Skywest..ALPA?

[Brazilgun]

It depends on what measuring stick you use...

If you look at ALPA in terms of what is the organization doing for me right now, then you can look at those tangible items.

What you don't see what ALPA does for the profession is much more profound. But in order to "see" you have to look. You have to activate.

ALPA is a political organization, not personal assistant to your career. ALPA doesn't wash you, put on your uniform and open coach door like a 18th Century Lordship would be treated....

There are many things that ALPA does nationally and internationally that most pilots don't know about. Why? Because pilot refuse to get connected. There are forces and changes occuring constantly, such as Open Skies, that effect your career. What do you know about Open Skies?

There are events, such as making a terrorist act akin to striking, that are stopped that you don't hear about, but if a legal job action were equating to an act of terrorism then you ability to negotiate a better BA would be seriously hampered..

Also, there is an expectation of ALPA, whether it is real or not, that ALPA is supposed to protect ones career. Well, yes, but it is not that simple and easy. In addition, management and the FAA doesn't have an obligation to listen to a pilots concern. ALPA does.

I appreciate your answer. I agree with you. I know ALPA has done more then just try to provide better TA for the pilots. I just don't think that ALPA alone made those changes. They only occurred because the pilot group spoke up about it. I strong believe that if we have a major issue today, the pilots can speak up and could get things done, regardless if you're ALPA, teamster, SAPA, Southwest Union, etc.
I don't have anything against ALPA. At Mesa(my previous airline) things were bad, but they would have been much worst without ALPA. I just don't understand this "fever" about getting ALPA on Skywest. I don't drink the koolaid they give us here, I just simply think with ALPA things will take a turn for the worst.
I said it once and I will say again. If you can prove to me things will be better here with ALPA around, I will vote tomorrow morning.

 

[SkyNation]

I just don't understand this "fever" about getting ALPA on Skywest. I just simply think with ALPA things will take a turn for the worst.
I said it once and I will say again. If you can prove to me things will be better here with ALPA around, I will vote tomorrow morning.

you are in the majority in your feelings. when it comes down to it, most of us (many former ALPA) realize that even though it's not perfect, what we have here at SkyWest is really good.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I appreciate your answer. I agree with you. I know ALPA has done more then just try to provide better TA for the pilots. I just don't think that ALPA alone made those changes. They only occurred because the pilot group spoke up about it. I strong believe that if we have a major issue today, the pilots can speak up and could get things done, regardless if you're ALPA, teamster, SAPA, Southwest Union, etc.
I don't have anything against ALPA. At Mesa(my previous airline) things were bad, but they would have been much worst without ALPA. I just don't understand this "fever" about getting ALPA on Skywest. I don't drink the koolaid they give us here, I just simply think with ALPA things will take a turn for the worst.
I said it once and I will say again. If you can prove to me things will be better here with ALPA around, I will vote tomorrow morning.

You mean like the fantastic 0%, or even better 1% pay increase SAPA negotiated for a 101/2 year time frame?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I appreciate your answer. I agree with you. I know ALPA has done more then just try to provide better TA for the pilots. I just don't think that ALPA alone made those changes. They only occurred because the pilot group spoke up about it. I strong believe that if we have a major issue today, the pilots can speak up and could get things done, regardless if you're ALPA, teamster, SAPA, Southwest Union, etc.

You have a point...up to a point. Recall that SWAPA, APA and NPA purchase critical services to negotiate thier contracts. Also the NTSB invites ALPA to accident investigations even if it wasn't an ALPA pilot flying the jet. No other pilot group is routinely invited to be party. ALPA has been called by a former FAA Administrator- the conscious of the airline industry.

The airline industry is global now. Taking an isolationist position is what the Skywest pilots are doing and its going to come back to haunt.

Everyting that effects your career is determined at some point, some way, on Capitol Hill. What are the Skywest pilots doing on CapHill? Not much if anything at all.

