SkyWest Had Made Hostile $3.50/Share Bid For ExpressJet

[WalterSobchak]

$3.50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYhCPVtrLwo

I'm so glad I'm not the only one that was thinking that...Tree-fiddy!

 

[BigShotXJTdrvr]

Good luck with your pipedream!

It's not a pipedream. Our contract says seniority lists will be integrated within 9 months after completion of transaction, and if not made by mutual agreement then it will be decided by arbitration.

It is in no way an accident our CBA is written this way. It was one of the most contentious parts of our contract negotiations.

Why is it so many regional pilots accept it as a fact of life that they need to volunteer to be whipsawed just to have a job? Atkin is like a like a little major airline unto himself. He wants to acquire a "portfolio of carriers" as a vendor in the same way the majors want a portfolio of carriers as customers. The majors want to whipsaw the different regionals against one another and Jerry wants to whipsaw the pilots of SKW Inc.

It's not ego you will be hearing from XJT pilots. It's not chest-thumping. I just don't need a job bad enough to disrespect myself in the manner being proposed. Buy us. Inegrate us. You will not find many opposed to that. One company, one contract, one pilot group.

 

[GearBayOverheat]

I can't wait until we buy out xjt and then I can upgrade in 11 months. Soon you guys will see how great it is to be part of the skywest family!!!!

 

[10nCLR]

It's not a pipedream. Our contract says seniority lists will be integrated within 9 months after completion of transaction, and if not made by mutual agreement then it will be decided by arbitration.

It is in no way an accident our CBA is written this way. It was one of the most contentious parts of our contract negotiations.

Why is it so many regional pilots accept it as a fact of life that they need to volunteer to be whipsawed just to have a job? Atkin is like a like a little major airline unto himself. He wants to acquire a "portfolio of carriers" as a vendor in the same way the majors want a portfolio of carriers as customers. The majors want to whipsaw the different regionals against one another and Jerry wants to whipsaw the pilots of SKW Inc.

It's not ego you will be hearing from XJT pilots. It's not chest-thumping. I just don't need a job bad enough to disrespect myself in the manner being proposed. Buy us. Inegrate us. You will not find many opposed to that. One company, one contract, one pilot group.

PIPE DREAMER-one list, sure buddy, sure thing, yeah right! No way will that ever happen. Might as well start looking for another job then.
Oh, YEAAH!!

 

[ToiletDuck]

It's not a pipedream. Our contract says seniority lists will be integrated within 9 months after completion of transaction, and if not made by mutual agreement then it will be decided by arbitration.

It is in no way an accident our CBA is written this way. It was one of the most contentious parts of our contract negotiations.

Why is it so many regional pilots accept it as a fact of life that they need to volunteer to be whipsawed just to have a job? Atkin is like a like a little major airline unto himself. He wants to acquire a "portfolio of carriers" as a vendor in the same way the majors want a portfolio of carriers as customers. The majors want to whipsaw the different regionals against one another and Jerry wants to whipsaw the pilots of SKW Inc.

It's not ego you will be hearing from XJT pilots. It's not chest-thumping. I just don't need a job bad enough to disrespect myself in the manner being proposed. Buy us. Inegrate us. You will not find many opposed to that. One company, one contract, one pilot group.

They could just sit there and wait for the company go "Mesa". I'd take what ever job someone was offering. I don't think they need you guys to whipsaw SKW with ASA there.

 

[USCtrojan]

Someone else posted their annoyance with the title of the thread. I agree, last time I checked, a hostile bid is where the acquiring company bypasses the BOD and goes right to the shareholders to sell their stake. This is NOT a hostile attempt by any means. The SkyWest BOD has knocked on the front door without bypassing anything. Unless my definition of a hostile takeover is wrong, the title of the thread is totally misleading and wrong.

Trojan

 

[XPOO]

Yeah, it's just a dig at SkyWest. Everyone with a brain can figure out it is not a hostile takeover.

 

[joe_pilot]

Someone else posted their annoyance with the title of the thread. I agree, last time I checked, a hostile bid is where the acquiring company bypasses the BOD and goes right to the shareholders to sell their stake. This is NOT a hostile attempt by any means. The SkyWest BOD has knocked on the front door without bypassing anything. Unless my definition of a hostile takeover is wrong, the title of the thread is totally misleading and wrong.

