Skywest..ALPA?

[Gr82Aviate]

Thank you,
After 8 years and numerous "hello newwoman"s, all of which come then go, are only out for themselves. They are the same $hitheads who leave 1/2 bottles of water in the cockpit, old releases, cheesey poof crumbs and jizz stains all over the cockpit from their constant jacking off, from their chronic SJS symptoms. Oh yes "hellonewwoman", eaaat $hit!
PBR

Couldn't agree with you more!

 

[duck_killer]

From Newman
"If we stay non union we save part of our checks, we continute to have the ability to be flexible in a competitive environment, we can continue to wait to see what other airlines get wage wise then increase our wages to that level."

That is a lie plain and simple. Not a half truth, not a shade of gray but a F#CKING LIE.

That has never happeend before. The recent "pay proposal" sales pitch didn't include any airilnes that paid better than us (XJT, Comair et all.)

You ORD based?

 

[jayme]

If a ALPA is passed at SkyWest, I think it will barely pass. If SAPA elections are only getting 20%, what makes you think turnout would be any higher? Especially when so many don't want ALPA.

SAPA elections get low turnout precisely BECAUSE they are SAPA elections. We lost our confidence in SAPA. Why vote when the chioce is between a super-crappy option or just a crappy option?

 

[John Pennekamp]

It's a minority of Skywest pilots here (a very small amount) that wants to be ALPA; mainly so they could say and feel part of the brotherhood. It's funny how there is more of you that have never worked at Skywest or know anything about the work enviroment here that want to see ALPA here. Why don't you all just mind your own house and stop worrying about us. I guess misery loves company, hey!

Well over 50% of your pilot group have returned cards. That doesn't sound like a "minority" or a "very small amount" to me! What say you to THAT, sport?

 

[John Pennekamp]

Ask the ALPA reps what will happen if Midwest and AirTran merge. Listen to their response...and then ask them what went wrong with TWA and American.

I agree that ALPA has done some fine work. I just don't think that they represent EACH airline fairly and they have a propensity to allow politics (internal) to skew what their first and foremost priorities should be: representing the membership with the voracity of a hungry Pitbull in a butcher shop.

stlflyguy

Skywest ALPA and Airtran/Midwest have NOTHING in common with AA/TWA.

Do you truly understand what happened to TWA?

They were bankrupt and facing liquidation (that means your company ceases operations and everybody loses their jobs). AA bid for TWA and Carty stipulated that the deal was contingent upon the TWA MEC waiving it's scope clause. Forced to choose between tanking the deal and having everybody on the street, or taking the deal and screwing all of them, but saving the jobs of some, the TWA MEC took the least-worst option.

You CAN'T blame ALPA for that! It was a choice made by an INDEPENDENT MEC in a very bad situation.

 

[nimtz]

Wow Newman you really have shown your full hand. I hope your QOL in the barbie jet is so astronomical that you never want to leave it. Fins' words put you exactly where you belong. I know I wouldn't want you in my pilot group and now I have no doubt you would gladly cross a picket line to join it.

 

[TWA Dude]

Do you truly understand what happened to TWA? ... Forced to choose between tanking the deal and having everybody on the street, or taking the deal and screwing all of them, but saving the jobs of some, the TWA MEC took the least-worst option.

Do YOU truly understand what happened? Um, no. The sale was going to go through one way or another. The choice our MEC faced was to voluntarily give up our successorship clause or face 100% abrogation of our contract. That's what the bankruptcy judge told us. He specifically said he couldn't alter our CBA; he could only abrogate the whole thing. Our MEC acted upon the advice of our ALPA-National-supplied-and-paid-for attornery and made the change. I repeat: the sale would've gone through regardless of the action of our MEC. (It turns out that judge was wrong but nobody knew that since the section 1113 bankruptcy filing was unprecedented.)

You CAN'T blame ALPA for that! It was a choice made by an INDEPENDENT MEC in a very bad situation.