With the new Open Skies deal that is coming and the massive changes that could effect Skywest pilots, they will have no say in thier future. Whether that future is at Skywest or a career destination.

I don't have anything against ALPA. At Mesa(my previous airline) things were bad, but they would have been much worst without ALPA. I just don't understand this "fever" about getting ALPA on Skywest. I don't drink the koolaid they give us here, I just simply think with ALPA things will take a turn for the worst.
I said it once and I will say again. If you can prove to me things will be better here with ALPA around, I will vote tomorrow morning.

Is the above that I've said enough? If not... tell me why.

 

[sweptback]

True, the pilots also turned down another concesionary deal that would have helped the company.

More correctly, the pilots turned down a concessionary deal because they knew it wouldn't help the company. It would just be used as a benchmark at other airlines.

 

[ArcticFlier]

Here is another example. Letter just dropped today by the OC.



Who the hell do these people think they are? Have any pilots complained about the lack of ALPA information available? They call us all the time, they are always talking to newhires, they have fliers everywhere. Did they have access to V-files during the last campaign? If not why didn't they complain then? There is also a right to not be bombarded with union crap. These guys are really something else. I have never heard any pilot complain about the stuff these guys are whining about. What a waste of resources. There is no where in the RLA that says the company has to help ALPA get voted in. That is ALPAs job to convince us to vote for them. So far they are doing a piss poor job, especially with letters like this.

The tone just keeps getting more and more hostile. More and more pilots are getting fed up with crap like this. They are only hurting their cause not helping it. BTW still waiting for that VARS update that was due over a week ago. They are terrible at keeping promises but good at trying to ruin our relationship with management.

I'm confused. What does a letter from ALPA have to do with your attempt to speak for me (see post 62)? Time and again you use words like 'we' and 'us'. Try on the word 'me' or 'I' next time. I'm tired of your need to validate your worthless, short-sighted opinions by saying that you speak for the pilot group at SkyWest.

There is also a right not to be bombarded with union crap

You don't have a right to not be bombarded by 'union crap'. You have the right to throw it in the trash prioir to reading it, however.

I have never heard any pilot complain.........blah, blah, blah

You apparently don't pay attention to anyone but yourself, do you?

.......but good at trying to ruin our relationship with management

You mean the one-sided, shove PBS down our throats, change the rules regarding how we get paid for cancelled legs relationship? Sounds kind of like the relationship one has with a spouse that has become an overbearing, holy-than-thou know-it-all like you.

 

[SkyNation]

Arctic

My life has gotten much better since PBS came on. I make more than my friends at other airlines who are similar to us. I am happy here, and feel like we have a good thing going overall.

so, who speaks for 'us' or 'we' at SkyWest, you or me? neither? both?

it's stupid to argue, of course everyone's situation is different. as for the ALPA debate, if more people feel like you, then it should sail through to a majority vote. if not, it will falter. we can only wait and see.

in the mean time, many ALPA carriers are hiring. I've worked at one, have you?

(no, it wasn't Mesa)

 

[ArcticFlier]

Quite frankly, you haven't got a freakin' clue how I feel about ALPA. You may assume that I'm for ALPA, given my tag below......................but what you don't know is my motivations. Stop with the assumptions as they make an ass out of you. I've seen what ALPA has done to many people............right or wrong. In my case...............take a guess............................can't can you? Where do I stand? If I took the emo stand, I'd be anti ALPA. If I took the intellectual stand...............where would I be? Answer that, my friend. Again, you can't.................from an educated standpoint. I'm tired of HelloNewman attempting to speak for all of us at SkyWest............that is all............


Normal Speed,

 

[SkyNation]

ouch! touchy, touchy.

ok, so where do you stand?

(honest question)

 

[CFIT]

Artic,
An extensive survey was conducted concerning PBS, and as a surprise it had substantial amount of participation considering much of our pilot group has been tagged as apithetic. If I recall there were well over 1500 pilots that responded. The high majority had given a PBS a strong vote of approval, and when asked if they had a choice to return to the previous built line format wanted to remain with PBS.