Trojan

Yup, that was me Trojan. Funny how people just don't seem to be interested in the facts, isn't it?

Oh well.

Fly Safe!

-JP

 

[L.A.pilot]

If SkyWest was not interested in using their alter-ego airlines to whipsaw divided pilot groups, why are they trying so hard to keep them seperated?

ExpressJet pilots: please do not allow a merger without seniority integration.

SkyWest pilots: please be quiet. You guys are making yourselves look bad. The kool-aid joke is old, worn, and getting really annoying. And then you come here and start regurgitating the stuff...

 

[JoeMerchant]

If SkyWest was not interested in using their alter-ego airlines to whipsaw divided pilot groups, why are they trying so hard to keep them seperated?

ExpressJet pilots: please do not allow a merger without seniority integration.

SkyWest pilots: please be quiet. You guys are making yourselves look bad. The kool-aid joke is old, worn, and getting really annoying. And then you come here and start regurgitating the stuff...

There are strategic reasons to keep all of the various carriers (certificates) separate.....The key is to try and achieve a single seniority list, while allowing the company to keep the various carriers separate.....

 

[sweptback]

There are strategic reasons to keep all of the various carriers (certificates) separate.....The key is to try and achieve a single seniority list, while allowing the company to keep the various carriers separate.....

This is one thing we can all agree on! Republic did it, and although I don't like their lack of ability to transfer between certificates, it's a good thing for their pilot group.

 

[WalterSobchak]

SkyWest pilots: please be quiet. You guys are making yourselves look bad. The kool-aid joke is old, worn, and getting really annoying. And then you come here and start regurgitating the stuff...

I will come to the defense of SkyWest pilots here and say that they are not the ones throwing the Kool-Aid jokes around.

However, now you're getting a glimpse of how so many non-SkyWest guys on here sound with the same old lame Kool-Aid jokes. We just decided to take it, run with it, and run it into the ground since so many of you have already kinda done that.

I'm not sure how that is any different than the constant regurgitation of archaic ALPA rhetoric regarding your desire to put so many out of work that have nothing to do with your contract, rather than ease up on one part of said contract that goes on around here, either. I have a low tolerance for people that would rather put other people out of work than attempt compromise...because that makes you no different than the "management" you so despise.

Ease up on the XJet ALPA Kool-Aid! (Oops, there I go again!)

 

[Goose Egg]

Thoughts:

-This is not a hostile takeover.

-I suppose Uncle Jerry could whipsaw us against ASA, but it hasn't happened and it most likely won't. And that's why ALPA keeps getting voted down.

-At XJET, being whipsawed should be the least of your worries. First of all, it isn't that likely to happen if you were purchased by SkyWest, Inc. Second of all, your airline is in some pretty deep poop, and you have nobody but your own management to blame. No scope clause will save you there.

-ASA is not an "alter ego" carrier. They are their own company, and doing quite well.

-The SkyWest pilot group did not breach "good faith" with the company with the ALPA drive. We got pay raises. Granted, 1st year FO wasn't quite what I was hoping, but down the line, things will be good.

I guess that's it for now.

-Goose

 

[sweptback]

-I suppose Uncle Jerry could whipsaw us against ASA, but it hasn't happened and it most likely won't. And that's why ALPA keeps getting voted down.

You already have been whipsawed. You either are blind to it, or haven't been there long enough.

How many airplanes with EV/AS registrations are flying around in SkyWest colors? How many more have been re-registered but still say ASA on the certificate of registration? I'm not even going to talk about the 900s, but I still have the memo from CT saying they would be ASA's.

Just because you benefited from it doesn't mean you weren't being whipsawed. Your payrates are an almost identical copy of ASA's... had ASA been able to get theirs higher yours would be higher too...

 

[Whydoitry]

I have a low tolerance for people that would rather put other people out of work than attempt compromise...because that makes you no different than the "management" you so despise.

What is the compromise here? We give up scope we get to keep our jobs? If there is to be a compromise then both parties need to participate, meaning JA will have to give something to XJT ALPA. Since he has not approached ALPA we do not know what he will do for us yet.

 

[Goose Egg]

Just because you benefited from it doesn't mean you weren't being whipsawed. Your payrates are an almost identical copy of ASA's... had ASA been able to get theirs higher yours would be higher too...

