is a thousand miles from FAIR and EQUITABLE.

Bless your heart Big Time,

You're right. Stapling guys with 6 years at AT behind 08 hires at SWA is a complete injustice to your pilot group. Oh, and those young, 8-9yr 717 Capt's that hold the seat against your 01 hires, but will forever be on reserve...and are slotted in with your 05-07 hires? That's ridiculous! Vote NO with pride! Grow a pair, and show your management who's boss. imp:

 

[On Your Six]

Bless your heart Big Time,

You're right. Stapling guys with 6 years at AT behind 08 hires at SWA is a complete injustice to your pilot group. Oh, and those young, 8-9yr 717 Capt's that hold the seat against your 01 hires, but will forever be on reserve...and are slotted in with your 05-07 hires? That's ridiculous! Vote NO with pride! Grow a pair, and show your management who's boss. imp:

You are actually correct. An arbitrated award would be binding, and we know GK wants this deal, because he has already coordinated flight schedules. Any possible arbitrated award could be better for both captains and FOs. You AT pilots may want to consider a different path, like arbitration.


OYS

 

[Big Time]

Bless your heart Big Time,

You're right. Stapling guys with 6 years at AT behind 08 hires at SWA is a complete injustice to your pilot group. Oh, and those young, 8-9yr 717 Capt's that hold the seat against your 01 hires, but will forever be on reserve...and are slotted in with your 05-07 hires? That's ridiculous! Vote NO with pride! Grow a pair, and show your management who's boss. imp:

I wasnt trying to be a smart ass ATLplt. I was being sincere. Quote the rest of my post. IF YOUR AN AIRTRAN PILOT, YOU EXCEED YOUR CAREER FINANCIAL EXPECTATIONS...even as a SWA First Officer. I could give a sh#t less about the ego trip from sitting in the left seat....which I dont.

 

[johnsonrod]

This plan does not sound good to me. It sounds like a "divide and conquer" plan. Get all of the AirTran Captains happy and who cares about the FOs - especially the senior FOs who should upgrade before the most junior SWA pilots. As long as the Captains vote yes, things will work out...

Sounds like another Frontier "take this and be super thankful" offer. If I were voting, I would vote NO and wait for arbitration.