Although I am not a real big fan of PBS either, and very senior, I think it's an improvement.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Artic,
An extensive survey was conducted concerning PBS, and as a surprise it had substantial amount of participation considering much of our pilot group has been tagged as apithetic. If I recall there were well over 1500 pilots that responded. The high majority had given a PBS a strong vote of approval, and when asked if they had a choice to return to the previous built line format wanted to remain with PBS.

Although I am not a real big fan of PBS either, and very senior, I think it's an improvement.

Have to disagree with you...in its present form PBS is not an improvement! The pairings are getting worse(lower credit with the same or even longer duty time)! This means getting less days off to achieve the same credit for the month as prior to PBS, and then there are the forced pairings that get thrown on your schedule for "coverage"?.

 

[Gnarloooo]

Hey you A$$. 60 percent is not a high majority. PBS is the biggest concession ever given to managment without a fight. Next time don't say such stupid things and I won't have to beeatch slap you in front of all these nice people.

P.S. You think 5 day 21 hour trips are fun? F U.

 

[planesrcool]

i think u guys r all really stupid for wantin alpo ooppps i mean alpa. stupid is stupid does

 

[hoover]

All I hear is “what has ALPA done for me” / “what has ALPA done for other airlines”…instead, to echo an often quoted President… “what can I do for ALPA?” ALPA is a professional organization that promotes the airline pilots’ viewpoint to airline managements, to the general public and to our elected officials in DC. It is an organization made up of primarily volunteers dedicated to safety, raising the standards of OUR lives, and pay industry-wide. ALPA is involved in lawmaking, aeromedical issues, development of aircraft, and in each of our lives to a certain extent whether we are ALPA or not.
As a pilot who has been furloughed from strong union carrier and now finds themselves at a non-union shop, I can say that I hope ALPA succeeds in their goals of unifying the PROFESSION and not caving in to the “what has ALPA done for me” selfishness.

If ALPA were truly the selfless organization you describe it to be, then the top people there would not be getting paid two to three times what they would be paid if they were flying the line.

If ALPA were the truly the democratic organization it claims to be, then it wouldn't be blacklisting and labeling as scabs all those who don't fall into lockstep with the party line. True democracy welcomes, even encourages, dissent. ALPA does none of that.

ALPA is a business, dedicated to the advancement of its own agenda, just like every other business. Their business is convincing you that the only way you can have a decent job or career is by paying them your 2%

A non-ALPA (note, I did not say non-union) Skywest is more of a threat to ALPA than it is to Skywest pilots.

 

[CFIT]

I was in the survey stats, I didn't make it up, and I don't care.


Have fun on your 5 day trip junior turd, F U too.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If ALPA were truly the selfless organization you describe it to be, then the top people there would not be getting paid two to three times what they would be paid if they were flying the line.

Wrong. Me thinks you don't even know how many TOP guys there are. Only the president gets a salary and that is determined democratically by the membership.

If ALPA were the truly the democratic organization it claims to be, then it wouldn't be blacklisting and labeling as scabs all those who don't fall into lockstep with the party line. True democracy welcomes, even encourages, dissent. ALPA does none of that.

Individuals don't necessarily speak for the organization. Do a few Americans who hate muslims speak for you?

ALPA is a business, dedicated to the advancement of its own agenda, just like every other business. Their business is convincing you that the only way you can have a decent job or career is by paying them your 2%

What agenda is that?

Runway safety?
Fair and Reasonable pay and work rules for the Air Line Pilot Profession?
Protecting globalization from giving our jobs away to foreign countries
Due Process

What are the Skywest pilots doing to help the profession?
http://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/...sView.aspx?itemid=7733&ModuleId=8300&Tabid=73

or this...

http://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/...View.aspx?itemid=7707&ModuleId=2044&Tabid=256

A non-ALPA (note, I did not say non-union) Skywest is more of a threat to ALPA than it is to Skywest pilots.