One of the first and most-important things done at America West was hiring a merger attorney who reports only to the AWA MEC and not to Duane Woerth (or now Prater). Turns out that while TWA was facing down the APA ALPA-National was still actively recruiting the APA to rejoin. There's plenty of reason to blame ALPA.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Do YOU truly understand what happened? Um, no. The sale was going to go through one way or another. The choice our MEC faced was to voluntarily give up our successorship clause or face 100% abrogation of our contract. That's what the bankruptcy judge told us. He specifically said he couldn't alter our CBA; he could only abrogate the whole thing. Our MEC acted upon the advice of our ALPA-National-supplied-and-paid-for attornery and made the change. I repeat: the sale would've gone through regardless of the action of our MEC. (It turns out that judge was wrong but nobody knew that since the section 1113 bankruptcy filing was unprecedented.)One of the first and most-important things done at America West was hiring a merger attorney who reports only to the AWA MEC and not to Duane Woerth (or now Prater). Turns out that while TWA was facing down the APA ALPA-National was still actively recruiting the APA to rejoin. There's plenty of reason to blame ALPA.

Thanks for the correction and clearing that up.

 

[John Pennekamp]

The SkyWest pilots have not seen the local benefits of ALPA and just because you are ALPA doesn't mean it is a hostile work environment. JetExpress seems to have a good relationship with management and they are working together to do some interesting things. It seems FedEx guys are pretty happy and even the most militant arm of ALPA, Delta pilots, are happy(ier) these days.

In the history of our profession there have always been pilots like Hello Newman. The Air Mail pilots used to suffer a mortality rate which once reached 80%. When 10 other more experienced pilots determined a flight was too risky - there was a Hello Newman willing to launch. Today there is always a Hello Newman who is eager to run over and try to undercut a pilot who has negotiated a raise, or better working conditions. Hello Newman is simply out for himself.

To want to belong to ALPA is to want something more for your profession. To want to work with other professionals to raise the standards in your industry.

Today we face a crisis in the United States. US airlines are understaffed and working conditions at airlines in China, India and the Arabian desert are better jobs than flying in the nation that invented powered flight. This is a crisis brought about by alter ego replacement flying which now makes up as much as 49% of some major carrier's block hours. The only way to face this problem and make for a more stable future is to come together in such a way that a pilot's concessionary pay is not the factor which decides which airlines prosper and which airlines fail.

We can not afford to leave part of this profession behind. With 49% of the mainline flying having been put out to bid there are fewer mainline jobs for us to "escape" to. With no brand, our leased airplanes can be transferred as fast as new, cheap, replacement labor can be trained.

ALPA is the only effective way to coordinate a response amongst pilot groups.

Is ALPA perfect, no. But is there a better solution to the Hello Newman factor? The way I see it, ALPA is the only way to work together to raise our profession.

Fins, you hit that one out of the park!

 

[Dprime]

Even though I believe the benifits of a union outweigh the drawbacks, I dont believe you are obligated to join one. I do believe however that you ARE obligated not to accept a 4% override on an aircraft with 40% more capacity. Im sure you are all here for your 500 hours TT and then out...but before you vote in a pay rate that effects the ENTIRE industry... ask the 10 year guys in the crew lounge if that was thier plan too.

 

[CFIT]

Anybody know the timeline for the actual vote, or is ALPA looking to garner more support before a vote is announced?

 

[John Pennekamp]

Anybody know the timeline for the actual vote, or is ALPA looking to garner more support before a vote is announced?

Vote expected late summer to early fall. Alpa is waiting to get 70%+ of the cards back.

