Skywest SAPA proposed pay package is out

[Flyerdan]

YES, that is exactly what it is! Those of us at Skywest that would love to see XJT force the three airlines to merge and be an integrated ALPA pilot group are left with nothing more than the hope that once again an ALPA pilot group will do the heavy lifting for us. It is sad but very true!

On a side note: I am extremely disappointed that it appears that the XJT ALPA folks are going to cave on the integration scope in favor of whipsaw protections.

I wonder how the majority of the XJT pilot group feel about that issue.

I was hoping to get a reaction from some XJT pilots (not flame baiting just wondering how most of you feel about this) about giving up on the seniority integration during merger language.

First, does it seem to be a true that this scope is being given up?

Second, do you agree with it?

 

[rjacobs]

I was hoping to get a reaction from some XJT pilots (not flame baiting just wondering how most of you feel about this) about giving up on the seniority integration during merger language.

First, does it seem to be a true that this scope is being given up?

Second, do you agree with it?

This is all how I understand it as it was explained to me.

The reason we "gave up", which we really didnt because our scope language is remaining intact, is two fold.

First is that none of the lawyers that we consulted with thought that if we took it to court we would win. The reason being is that they could not see a judge forcing our contract(not our whole contract but our one section) on multiple work groups across multiple lines. They did not think the judge would force an integration of all the various work groups-pilots, FA's, MX, DX, etc... That is the main reason.

The second, and this one is a bit more fuzzy for me, is that apparently we were reading the successorship section wrong and that it really did not have to do with if we were bought, but if we created another airline, ala gojet, and the company tried to do what TSA did and "create" another holding company to hold "ExpressJet Holdings" and "XYZ Holdings" thus keeping the pilot groups separate.

The third reason, and this is my own thought process, is that our management and BOD has proven that they have zero interest in running an airline any longer. If we forced the issue and SKW pulled out of the deal it would be 6-12 months before we declared BK, SKW came in as our DIP, asked the BK judge to remove the successorship section, bought us for half price(or less), we would have almost no leverage to get a decent contract or even be merged with ASA for that matter. Now if things were to go down like this, who knows, but its just my opinion of how things could progress had we stood firm and burned the place down.

 

[Flyerdan]

This is all how I understand it as it was explained to me.

The reason we "gave up", which we really didnt because our scope language is remaining intact, is two fold.

First is that none of the lawyers that we consulted with thought that if we took it to court we would win. The reason being is that they could not see a judge forcing our contract(not our whole contract but our one section) on multiple work groups across multiple lines. They did not think the judge would force an integration of all the various work groups-pilots, FA's, MX, DX, etc... That is the main reason.

The second, and this one is a bit more fuzzy for me, is that apparently we were reading the successorship section wrong and that it really did not have to do with if we were bought, but if we created another airline, ala gojet, and the company tried to do what TSA did and "create" another holding company to hold "ExpressJet Holdings" and "XYZ Holdings" thus keeping the pilot groups separate.

The third reason, and this is my own thought process, is that our management and BOD has proven that they have zero interest in running an airline any longer. If we forced the issue and SKW pulled out of the deal it would be 6-12 months before we declared BK, SKW came in as our DIP, asked the BK judge to remove the successorship section, bought us for half price(or less), we would have almost no leverage to get a decent contract or even be merged with ASA for that matter. Now if things were to go down like this, who knows, but its just my opinion of how things could progress had we stood firm and burned the place down.

WOW - that was an awesome response! Thanks for the insight and explanation. It certainly makes sense and seems like a real win for both the XJT and ASA groups. I hope the integration goes as smoothly as it can and wish you all the best of luck.

I sure hope ALPA will make another run at getting us to vote them in over here at the SKywest airline side of the house. I really hate the thought that you all will be doing the heavy lifting for us.

 

[the palm]

I really hate the thought that you all will be doing the heavy lifting for us.

So do we.

 

[V1 Rotate]

Not to get into an ALPA pissing match, but have you ever used ALPA services? The first time you actually use their services be it a lawyer fighting a grievance/arbitration specifically for YOU or have a doc in Denver go to bat for YOU for hours and hours with the FAA or when you ball an airplane up and within hours you have 100+ ALPA volunteers(accident investigators, CIRP, lawyers, etc...) at the crash scene(anywhere in the world). Should I go on? What would those things noted above cost you out of your pocket? Most lawyers charge a couple thousand retainer plus hourly, doc's the same. I paid about 1500 in ALPA dues last year and I know I got my money's worth.

ALPA is not perfect I will agree with you there, but the services they provide, when they are needed, are excellent and I guess you cant really appreciate them until you need them.

Since ALPA is so good at all these things, and I have no reason to doubt that they are or that these services aren't beneficial to the member, maybe ALPA should just stick to this and quit trying to represent every major and regional carrier out there fairly, which it can't do. Just a thought coming from a former ALPA member myself.....

 

[xjhawk]

Not to get into an ALPA pissing match, but have you ever used ALPA services? The first time you actually use their services be it a lawyer fighting a grievance/arbitration specifically for YOU or have a doc in Denver go to bat for YOU for hours and hours with the FAA or when you ball an airplane up and within hours you have 100+ ALPA volunteers(accident investigators, CIRP, lawyers, etc...) at the crash scene(anywhere in the world). Should I go on? What would those things noted above cost you out of your pocket? Most lawyers charge a couple thousand retainer plus hourly, doc's the same. I paid about 1500 in ALPA dues last year and I know I got my money's worth.

ALPA is not perfect I will agree with you there, but the services they provide, when they are needed, are excellent and I guess you cant really appreciate them until you need them.

agree

 

[BID]

I highly doubt you will get a better offer. SAPA negotiates the first deal the best they can. Actually, they negotiate nothing. They communicate with management what they are hoping for and wishing for. Management then decides. Management might go a bit lower so they can raise the second offer, but I would expect a minimal increase at best.

When I was at SkyWest I always thought it was funny we got to vote. I would still vote NO, its the only voice you have.

 

[rjacobs]

WOW - that was an awesome response! Thanks for the insight and explanation. It certainly makes sense and seems like a real win for both the XJT and ASA groups. I hope the integration goes as smoothly as it can and wish you all the best of luck.

I sure hope ALPA will make another run at getting us to vote them in over here at the SKywest airline side of the house. I really hate the thought that you all will be doing the heavy lifting for us.

There are some of us here that see the forest for the trees and are not screaming to burn the trees down. And I am an FO and not a senior captain which some people are accusing(the senior CA's in our MEC leadership) of doing this simply to keep their cush jobs.

Since ALPA is so good at all these things, and I have no reason to doubt that they are or that these services aren't beneficial to the member, maybe ALPA should just stick to this and quit trying to represent every major and regional carrier out there fairly, which it can't do. Just a thought coming from a former ALPA member myself.....

I dont believe you understand how ALPA even works. Every ALPA MEC is its own entity, thats why we are an association and not a union. ALPA national is simply there as part of the organizational structure and to run things like the safety side of the house as well as to employ the lawyers and what not. When a pilot group has a decision to make on things like a new contract, pay concessions, etc... ALPA national has zero say and will provide zero advice one way or the other. Every airline makes their own decisions. Every airline receives the same training from ALPA(safety, negotiating, leadership, etc...). They dont teach a "regional" and a "major" version. So its up to the individual pilot groups to take that training and do stuff with it.