Hmmm... isn't the term "whipsawed" by definition describing not benefiting? Wouldn't a whipsaw scenario be like ASA getting higher pay rates and then managment saying that in order to get the same pay rates, we'd have to give up something else? That didn't happen. We never gave up anything. It may be true that our pay rates may be better if ASAs were, but I wouldn't consider that a whipsaw. The pay is the same, and I think that show's just the opposite of whipsawing--fairness among separate pilot groups--a condition that really doesn't have to exist.

I mean, I guess you could consider the ebb and flow of DCI airplanes as "whipsawing." I tend to look at it as "running a profitable operation" or "making decisions based on strategic factors that I am not aware of being a line pilot," or "keeping Mother Delta happy." Sorry if I don't have a self-annihilating distrust for management.

-Goose

 

[sweptback]

In order for one side of the see-saw to go down, the other side has to go up.

 

[rtmcfi]

In order for one side of the see-saw to go down, the other side has to go up.

However, you can keep lowering the pivot point.

 

[Goose Egg]

In order for one side of the see-saw to go down, the other side has to go up.

Dude, no. That's the definition of zero sum. It's not a see-saw, or a whipsaw, or any other manner of saw. You're saying if we're up, then ASA must have to go down. But ASA isn't going down, it's going up. And we're not going down either. It simply isn't working in the see-saw fashion. I'm not saying our management is perfect, and I'm definitely not saying that I agree with every decision. However, I am saying that we have it a lot better off than a lot of people do, and ASA doesn't need to go "down" to make it so.

Well, I'm out for the night. Take care...

-Goose

 

[WalterSobchak]

What is the compromise here? We give up scope we get to keep our jobs? If there is to be a compromise then both parties need to participate, meaning JA will have to give something to XJT ALPA. Since he has not approached ALPA we do not know what he will do for us yet.

I don't really know or claim to know what the compromise is here...what I do know is you guys are already vocal in your willingness to throw everyone else in the company under the bus and into the unemployment line just to be able to say you stood up to "the man".

I understand you have an "obligation to 'the profession'" but, sometimes it takes the bigger man to pick your battles and do what is right for everyone...for your F/A's, your dispatchers, your ground personnel...and not just you. Of course, that would require your pilot ego to allow your pilot brain to think about someone other than yourself and I know that is asking a whole helluva lot from some of you.

Now, back to happy-fun joketime, because that's what dispatchers do best...I got your "whipsaw" right here, suckers!

 

[L.A.pilot]

what I do know is you guys are already vocal in your willingness to throw everyone else in the company under the bus and into the unemployment line just to be able to say you stood up to "the man".

This is incorrect. I have observed many people post that they would be willing to negotiate with management. Currently the ExpressJet pilots have a contract that protects their interests. SkyWest pilots have nothing of the like. Some have given the impression that all SkyWest pilots are blood-thirsty hyenas waiting to feast on the misfortunes of others. It really is making you look bad.

ASA and SkyWest are alter-ego airlines. They are two airlines under ownership of one company, run seperately with divided employee groups. A whipsaw occurs when one pilot group is threatened with loss of work to the other group during contract negotiations. SkyWest pilots have already been used as a tool by management to leverage itself during negotiations with the ASA pilots. No ASA pilots were put on the street last time, but they did lose growth aircraft. Next time may not be so pretty.

This is not new at the regional level: American Eagle used to be five different airlines that all came under ownership of AMR corp in the late 1990's. Management loved the whipsaw until the pilots were able to get an integrated seniority list and one contract. MESA started an alter ego airline from scratch during negotiations with their pilots, which strategically reduced the bargaining power of their pilots. The pilots ended up accepting what many consider a sub-standard contract in order to get strict scope and merger language in their contract.

Unfortunately, MESA management has run their airline into the ground. You would blame their pilots because they "stuck it to the man" and insisted that all of their flying would be done by pilots on their seniority list. The current state of their company is obviously not the pilots' fault.

The ExpressJet pilots have a contract that they worked hard for that protects their interests. If Mr. Atkin does not care about interests of the employees at ExpressJet, they should not bend over backwards (or bend over in any other manner) to accomodate him.

Common ownership=One list, one contract. Do not accept anything less than this.