 

[Brazilgun]

Any of the "other airlines" ALPA pilots here, tell me something:
Why does ALPA care so much for SKYW? Why do they want ALPA here? Is it because we need a better contract? Is it because we need better quality of life?
Somebody posted that PBS is giving you 6 on 2 off? Show me how many lines are 6 on 2 off. Plus, what are you bidding? If they are bidding for "max flight/block hours" they are getting what they are asking for. I came from MESA( an ALPA carrier for those that don't know). 10 year captains could hold a line at the most junior base (IAD), but only 6 on 2 off. That's 10 years a ALPA carrier. What has ALPA done for them? NOTHING!
Don't give me that crap that ALPA is trying to come over here because they care for our quality of life.
I said it once and I will say it again. If they care that much, spend their time and efforts on those airlines that they already represent and THEN come talk to us.
Is because they want us to be "part of the brotherhood"? To be united together? How come I don't see an ALPA drive @ UPS? @ SWA? Are they not good enough to be part of the "brotherhood"?:angryfire

 

[ERJFO]

Any of the "other airlines" ALPA pilots here, tell me something:
Why does ALPA care so much for SKYW? Why do they want ALPA here? Is it because we need a better contract? Is it because we need better quality of life?
Somebody posted that PBS is giving you 6 on 2 off? Show me how many lines are 6 on 2 off. Plus, what are you bidding? If they are bidding for "max flight/block hours" they are getting what they are asking for. I came from MESA( an ALPA carrier for those that don't know). 10 year captains could hold a line at the most junior base (IAD), but only 6 on 2 off. That's 10 years a ALPA carrier. What has ALPA done for them? NOTHING!
Don't give me that crap that ALPA is trying to come over here because they care for our quality of life.
I said it once and I will say it again. If they care that much, spend their time and efforts on those airlines that they already represent and THEN come talk to us.
Is because they want us to be "part of the brotherhood"? To be united together? How come I don't see an ALPA drive @ UPS? @ SWA? Are they not good enough to be part of the "brotherhood"?:angryfire

Other ALPA pilots believe that your non-union airline is more competitive when it comes to reciving CPA's and view your ALPA drive as self survival for them more than yourselfs.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Hey Brazilgun, one airline at a time man. Big differences, JA is far from being JO. I truly suspect JO is gonna reap what he has sown` in his next round of negotiations. I dont think he's gonna like it either. Skywest pilots can remain on good terms with Mgmt and still have a union if they want.

As far as Hellonewman goes- I hear Go-Jet is hiring. Why don't you go over there and get YOUR quick upgrade. Then YOU can try to move on to a major where YOU will gladly join ALPA and be come one of their biggest advocates. YOU know YOU'LL do it. It's really easy to see your kind coming man- It's all about YOU isn't it?

 

[VeeOne]

Any of the "other airlines" ALPA pilots here, tell me something:
Why does ALPA care so much for SKYW? Why do they want ALPA here? Is it because we need a better contract? Is it because we need better quality of life?
Somebody posted that PBS is giving you 6 on 2 off? Show me how many lines are 6 on 2 off. Plus, what are you bidding? If they are bidding for "max flight/block hours" they are getting what they are asking for. I came from MESA( an ALPA carrier for those that don't know). 10 year captains could hold a line at the most junior base (IAD), but only 6 on 2 off. That's 10 years a ALPA carrier. What has ALPA done for them? NOTHING!
Don't give me that crap that ALPA is trying to come over here because they care for our quality of life.
I said it once and I will say it again. If they care that much, spend their time and efforts on those airlines that they already represent and THEN come talk to us.
Is because they want us to be "part of the brotherhood"? To be united together? How come I don't see an ALPA drive @ UPS? @ SWA? Are they not good enough to be part of the "brotherhood"?:angryfire

Here's one for ya- ALPA contributes greatly to US policy in regards to air travel and politics- as do many of the other unions at SWA, UPS, AA....... If it weren't for ALPA, Aeromexico would be bouncing around inside the US, undercutting every American airfare, and paying it's pilots pennies.....

How about we all stand togeather to get things done across the board, at ALL carriers. For some reason you are thinking ALPA is a menacing enemy that is there to rape and pillage- simply not true. Honestly, I highly recommend reading "Flying the Line", it should clue you in to what your bretheren have fought hard for over the past years, and what we can expect in years to come.

