SkyWest/Republic & Scope

[CFIT]

Gen Lee

I don't post here much. I don't agree with most of what you say, and probably won't argue this with you too much. You mentioned that DAL, UAL/CAL etc are about to enter negotiations and they won't give up scope. Negotiations are just that, pilots want this, company won't give up that. Company wants this, pilots won't give up that. You sound rather confident that the pilots are going to get all they want. Negotiations don't work that way. Historically, DAL managment has negotiated the scope they want, not the DAL pilots. Aside from "I know me and my DAL buddies won't give up scope", what makes you so confident that DCI won't be flying larger planes in the future?

All of this is true, would the senior be willing to give up $5, $10 an hour to placate scope? Nope, never has happened.

Resurrect the pensions, and scope will fold like a lawn chair...............

Dont worry, ALPO will protect the regional............


.

 

[Dornier 335]

Smisek sat stonily through Dorgan’s remarks Thursday, never reverting to the sort of comments he made a day earlier, when he said he never knew that Colgan had failed to give its pilots hands-on training in a key component of the plane’s stall-recovery system.

“We weren’t aware of that training deficiency,” Smisek said. “That’s the responsibility of the FAA” — the Federal Aviation Administration.

So ... has anyone from the dear FAA taken responsibility? What happened to the Colgan POI?

 

[the palm]

Gen Lee

I don't post here much. I don't agree with most of what you say, and probably won't argue this with you too much. You mentioned that DAL, UAL/CAL etc are about to enter negotiations and they won't give up scope. Negotiations are just that, pilots want this, company won't give up that. Company wants this, pilots won't give up that. You sound rather confident that the pilots are going to get all they want. Negotiations don't work that way. Historically, DAL managment has negotiated the scope they want, not the DAL pilots. Aside from "I know me and my DAL buddies won't give up scope", what makes you so confident that DCI won't be flying larger planes in the future?

My point exactly. The Genital just doesn't want to admit it. He wants to take this stand that he won't vote to relax scope. Well just wait into those offers start coming in from the company. 15% pay raise, retirement bennies, more planes, etc. He will trip over himself all the way to the ALPA office trying to garner support and then he will run back to flightinfo and swear he voted "no."

 

[Crash Pad]

Don't worry the Tranny is coughing up scope in the next contract.

 

[Medeco]

Honestly, you can't treat a group of pilots like that, even if you really do have big egos and think your poop doesn't stink, like you actually do. Really now, get some manners. Are you okay now? Cooled off yet? Good.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Funny!!! Coming from you...

 

[outtahere]

hey, easy now, no need to get testy. If you were talking about deliveries, then you know that gary kelly said no new net gain of planes through 2012, so that probably won't happen. I was talking about your ridiculous attempt at trying to staple the f9 guys. Honestly, you can't treat a group of pilots like that, even if you really do have big egos and think your poop doesn't stink, like you actually do. Really now, get some manners. Are you okay now? Cooled off yet? Good.


Bye bye---general lee

pot, meet kettle!!!!

 

[damnflyboy]

I know there are legacy guys out there that hold some ungodly hatred toward regional pilots and their desire for staying with the regionals. But here is where I'm coming from:

I can't get on with a legacy until I have 121 PIC time (or hot female regional FO with zero 121 PIC time, in DL's recent hiring case...and might I add "Good for her, I'd do the same thing if I could"). I can't get 121 PIC time until I upgrade to captain. I can't upgrade to captain until there is:
a) Regional Growth (not holding breath) or b) Legacies hire and captains leave our regional.

And there-in lies the problem---generally speaking, Captain's aren't leaving. They don't want to leave. Why (reasons I hear)?
a) When scope was relaxed, that decreased the potential spots at legacies and increased their time at the regionals. They don't want to be hazed by the seniority system again. Especially now that they have kids (When the wife wants babies, the wife wants babies. They don't care about hiring cycles and scope).
b) Because they can't afford the pay cut...and/or not worth it with little time remaining to "make it back"


Do I blame them? No. Just as I don't blame our regional female F.O.'s for "cutting the line" as one of my bitter colleagues put it. But there are solutions...that is if you're really interested in depriving the regionals of pilots and "taking back" the industry. I've heard 2 that make sense.

1) Increase Legacy carrier 1st year FO pay above regional Captain pay (which will mean an across-the-board pay sacrifice on all levels of longevity).
or
2) Make it common practice of hiring regional pilots without 121 PIC time.

Bottom line, you have to open a window somewhere.

 

[Leroy Smith]

Bottom line, you have to open a window somewhere.

Unfortunately, they don't. They have more than enough applicants. Your and my career progression is not something that anyone on Virginia Ave is even conscious of. You or I might make a great Delta newhire and be a great asset to the company, but without the criteria to make it through the resume screen, we are SOL. The choices are: get some PIC, get some good internal rec's, grow a vajay-jay, or some combination of the above.

 

[GuppyWN]

For all of the people trying to actually contribute to this thread I'll simply ask -

Would you rather fly for your current regional

or

Fly for Delta, United, Southwest etc that own the airframes. That's what General doesn't get.

