Skywest bid for USAirways 900 flying?

[SKYWRJGUY]

Surely you don't expect SGU to let us know what's going on until after the fact. That's never been part of the MO...we'll find out when you find out.

 

[EDUC8-or]

should the Yankees let the Sox win a few games, just to keep them on the same level? do they 'owe' that to them for the 'sake of the industry?' of course not, it's a stupid idea because they are COMPETING with each other, and to the winner goes the spoils. they play to WIN.

SkyWest is COMPETING with other regionals for future flying. we play to WIN, and winning is obtained by MAKING MORE $, gaining flying, and providing the best possible future so we don't LOSE our winnings.

if we make more than our competitors, continue to gain flying, and further solidify our position, aren't we winning? of course we are.

are you suggesting the we somehow 'owe' it to our competitors to just let them 'win a few?'

(no flame intended, but expecting the usual flames in return)

PS-GO SOX!!

The Yankees and the Sox don't play to win by lowering the bar (unlike SkyWorst).

And I'm a Cubs fan, so I'm just plain bitter during the sumer. Period.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Question, with this all being only a rumor it may be a moot point, did SKW or SKW, Inc bid for this flying? If it was SKW, Inc then the bid may be for ASA to fly the CR9. Once the ASA contract is settled, I don't see the SKW pay scales staying what they are for very long.

Fly Safe...

 

[007]

I think the reason a lot of guys at Skywest don't care is that they are mostly lifers there, with no intentions to go anywhere. So, in order to move up, the only thing to do is to undercut the majors. They all know this deep down somewhere.....but don't seem to worry about it too much. I think it's a great company, but if you guys don't wake up, you'll be flying a 737 for the 100-150 seat rate.

P.s. don't start with the argument that the majors pay the same for all the 737's, it's based on the biggest 73 they have not the smallest.

 

[Rogue5]

I think the reason a lot of guys at Skywest don't care is that they are mostly lifers there, with no intentions to go anywhere. So, in order to move up, the only thing to do is to undercut the majors. They all know this deep down somewhere.....

I am amazed that you have such insight into the career aspirations of over 2300 pilots. How do you account for the current shortage of Captains and the subsequent running of upgrades at max capacity in both aircraft? I was under the impression it had something to do with many of my friends moving on to CAL, SWA, going back to UAL, etc... I just had three buddies go interview at Cathay, and another is going to Emirates in a week or two, a couple of guys are working their angles at FDX and UPS (good luck on that), and this is just at one medium sized domicile. But you say SKYW pilots are lifers?

I'd venture to say that most pilots here are not lifers and that this is one of the very reasons they come here, get on, upgrade in a year or two, get treated fairly well while here and then are prepared and qualified to move on when the opportunity presents itself.

Lifers could probably be found more often at other regionals such as Horizon and Eagle where pilots are hired knowing full well upgrade is eons away but go there anyway.

I am not in any way condoning the 700/900 pay issue, but I am just amazed when people who have no idea of the mindset of a pilot group feel compelled (a la General Lee) to tell the world with absolute certainty how it works over here.

 

[front9]

but if you guys don't wake up, you'll be flying a 737 for the 100-150 seat rate.

You're right, we should be flying the 737 for the 250 - 400 seat rate. What we're we thinking?

 

[amcnd]

I think the reason a lot of guys at Skywest don't care is that they are mostly lifers there, with no intentions to go anywhere. So, in order to move up, the only thing to do is to undercut the majors. They all know this deep down somewhere.....but don't seem to worry about it too much. I think it's a great company, but if you guys don't wake up, you'll be flying a 737 for the 100-150 seat rate.

P.s. don't start with the argument that the majors pay the same for all the 737's, it's based on the biggest 73 they have not the smallest.

SkyWest is losing 26 pilot's a month to the majors! not all are "lifers"

 

[Socalplt]

Lifers? Sure the top 200-300 maybe.

If the junior captain at Eagle had come to Skywest at the same hire date he'd sit at about #400 of 2330.

 

[sflax]

When did the Majors starting hiring, did I miss that post. So is Mesa, Comair, ASA, and all the other ones are losing about the same. So these guys are willing to move over seas, that sounds good for about 1% of us.

 

[CallmeJB]

I've said before and repeat, I would hope that things work out for everyone, they live where they want, make a respectable amount of $, and their jobs are intact for as long as they would like them to be. I guess in some sort of fantasy world, that could be the case. the harsh reality is that we ARE each others competition, and those who can't compete will perish. it's business, plain and simple.

REM put it best: Everybody hurts, sometime.

PSA has been 'losing the competition'. Their hope for growth seemingly went out the window when AWAC bought (more or less) the flying for 70 rjs. Then when an opportunity came for PSA, a few of us tried to help them out so they could get what they deserve.