 

[Nevets]

Just a few things. There are many ifs for this buyout to happen. If SKW decides to increase its offer, and if the XJT BOD accepts the offer, and if SKW completes "due diligence," and if CAL completes "due diligence," and if the SKW BOD approves, and if the XJT MEC successfully negotiate provisions that SKW wants revoked, and if the XJT pilots ratify the LOA, then there will be a buyout.

"Due diligence" means that if the XJT BOD agrees, presumably they would hand over the books and records to SKW for them to see if in fact they can cut a deal with CAL for a new CPA.

Also, SKW will not get our holding letter for free. They are required to negotiate. I think there is a compromise that the pilots are willing to entertain in this regard. I think this buyout could be beneficial to the XJT pilots. I think our pilots support our management team for not caving in to CAL when they released the 69 airplanes or when the arbitrator ruled that the CPA rates must be lowered. Neither time did they approach any of the labor groups for concessions. They could have easily done so or they could have just given up the 69 airplanes and furloughed thousands of employees. With that said, I don't think anyone wants to drive off the cliff with them either for all their good intentions. If the deal is right, this could be good for everyone.

One last thing. This does not mean that a deal between CAL and XJT cannot still be made. CAL left the door open on that in their letter. This was a concerted effort by both CAL and SKW. Hence the one two punch of letters sent on the same day. CAL is just using SKW to whipsaw XJT right now. Its a win win for CAL since they either get a "magnitude of savings" from SKW or from XJT.

 

[JoeMerchant]

How many airplanes with EV/AS registrations are flying around in SkyWest colors? How many more have been re-registered but still say ASA on the certificate of registration? I'm not even going to talk about the 900s, but I still have the memo from CT saying they would be ASA's.

I thought the "party line" from the ALPA cheerleaders was that management makes those decisions....Pilots don't....Are you now saying that pilots do have a say in where those aircraft go?

 

[XPOO]

Joe,

Again, why would Jerry reward the worst performing regional airline more growth? They can thump their chest and quote the ALPA bible whipsaw scripture as much as they want. It is sound business to stop the growth at ASA and get them back in a position to be successful first.

 

[sweptback]

I thought the "party line" from the ALPA cheerleaders was that management makes those decisions....Pilots don't....Are you now saying that pilots do have a say in where those aircraft go?

I have no idea who made the decision to move airplanes, but I'm pretty sure the ASA MEC didn't vote to have management transfer our aircraft.

 

[sweptback]

Joe,

Again, why would Jerry reward the worst performing regional airline more growth? They can thump their chest and quote the ALPA bible whipsaw scripture as much as they want. It is sound business to stop the growth at ASA and get them back in a position to be successful first.

XPOO,

So it was a sound business decision to move the 4 ASA 700s to SkyWest, costing almost $300,000 per airplane in the process? It was such a big expense that SkyWest, Inc. had to explain it in their quarterly results.

Since we all get paid on profit sharing, I'd expect more of an outcry from you. After all, that decision did reduce your payout for that quarter.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I have no idea who made the decision to move airplanes, but I'm pretty sure the ASA MEC didn't vote to have management transfer our aircraft.

....so was it whipsaw or not sweptback....Either it used by management or it isn't....You can't have it both ways....

Can actions by MECs affect the decisions of managment?

 

[XPOO]

XPOO,

So it was a sound business decision to move the 4 ASA 700s to SkyWest, costing almost $300,000 per airplane in the process? It was such a big expense that SkyWest, Inc. had to explain it in their quarterly results.

Since we all get paid on profit sharing, I'd expect more of an outcry from you. After all, that decision did reduce your payout for that quarter.

Whatever you have to tell yourself. They still had a profit margin that quarter that exceeded the previous year's. By the way, aren't all of those 70's flying exclusively out of SLC? So, by having SkyWest run those aircraft instead of ASA, that is not considered a sound business decision? Well, hell, I need to put in a vote for you on the BOD next time it comes around.

 

[WalterSobchak]

ASA and SkyWest are alter-ego airlines.

Now, last I checked, an alter-ego carrier is one that is created to circumvent the rules of a CBA...i.e; GoJet.

You can claim whipsaw all you want, but ASA and SkyWest are not "alter-ego carriers".

 

[flyboyzz1]

this thread is too large to handle