Skywest, Sapa and pressuring pilots to fly

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Sorry, but my "near-[career] death" moment at Mesa demonstrated otherwise. I didn't get an ALPA rep for the chief pilot carpet dance, I didn't get a return call from the numerous voice mails to the ALPA attorney. I was told by my local LEC rep that the ALPA attorney was "too busy dealing with REAL problems" and that I should "try again if I get an actual violation."

You experience may vary, of course. When a certain MEC officer purportedly stalled an aircraft in calm air at altitude, I wonder if he got the same treatment from ALPA? Or did he get their full attention and TLC?

ALPA's crowning "glory" is that everyone gets treated equally, no matter how idiotic or incompetent. Or so they say. Frankly, I think it's as political as any other organization, and a hell of a lot less effective than most paid-for "talent".

Why did Mesa CP want you to do a carpet dance? Did you violate SOP? FAR?

Also, could it be the volunteer structure at Mesa is weak?

 

[Soverytired]

Why did Mesa CP want you to do a carpet dance? Did you violate SOP? FAR?

Also, could it be the volunteer structure at Mesa is weak?

Numerous pilots were "interpreting" a clause in the manual to get around an airport-specific difficulty. I resisted doing said "clause", and sought clarification from the CP, which I didn't get. After a few weeks, I succumbed to doing what everyone else was doing, and lo and behold, a fed in the terminal went BALLISTIC.

The "weak volunteer" thing only goes so far, by the way. If everything is depending on the local volunteers, why are we paying into a national organization? Isn't the whole point of a national organization to provide expertise, know-how and backing?

If it all comes down to "the volunteers", better to go with a 100% in-house union. There's no doubting motives, or who's responsible for success or failure.

 

[difete]

I already have done my part in refusing early shows after the schedule was being changed due to weather. Always drop the "It is Unsafe"

They will back away after that. No one wants that liability.

I hope I pass my next PC ride. I'll put in my vote to ALPA as soon as I get that ballot in the mail.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Am I missing something? Nothing wrong with flying over 14 hours. Perfectly legal, and is expected, but you can not be SCHEDULED more than 14 hours. You can fly up to 16 hours if you are delayed.

BUT, if you are fatigued, then you are fatigued. Just be prepared to explain why you did it if you make a habit of it!

What is this thread about? Are Skywest pilots contractually limited to less than a 14 hour duty day? Or am I missing something?

 

[PCL_128]

BUT, if you are fatigued, then you are fatigued. Just be prepared to explain why you did it if you make a habit of it!

Explain? There should be no explanation. The word "fatigued" is all that they need to know. Any further explanation is extraneous and intrusive. I called out fatigued many times during my time at Pinnacle, and I always refused to provide them with any explanation. "I was fatigued." That says it all, and that's all that they're going to get.

 

[difete]

Explain? There should be no explanation. The word "fatigued" is all that they need to know. Any further explanation is extraneous and intrusive. I called out fatigued many times during my time at Pinnacle, and I always refused to provide them with any explanation. "I was fatigued." That says it all, and that's all that they're going to get.

I am with you, I told them once I was too tired, and it will be "unsafe", and they let it go. Union or no union, fatigue is the same, no one wants that liability out there, nor you, nor the company.

If you said im fatigued, or unsafe, and they still pressure you and you said ok, you just opened yourself to share that liablility.

Those calls from crew scheduling are recorded, and even if Joe Blow ran a tug into your plane at the ramp (nothing to do with your fatigue offcourse) you will be held accountable for saying ok earlier.

They will ask you why you said ok after admiting you were fatigued?

Then they could tie in that you could have prevented the tug from hitting the plane, if you were not so "fatigued"?

Always CYA.

 

[Mookie]

Holy crap, Difete, you are actually starting to sound like a real captain! good to see....

Mookie

 

[John Pennekamp]

Sorry, but that's just not the case. Rez's earlier post about ALPA's attorneys is spot-on. These guys are die-hard trade unionists that work their butts off for ALPA members. All of them have extensive experience that they could use to net a massive pay increase at a prestigious firm, but they choose to keep fighting the good fight. You simply can't find an attorney that knows the RLA and general labor law as it applies to pilots as well as these guys do. In all matters related to my profession, I'd rather have an ALPA attorney defending me rather than even the very best private practice labor attorney.

That's also my experience. The worst I can say is that some are very green and need a little help from a more experienced attorney their first few years, or on a big case. Otherwise all of the ALPA CAs I've met have been great lawyers and hard core advocates.

 

[regionalcap]

She then said they would not look at it negatively and that this was a fatigue situation and we were all released from duty. I said thankyou and hung up. Two minutes later while explaining the situation to my crew the phone rang. I answered, and it was Katy again. She said she had discussed the matter with someone else and that we now would need to fly the trip.

No one has brought up this point. The scheduler released the pilot from duty and then later reassigned the pilot back to the trip.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Numerous pilots were "interpreting" a clause in the manual to get around an airport-specific difficulty. I resisted doing said "clause", and sought clarification from the CP, which I didn't get. After a few weeks, I succumbed to doing what everyone else was doing, and lo and behold, a fed in the terminal went BALLISTIC.

The "weak volunteer" thing only goes so far, by the way. If everything is depending on the local volunteers, why are we paying into a national organization? Isn't the whole point of a national organization to provide expertise, know-how and backing?

If it all comes down to "the volunteers", better to go with a 100% in-house union. There's no doubting motives, or who's responsible for success or failure.

If you want on site staff experts then how much in dues are you willing to pay? 5%? 10%