I hope your SkyWest 'winning' lasts forever, or at least long enough for you to upgrade and get your time. Because if you start 'losing' your flying and your profit sharing bonus, your attitude will probably change.

just my $.02

 

[Skaff]

What an ignorant post, seeing as how over 1200 of the 2300 have been here for less than 4 years. Mostly lifers? Loser.

I think the reason a lot of guys at Skywest don't care is that they are mostly lifers there, with no intentions to go anywhere. So, in order to move up, the only thing to do is to undercut the majors. They all know this deep down somewhere.....but don't seem to worry about it too much. I think it's a great company, but if you guys don't wake up, you'll be flying a 737 for the 100-150 seat rate.

P.s. don't start with the argument that the majors pay the same for all the 737's, it's based on the biggest 73 they have not the smallest.

 

[sflax]

I think what was meant is, what is their motivation to leave, and as more and more stay so will the payroll increases to a very large sum, and United will only pay so much for the flying.

 

[av8tor02]

I've got your "Deet de dee"

 

[n757st]

When did the Majors starting hiring, did I miss that post. So is Mesa, Comair, ASA, and all the other ones are losing about the same. So these guys are willing to move over seas, that sounds good for about 1% of us.

Continental 60/month, Southwest

and the nationals:

Jetblue, Frontier, Airtran... Places are hiring.

Oh... and UPS, FedEx....

Next time we will put a cover letter on the memo, sooooo about those TPS reports.

 

[007]

I am amazed that you have such insight into the career aspirations of over 2300 pilots.

I said a lot and mostly, never did I say ALL 2300.

upgrade in a year or two, get treated fairly well while here and then are prepared and qualified to move on when the opportunity presents itself.

while replacing the very same mainline jobs they are aspiring too. How much do you get for that MD-80 with winglets and 76 seats?

You're right, we should be flying the 737 for the 250 - 400 seat rate. What we're we thinking?

You say that like it's a good rate!

Loser.

How quick and argumentative.

I've got your "Deet de dee"

And I got your's, good times never last forever.

 

[SuperKooter]

The Future is at Skywest and CHQ.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Hey, I've got an "analogy" for you:

Everyday at ASA in the summer, there is at least 1 CRJ with a deferred APU. Many captains will refuse to fly it, citing passenger comfort/safety. So, it gets passed around from crew to crew until finally someone takes it.

If we ALL refused to fly it, maybe the company would strive to fix it ASAP. But instead, there is always some new upgrade/reserve captain who doesn't want to get into trouble who will take it. The end result is that MGMT thinks the rest of us are whining too much and hey, screw the pax anyway! End result is APU does not get fixed.

The captain who takes the A/C is not doing us/himself/pax ANY favors. But I guess by your definition he is "winning"

I love how guys who work for regionals who undercut all say "hey, it's the free market" "It's a new world" "I don't need the money" "don't hate the playa, hate the game" "I'm going to GET MINE and move up to Cathay Pacific so $crew you"

If all the regionals......ALL! refused to fly 90 seat A/c for substandard rates, then the rates would magically go up. But there's always some d0uchbag who will. I guess we know who they are.

Rant over. I just can't stand to hear this AGAIN!!!

 

[LandRoverNut]

Hey, I've got an "analogy" for you:

Everyday at ASA in the summer, there is at least 1 CRJ with a deferred APU. Many captains will refuse to fly it, citing passenger comfort/safety. So, it gets passed around from crew to crew until finally someone takes it.

If we ALL refused to fly it, maybe the company would strive to fix it ASAP. But instead, there is always some new upgrade/reserve captain who doesn't want to get into trouble who will take it. The end result is that MGMT thinks the rest of us are whining too much and hey, screw the pax anyway! End result is APU does not get fixed.

The captain who takes the A/C is not doing us/himself/pax ANY favors. But I guess by your definition he is "winning"
I love how guys who work for regionals who undercut all say "hey, it's the free market" "It's a new world" "I don't need the money" "don't hate the playa, hate the game" "I'm going to GET MINE and move up to Cathay Pacific so $crew you"

If all the regionals......ALL! refused to fly 90 seat A/c for substandard rates, then the rates would magically go up. But there's always some d0uchbag who will. I guess we know who they are.

Rant over. I just can't stand to hear this AGAIN!!!

AMEN BROTHER!!!!
PSA SAID NO if we all do lets see what happens, MGMT is already talking!
Come on guys lets work together and maybe my wife and kids can eat real fool. Thanks for listening! PEACE!!!!

 

[Tomct]

I've said before and repeat, I would hope that things work out for everyone, they live where they want, make a respectable amount of $, and their jobs are intact for as long as they would like them to be. I guess in some sort of fantasy world, that could be the case. the harsh reality is that we ARE each others competition, and those who can't compete will perish. it's business, plain and simple.