Gup

 

[sleeves]

I can guarantee that I will not vote to give up my CAL scope. Unless Smisik has my wife and kids at gun point, or he can bring my Dad back from the dead, nothing he can give me will incline me vote for a scope reduction. I have not flown with many who feel differently either.

 

[damnflyboy]

For all of the people trying to actually contribute to this thread I'll simply ask -

Would you rather fly for your current regional

or

Fly for Delta, United, Southwest etc that own the airframes. That's what General doesn't get.

Gup

I'd rather fly for option #2. But I can't with this current situation. If mainline guys want to stick to their guns with scope, then fine. But money is the ammo of this industry. You have to sacrifice something if you want to get your way. Cinching the rope-latter higher and higher to your tree-house club for the regional guys isn't the silver bullet.

My advice, for what it's worth-- take advantage of this pending pilot shortage. Get the line moving again.
1) Don't sell out on scope again (this may mean a pay/QOL stagnation or cut to stay competitive with discounters). This will allow you to grow.
2) Gobble up all of the "cheap labor" positions at the regionals. Hire like crazy, ideally from the bottom up. Because of the shortage, regionals will be forced to pay more for their labor because of ballooning initial training costs. This will also make regionals ultra-senior (and expensive).
3) Offer the new-hires a better salary. Again, this will take some wealth redistribution on pay-scale to put it bluntly.

The US is fat on pilots, but not for much longer. Until then, you have to pay the capitalism game right back at management. You can't just demand ransom without collateral. So you have to outfox them with sacrifice and unity. Of course, that is the gotcha. Sacrifice? Unity? What's that?!

Remember: "Look, without a hostage, there is no ransom. That's what ransom is. Those are the f-ing rules!" -Walter Sobchak

 

[the palm]

For all of the people trying to actually contribute to this thread I'll simply ask -

Would you rather fly for your current regional

or

Fly for Delta, United, Southwest etc that own the airframes. That's what General doesn't get.

Gup

ASA or Delta? ASA
ASA or United? ASA
ASA or Southwest? Southwest
ASA or FedEx? FedEx
ASA or UPS? UPS
ASA or American? ASA
ASA or CAL? ASA

My reasons for each differ a bit, but the general theme is starting over and becoming furlough fodder. I know the risks and with risks come rewards, but if it ain't broke....

 

[Dornier 335]

damnflyboy your avatar cracks me up! Where did you get it from?

On a serious note, ask all those mainline guys what the requirements were when they got hired. I bet you previous 121 PIC time wasn't required (and I am not referring to some hottie with double Ds). So, it's easy to point the finger at the regional guys and blame them for low-pay, scope etc. The majority just wants to pay their dues and move up (if there still is such a thing as an attractive airline job). If e.g the General or Scope hate RJs and the pilots flying them, how do they suggest getting the requirements in order to apply at Delta? Has mainline now become an exclusive club? What do you need to do then to get a job? Surrender one of your testicles?

Is there going to be a pilot shortage? Nah, maybe on the regional level, but not mainline.

 

[johnpeace]

Is there going to be a pilot shortage? Nah, maybe on the regional level, but not mainline.

Not yet...but all we're doing is kicking the can a few years down the road.

All of the 30-40 something yr. old regional captains they hire at DAL will hit the retirement age in 20-30 years. What happens when THEY leave?

 

[sayrejm]

The world will end in 2012. Why is everyone looking so far down the road ;-) <--- winky face = sarcasm

 

[Yuppyguppy]

ASA or Delta? ASA
ASA or United? ASA
ASA or Southwest? Southwest
ASA or FedEx? FedEx
ASA or UPS? UPS
ASA or American? ASA
ASA or CAL? ASA

My reasons for each differ a bit, but the general theme is starting over and becoming furlough fodder. I know the risks and with risks come rewards, but if it ain't broke....

DUMBEST POST OF THE DAY AWARD! By the way...you know nothing

 

[ASA_Aviator]

DUMBEST POST OF THE DAY AWARD! By the way...you know nothing

You can't judge someone else's decisions on where to work/not work. At least he is actually thinking about the pros/cons of all of the places instead of just making blind decisions. Believe it or not, there sometimes are great reasons to stay where you are if you're at a regional.

If you're a captain making low $90s, or a line check airman making a little over $110,000, you may not want to take that 50-60% pay cut for several years, flying reserve and bopping around on the bottom of a 12,000 pilot list.

 

[damnflyboy]

damnflyboy your avatar cracks me up! Where did you get it from?

It came to me in a dream. And by dream I mean reality.

I'm building a giant foam-mascot costume of the dreaded red arrow so I can rampage the private lives of those responsible. It will be purely therapeutic...stealing birthday cakes, disrupting children's softball games with a herd of ostriches, and popping out of the bedroom shadows screaming on anniversary nights.

 

[GuppyWN]

I can't see your trips but unless you're on reserve I don't want to hear it

Gup

 

[Medeco]

It came to me in a dream. And by dream I mean reality.

I'm building a giant foam-mascot costume of the dreaded red arrow so I can rampage the private lives of those responsible. It will be purely therapeutic...stealing birthday cakes, disrupting children's softball games with a herd of ostriches, and popping out of the bedroom shadows screaming on anniversary nights.

That's good. Maybe wear it to RGT class when SH shows or the crew room on a town hall day.