SkyWest Had Made Hostile $3.50/Share Bid For ExpressJet

[Goose Egg]

Just because you benefited from it doesn't mean you weren't being whipsawed. Your payrates are an almost identical copy of ASA's... had ASA been able to get theirs higher yours would be higher too...

Hmmm... isn't the term "whipsawed" by definition describing not benefiting? Wouldn't a whipsaw scenario be like ASA getting higher pay rates and then managment saying that in order to get the same pay rates, we'd have to give up something else? That didn't happen. We never gave up anything. It may be true that our pay rates may be better if ASAs were, but I wouldn't consider that a whipsaw. The pay is the same, and I think that show's just the opposite of whipsawing--fairness among separate pilot groups--a condition that really doesn't have to exist.

I mean, I guess you could consider the ebb and flow of DCI airplanes as "whipsawing." I tend to look at it as "running a profitable operation" or "making decisions based on strategic factors that I am not aware of being a line pilot," or "keeping Mother Delta happy." Sorry if I don't have a self-annihilating distrust for management.

-Goose

 

[sweptback]

In order for one side of the see-saw to go down, the other side has to go up.

 

[rtmcfi]

In order for one side of the see-saw to go down, the other side has to go up.

However, you can keep lowering the pivot point.

 

[Goose Egg]

In order for one side of the see-saw to go down, the other side has to go up.

Dude, no. That's the definition of zero sum. It's not a see-saw, or a whipsaw, or any other manner of saw. You're saying if we're up, then ASA must have to go down. But ASA isn't going down, it's going up. And we're not going down either. It simply isn't working in the see-saw fashion. I'm not saying our management is perfect, and I'm definitely not saying that I agree with every decision. However, I am saying that we have it a lot better off than a lot of people do, and ASA doesn't need to go "down" to make it so.

Well, I'm out for the night. Take care...

-Goose

 

[WalterSobchak]

What is the compromise here? We give up scope we get to keep our jobs? If there is to be a compromise then both parties need to participate, meaning JA will have to give something to XJT ALPA. Since he has not approached ALPA we do not know what he will do for us yet.

I don't really know or claim to know what the compromise is here...what I do know is you guys are already vocal in your willingness to throw everyone else in the company under the bus and into the unemployment line just to be able to say you stood up to "the man".

I understand you have an "obligation to 'the profession'" but, sometimes it takes the bigger man to pick your battles and do what is right for everyone...for your F/A's, your dispatchers, your ground personnel...and not just you. Of course, that would require your pilot ego to allow your pilot brain to think about someone other than yourself and I know that is asking a whole helluva lot from some of you.

Now, back to happy-fun joketime, because that's what dispatchers do best...I got your "whipsaw" right here, suckers!

 

[L.A.pilot]

what I do know is you guys are already vocal in your willingness to throw everyone else in the company under the bus and into the unemployment line just to be able to say you stood up to "the man".

This is incorrect. I have observed many people post that they would be willing to negotiate with management. Currently the ExpressJet pilots have a contract that protects their interests. SkyWest pilots have nothing of the like. Some have given the impression that all SkyWest pilots are blood-thirsty hyenas waiting to feast on the misfortunes of others. It really is making you look bad.

ASA and SkyWest are alter-ego airlines. They are two airlines under ownership of one company, run seperately with divided employee groups. A whipsaw occurs when one pilot group is threatened with loss of work to the other group during contract negotiations. SkyWest pilots have already been used as a tool by management to leverage itself during negotiations with the ASA pilots. No ASA pilots were put on the street last time, but they did lose growth aircraft. Next time may not be so pretty.

This is not new at the regional level: American Eagle used to be five different airlines that all came under ownership of AMR corp in the late 1990's. Management loved the whipsaw until the pilots were able to get an integrated seniority list and one contract. MESA started an alter ego airline from scratch during negotiations with their pilots, which strategically reduced the bargaining power of their pilots. The pilots ended up accepting what many consider a sub-standard contract in order to get strict scope and merger language in their contract.

Unfortunately, MESA management has run their airline into the ground. You would blame their pilots because they "stuck it to the man" and insisted that all of their flying would be done by pilots on their seniority list. The current state of their company is obviously not the pilots' fault.

The ExpressJet pilots have a contract that they worked hard for that protects their interests. If Mr. Atkin does not care about interests of the employees at ExpressJet, they should not bend over backwards (or bend over in any other manner) to accomodate him.