I understand precedence as a factor. I want to make more to fly the variants of the RJ, like anyone would. I also place a lot of value on maintaining our current flying, attracting new flying, and continuing to make at or above what I hear others that are comparably employed at other regionals make.

I post stuff that I believe to be the case, knowing it will incite the types of responses above. At the end of the day, however, it comes down to who delivers the best overall package, and for me, it is SkyWest. I'd probably feel different if I was from the East coast, despised the regionals, etc. To each his own.

Bluto, if we voted in ALPA, got paid more but started to continually lose flying, downsize our current fleet, and wither, are you suggesting that we would be better off? Of course no one knows if that would happen, but what does history show us? For me, it shows that SkyWest does things a little different, and as a result I make more, feel more secure about my future here . My family, lifestyle, QOL etc. will always trump antiquated notions of somehow 'owing it' to my fellow competitors.

anyway, back to the bitchfest. I need to go cash my Bonus checks anyway.

Man, I hope that you feel good about yourself because listening to you "CRAP Kool-Aid" makes me want to uke:! Everytime I meet a cool Skywst pilot, you go and make ALL Skywst pilots seem like idiots! Bluto, I like the way you think! You Sir are a class act!

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I don't think SkyMoron is representative of anyone but himself.
If you guys would quit quoting him in your posts I wouldn't have to read his drivel.
Maybe try ignoring him and see if he'll go away.
Someday he'll get over SJS.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I don't think SkyMoron is representative of anyone but himself.
If you guys would quit quoting him in your posts I wouldn't have to read his drivel.
Maybe try ignoring him and see if he'll go away.
Someday he'll get over SJS.

Agreed.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I don't think SkyMoron is representative of anyone but himself.
If you guys would quit quoting him in your posts I wouldn't have to read his drivel.
Maybe try ignoring him and see if he'll go away.
Someday he'll get over SJS.

I can only hope you're right Dave...but I really doubt it, sadly it seems his lone brain cell is floating in company kool-aid!

 

[Socalplt]

SkyMoron, good one. Give him a couple more years of 8 days off a month, no life outside of work, the wonders of PBS, life on never ending reserve after taking that first available upgrade, etc.

Wait till he times out in November and finds out no pay checks for the next 4-6 weeks.

 

[SkyNation]

promise guys? do you promise I can someday be a bitter malcontent like ya'll? gosh!

I'd say 80% of people I fly with share my general view that we have it better than most. 100% of the people I've asked have the same impression of Mr. Benjamin, I'll let you guess if it's favorable or not. Be careful what seeds you sow, Sir.

I'll leave myself open to all the ridiculous criticisms and put-downs. This is, after all, the most mean-spirited forum I've ever come across. But seriously, I want to know what people really think and why. So if you can articulate a well thought out position on a few things, I'd love to hear it.

1-Do we agree SkyWest is a successful company? If so, how would a union-specifically ALPA-help to ensure that continued success?

2-why would management not want a union? is it because it would possibly hurt or hamper the company? Do you believe it's purely a pride issue about control? If it could somehow help the company solidify it's positions and become stronger, don't you think they'd be all for it?

3-Most (not all) people I've spoken with on the OC for ALPA are, in my words, malcontents and complainers. They have a very 'what's in it for me (us) attitude. I know that some are very much the opposite, having flown with the main guy of the OC. Do you think relations would improve, stay the same, or degrade with these folks on the MEC? I know we'd elect our own, but I'm doubting people from the other side (mostly happy, optimistic folks who appreciate what we've accomplished at SkyWest) would want to be part of the inherent adversarial relationship.

name calling and ripping on someone for not sharing your view has become too much the norm on this board. I really do want to hear peoples thoughts, and if you just can't help but interject them with the insults, so be it.

looking forward to insightful replies

 

[nethan]

I'm really not big with the name calling and honestly I haven't been following this thread but I can respond to this post specificly...

What's the problem with Skywest not having a union like ALPA (note I didn't say ALPA specificly)? The problem is that you guys agree to fly three different airframes with a range of 40 seats for the same rate. I know it was only temporary, but see how well that worked out. So you agree to do it and then another company looks at that and says "oh, well, let's have our guys do that too". And it goes on from there and the bar drops down another notch. Unfortunatly pattern bargaining works both ways.