Skywest not becomming ALPA is bad for both groups. Not today. The trick is to look 10 years down the road. With foreign control and Open Skies agreements that will make your wages and work rules obsolete, wating till the storm and then realizing you need shelter isn't going to work....

The degredation of work rules has already begun at Skywest. The profit margins and operating room is getting tighter and tighter at every regional. I'm not sure how Skywest can keep it up before the bottom drops out....

United we negotiate divided we beg....

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I was in the survey stats, I didn't make it up, and I don't care.


Have fun on your 5 day trip junior turd, F U too.

Somehow the fabulous PBS allowed me to get 6 on, 2 off...(and I'm not junior), and its not that I don't know how to use PBS either(even went over my bid with one of the PBS "trainers" because I was sick of getting crappy schedules with it)!

 

[Rekks Inbound]

They say want 70% of the cards back. Last time they had 70 % they still got voted down anyway.Thank god for that. I dare say that SkyWest would probably be out of buisness like ACA if that union drive passed in 1999. Basically the majority is not interested in actually voting for the union so this drama with letters back and forth is just one desperate gasp of air trying to keep intrest alive. It is actually turning people off.

All I can say, is WOW! It is now obvious to me that you could NOT have been in this business for more than 2 years, since you would know that ACA MANAGEMENT made the decision to go independent (a flawed BUSINESS plan, by flawed MANAGEMENT). A lot of ACA guys are at AWAC now, and although they would have liked it to work, it was not ALPA's plan. I get this from them whenever I fly with them (all great guys and gals, by the way).

You get dumber by the minute!

Rekks

 

[HelloNewman]

All I can say, is WOW! It is now obvious to me that you could NOT have been in this business for more than 2 years, since you would know that ACA MANAGEMENT made the decision to go independent (a flawed BUSINESS plan, by flawed MANAGEMENT). A lot of ACA guys are at AWAC now, and although they would have liked it to work, it was not ALPA's plan. I get this from them whenever I fly with them (all great guys and gals, by the way).

You get dumber by the minute!

Rekks

Actually ACA management tried to salvage the UAL flying. The pilots were the ones that voted down the chance to stay in the game. They were advised by none other than your precious ALPA. That being said lets look at the Skywest side of things for a minute. The hotline has not been updated the last two pay periods. The dumbasses PROMISED to update it every pay period. They just cancelled the meeting in ORD at the last minute. Boy talk about an unorganized union drive.

I think the retards in the OC are finally realizing their efforts are futile. Either run a vote or go away. Basically the ALPA/OC are a bunch of cowards. They know the majority don't want ALPA so they try and create as much drama as possible to keep some interest alive. They sure look like morons though, especially promising a meeting in ORD today then cancelling it at the last minute! LOL they are bumbling, unorganized idiots. They should be called the UOC, unorganized commitee LOL. Maybe they can write us all a letter about how it is unfair that Skywest pilots hang up on ALPA people when they call hahaha.

 

[Howard Hughes]

These ant-ALPA people kind of remind me of the "make peace not war" people that protest anything dealing with the military. They enjoy the freedom to go on their little rants and carry on like they do but dont realize that same freedom must be protected and fought for at a price. These lemmings that think not having a union and therefore lack of ability to engage and fight the constant attacks of work rules and pay our industry is frought with do not deserve ANY of the benefits their ALPA brothers/sisters, past or present have brought them. My prediction is that the regionals have reached their mature phase of the business cycle and in the coming months start the decline phase, ultimately being reduced in scope and size. Lets make a list of those who stepped up to the plate to DO SOMETHING to make a difference and separate them from those who were only interested in securing more shiny jets for themselves at the expense of ultimately every pilot in the industry around them. These lame weenies that can only think in the singular need to be accounted for and when the time is right, left behind (ie blocked from advancement to other companies while the people willing to fight the good fight are elevated away from the sheep that only gave a dang about themselves). Off soapbox.