Common ownership=One list, one contract. Do not accept anything less than this.

 

[Nevets]

Just a few things. There are many ifs for this buyout to happen. If SKW decides to increase its offer, and if the XJT BOD accepts the offer, and if SKW completes "due diligence," and if CAL completes "due diligence," and if the SKW BOD approves, and if the XJT MEC successfully negotiate provisions that SKW wants revoked, and if the XJT pilots ratify the LOA, then there will be a buyout.

"Due diligence" means that if the XJT BOD agrees, presumably they would hand over the books and records to SKW for them to see if in fact they can cut a deal with CAL for a new CPA.

Also, SKW will not get our holding letter for free. They are required to negotiate. I think there is a compromise that the pilots are willing to entertain in this regard. I think this buyout could be beneficial to the XJT pilots. I think our pilots support our management team for not caving in to CAL when they released the 69 airplanes or when the arbitrator ruled that the CPA rates must be lowered. Neither time did they approach any of the labor groups for concessions. They could have easily done so or they could have just given up the 69 airplanes and furloughed thousands of employees. With that said, I don't think anyone wants to drive off the cliff with them either for all their good intentions. If the deal is right, this could be good for everyone.

One last thing. This does not mean that a deal between CAL and XJT cannot still be made. CAL left the door open on that in their letter. This was a concerted effort by both CAL and SKW. Hence the one two punch of letters sent on the same day. CAL is just using SKW to whipsaw XJT right now. Its a win win for CAL since they either get a "magnitude of savings" from SKW or from XJT.

 

[JoeMerchant]

How many airplanes with EV/AS registrations are flying around in SkyWest colors? How many more have been re-registered but still say ASA on the certificate of registration? I'm not even going to talk about the 900s, but I still have the memo from CT saying they would be ASA's.

I thought the "party line" from the ALPA cheerleaders was that management makes those decisions....Pilots don't....Are you now saying that pilots do have a say in where those aircraft go?

 

[XPOO]

Joe,

Again, why would Jerry reward the worst performing regional airline more growth? They can thump their chest and quote the ALPA bible whipsaw scripture as much as they want. It is sound business to stop the growth at ASA and get them back in a position to be successful first.

 

[sweptback]

I thought the "party line" from the ALPA cheerleaders was that management makes those decisions....Pilots don't....Are you now saying that pilots do have a say in where those aircraft go?

I have no idea who made the decision to move airplanes, but I'm pretty sure the ASA MEC didn't vote to have management transfer our aircraft.

 

[sweptback]

Joe,

Again, why would Jerry reward the worst performing regional airline more growth? They can thump their chest and quote the ALPA bible whipsaw scripture as much as they want. It is sound business to stop the growth at ASA and get them back in a position to be successful first.

XPOO,

So it was a sound business decision to move the 4 ASA 700s to SkyWest, costing almost $300,000 per airplane in the process? It was such a big expense that SkyWest, Inc. had to explain it in their quarterly results.

Since we all get paid on profit sharing, I'd expect more of an outcry from you. After all, that decision did reduce your payout for that quarter.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I have no idea who made the decision to move airplanes, but I'm pretty sure the ASA MEC didn't vote to have management transfer our aircraft.

....so was it whipsaw or not sweptback....Either it used by management or it isn't....You can't have it both ways....

Can actions by MECs affect the decisions of managment?

 

[XPOO]

XPOO,

So it was a sound business decision to move the 4 ASA 700s to SkyWest, costing almost $300,000 per airplane in the process? It was such a big expense that SkyWest, Inc. had to explain it in their quarterly results.

Since we all get paid on profit sharing, I'd expect more of an outcry from you. After all, that decision did reduce your payout for that quarter.

Whatever you have to tell yourself. They still had a profit margin that quarter that exceeded the previous year's. By the way, aren't all of those 70's flying exclusively out of SLC? So, by having SkyWest run those aircraft instead of ASA, that is not considered a sound business decision? Well, hell, I need to put in a vote for you on the BOD next time it comes around.

 

[WalterSobchak]

ASA and SkyWest are alter-ego airlines.

Now, last I checked, an alter-ego carrier is one that is created to circumvent the rules of a CBA...i.e; GoJet.

You can claim whipsaw all you want, but ASA and SkyWest are not "alter-ego carriers".

 

[flyboyzz1]

this thread is too large to handle