 

[SkyNation]

nethan,

I agree. I only know of one guy who has said he doesn't care about flying the variants for the same rate, that he's happy to do it. I look at it more as choosing your battles. I think someday we'll have a different rate for the 50 and the 70/90. I don't think it'll be much, more of a token concession to us. That battle is still being fought. I feel you have to consider the entire picture. While we may have 'lost' (or not yet won) the battle in some areas, overall I still feel we are winning by positioning ourselves to remain healthy, solidify the future, attract more flying, etc. I would expect all companies to do the same for their own good, which ultimately is for their employees good. I don't think we are beholden to employees at other companies any more than Xerox is beholden to IBM, UPS is beholden to FedEx, or the Yankees beholden to the Red Sox to make sure 'everyone stays on the same level and has the same success.' It's competition, and I believe in the free market. Innovation and new ways of thinking will always be necessary, and those who fail to adjust to an ever changing market will ultimately perish.

 

[nethan]

And that my friend, is the problem right there. I'll let somebody else tear apart what you just said.

 

[UncleRico]

SkyNation

You are absolutely right SkyNation, the free market is great, for Management. How many millions of stock dollars will you see with the success of your company? None. How many more contracts and precedents will be set by flying blended rates, poor schedules, etc.? Many. Although ALPA may not always win, they are constantly fighting management in the free market. The free market is what drives our country, but it is also what drives our wages. Management will drive down your income for no reason other than to make more money for themselves, not the company, and that is why unions are a necessary evil. Unions used to stand together and not let management push them around. Unfortunately, the solidarity of unions is weak, but it is getting stronger. You may not have to organize and unionize, but at least take pride in yourself and your profession. Pilots worked very hard to make this a career worthwhile, and unfortunately if all you care about is flying a jet for low wages because it helps the company, then you have gone down the wrong path. At least with a union you would have a voice in what your QOL is at SkyWest. You may not recieve it, but at least you could voice your opinion on certain matters. I have heard honesty is what drives your company. Honestly, they are making millions off of you.

 

[SkyNation]

SkyNation

Although ALPA may not always win, they are constantly fighting management in the free market.

That is true and very sad. I don't share the idea that management is the boogeyman and is waiting to screw me just for kicks and bucks. Our management has a track record of doing what they are there to do in a very successful way. I'd put them up against any other regionals management. Of course they are looking to minimize costs while maximizing profits.

Management will drive down your income for no reason other than to make more money for themselves, not the company, and that is why unions are a necessary evil.

I won't totally disagree with that. I'd add, though, that a skilled management team will realize that happy employees=a successful company. They have to walk the fine line of providing the best possible work environment while remaining fiercely competetive. Again, while not perfect, I think SkyWest management has a great track record of doing that.

You may not have to organize and unionize, but at least take pride in yourself and your profession. Pilots worked very hard to make this a career worthwhile, and unfortunately if all you care about is flying a jet for low wages because it helps the company, then you have gone down the wrong path.

I worked for a long time, spent tons of money, and went through a ton (just like most, I'm sure) to get where I am. I am very proud of myself and the profession. I'm not sure why you would think you have to have a union to feel that way?

At least with a union you would have a voice in what your QOL is at SkyWest. You may not recieve it, but at least you could voice your opinion on certain matters.

I'm not categorically opposed to a union. I'd entertain a solid in-house unit a la SWA. I am very interested, however, in results. What works, what doesn't. All I, or anyone else, can do is look around the industry and compare. As I continually do that, I have yet to be impressed enough with the overall QOL, stability, total pay, etc. of any ALPA regional to the point where I'd say 'man, I wish we were more like them at ______ Airlines.' What is continually remarkable is the number of newhires we get from other regionals represented by ALPA. A recent newhire class had folks from ASA, Comair, Mesa, Horizon and TSA. A friend of mine in the training department said that is true of each class that comes through. Why would these people leave these places to come to a non-union airline if it is so essential and can provide something (according to some) so much better?

I have heard honesty is what drives your company. Honestly, they are making millions off of you.

Again, that is their job. I'll continue to do mine, which I'm happy with, optimistic about, and proud of. To suggest I'm getting screwed somehow just doesn't hold water. If you preach how bad we have it at SkyWest, all I have to do is consider my QOL, pay, and the future of this company. It all tells a very different story.

 

[UncleRico]

SkyNation

If you get the opportunity, read the book "Hard Landing". I hope it opens your eyes to how great the industry was and how management has torn it down. I guess everyone sees things through their own eyes, but I really have a problem understanding how blind you are to the realities in aviation. Comair had a great contract, but because SkyWest is cheaper Delta looks to them. All you and your pilot group had to do was negotiate scales comparable to Comair and we wouldn't be having these issues. Wait you have management employees negotiating your contract. Once again you had no say in how your QOL would be affected as well as the QOL of others would be affected. If SkyWest management was so great, how can they not reward their employees with more than $6000 profit sharing, while making multimillions. If that doesn't bother you, and you are happy with what you have, then I guess it will take your first ankle grabbing session to change your mind.