 

[HelloNewman]

These ant-ALPA people kind of remind me of the "make peace not war" people that protest anything dealing with the military. They enjoy the freedom to go on their little rants and carry on like they do but dont realize that same freedom must be protected and fought for at a price. These lemmings that think not having a union and therefore lack of ability to engage and fight the constant attacks of work rules and pay our industry is frought with do not deserve ANY of the benefits their ALPA brothers/sisters, past or present have brought them. My prediction is that the regionals have reached their mature phase of the business cycle and in the coming months start the decline phase, ultimately being reduced in scope and size. Lets make a list of those who stepped up to the plate to DO SOMETHING to make a difference and separate them from those who were only interested in securing more shiny jets for themselves at the expense of ultimately every pilot in the industry around them. These lame weenies that can only think in the singular need to be accounted for and when the time is right, left behind (ie blocked from advancement to other companies while the people willing to fight the good fight are elevated away from the sheep that only gave a dang about themselves). Off soapbox.

This isn't Russia, we at SkyWest owe NOTHING to the ALPA/union fellows. If we rode on unions coat tails the last 35 years then tough. Unions and theiur members know it is a free market economy. You can only use false market forces for so long. What has happened in the last 5-6 years is what we call balance. The unions got too strong and now market forces have provided a balance. Balance is the only way buisness can go on. Union members choose to pay the dues and take the risk that someone else may step on their back on the way. The free market system is the best in the world!

 

[rptrain]

Actually ACA management tried to salvage the UAL flying. The pilots were the ones that voted down the chance to stay in the game. They were advised by none other than your precious ALPA.

stop arguing with this guy because he's clearly in management "fantasy land." in the "real world" the United TA passed at ACA.

heads he wins, tails we lose.

 

[Brazilgun]

Everyting that effects your career is determined at some point, some way, on Capitol Hill. What are the Skywest pilots doing on CapHill? Not much if anything at all.

With the new Open Skies deal that is coming and the massive changes that could effect Skywest pilots, they will have no say in thier future. Whether that future is at Skywest or a career destination.

I don't think ALPA has done much on Capitol Hill. The majority of ALPA pilots voted against the age 65 rule. We all know what happened. Virgin America got it's approval. Where was ALPA?

But you're right. ALPA is on Capitol Hill. If they are doing anything at all is a different story.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Actually ACA management tried to salvage the UAL flying. The pilots were the ones that voted down the chance to stay in the game.

Wrong.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

This isn't Russia, we at SkyWest owe NOTHING to the ALPA/union fellows. If we rode on unions coat tails the last 35 years then tough. Unions and theiur members know it is a free market economy. You can only use false market forces for so long. What has happened in the last 5-6 years is what we call balance. The unions got too strong and now market forces have provided a balance. Balance is the only way buisness can go on. Union members choose to pay the dues and take the risk that someone else may step on their back on the way. The free market system is the best in the world!

Please provide a detailed comparative analysis of the martime industry and its possible relation to the airline industry...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't think ALPA has done much on Capitol Hill.

That is relative and subjective... but why would you say that?

 

[Obi-Wan]

This isn't Russia, we at SkyWest owe NOTHING to the ALPA/union fellows. If we rode on unions coat tails the last 35 years then tough. Unions and theiur members know it is a free market economy. You can only use false market forces for so long. What has happened in the last 5-6 years is what we call balance. The unions got too strong and now market forces have provided a balance. Balance is the only way buisness can go on. Union members choose to pay the dues and take the risk that someone else may step on their back on the way. The free market system is the best in the world!

Thank god this isnt the old soviet republic, because Unions were illegal in Russia. We live in a free society and have the right to organize.

 

[jbDC9]

I think the retards in the OC....

Oh, now that's just rich. The biggest retard on this board is calling someone else retards? Funny.

we at SkyWest owe NOTHING to the ALPA/union fellows

For god's sake, quit acting as a spokesman for SKW pilots! And, may I add that your statement there shows just how stupid and naive you really are...

News flash for ya Newman; you're an idiot.