 

[Ski Bum]

All I hear is “what has ALPA done for me” / “what has ALPA done for other airlines”…instead, to echo an often quoted President… “what can I do for ALPA?” ALPA is a professional organization that promotes the airline pilots’ viewpoint to airline managements, to the general public and to our elected officials in DC. It is an organization made up of primarily volunteers dedicated to safety, raising the standards of OUR lives, and pay industry-wide. ALPA is involved in lawmaking, aeromedical issues, development of aircraft, and in each of our lives to a certain extent whether we are ALPA or not.
As a pilot who has been furloughed from strong union carrier and now finds themselves at a non-union shop, I can say that I hope ALPA succeeds in their goals of unifying the PROFESSION and not caving in to the “what has ALPA done for me” selfishness.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Well said skibum- I've used JFk's quote in this argument before as well.

 

[ifly34]

[quote from fins]

The SkyWest pilots have not seen the local benefits of ALPA and just because you are ALPA doesn't mean it is a hostile work environment. JetExpress seems to have a good relationship with management and they are working together to do some interesting things. It seems FedEx guys are pretty happy and even the most militant arm of ALPA, Delta pilots, are happy(ier) these days.

You are right. Just because you have ALPA doesn't mean there is a hostile working environment. But, the original reason unions exist (including ALPA) was to combat hostile working environments. That is why you got a union. Not hostile, no need for union.

Yes ExressJet has a good relationship, but from what I understand it wasn't always that way.

Please don't compare anything (good or bad) between any mainline/major and the regionals. It is an apples to oranges comparison and I think the problem at hand. I don't think ALPA can or has fairly represented the regional airlines. It is too often that the regional is pitted against the mainline. It is like going to court using the same attorney the other side has.

In the history of our profession there have always been pilots like Hello Newman. The Air Mail pilots used to suffer a mortality rate which once reached 80%. When 10 other more experienced pilots determined a flight was too risky - there was a Hello Newman willing to launch. Today there is always a Hello Newman who is eager to run over and try to undercut a pilot who has negotiated a raise, or better working conditions. Hello Newman is simply out for himself.

Always has been and always will be. ALPA hasn't been able to anything about it. What is your point?

To want to belong to ALPA is to want something more for your profession. To want to work with other professionals to raise the standards in your industry.

Then why is everyone selling ALPA by saying it can take care of you if you have an accident, get fired, lose your medical, fail a PC, etc. Those all seem to be very me, me, me. Make up your minds. Is ALPA here to help the profession or the individual?

Today we face a crisis in the United States. US airlines are understaffed and working conditions at airlines in China, India and the Arabian desert are better jobs than flying in the nation that invented powered flight. This is a crisis brought about by alter ego replacement flying which now makes up as much as 49% of some major carrier's block hours. The only way to face this problem and make for a more stable future is to come together in such a way that a pilot's concessionary pay is not the factor which decides which airlines prosper and which airlines fail.

Yes, understaffed. Meaning supply and demand will take care of a lot of pay and QOL issues at airlines. And I'm sure ALPA will be happy to say it was only because of them.

And the pilots at the majors have found a way to control what happens at the airlines that fly the 49%. Through ALPA national. It doesn't matter what deal/agreement/contract that your local MEC makes (even if 100% of the pilots and management agree to it), if it is not signed by national, it won't go into effect.

We can not afford to leave part of this profession behind. With 49% of the mainline flying having been put out to bid there are fewer mainline jobs for us to "escape" to. With no brand, our leased airplanes can be transferred as fast as new, cheap, replacement labor can be trained.

Leaving the regionals behind at the expense of the majors is what using the same union for representation is what this is all about.

ALPA is the only effective way to coordinate a response amongst pilot groups.

My opinion, ALPA has not been that effective with this.

Is ALPA perfect, no. But is there a better solution to the Hello Newman factor? The way I see it, ALPA is the only way to work together to raise our profession.

ALPA has been around for a long time. We still have these issues. What does that say about ALPAs effectiveness?

 

[Brazilgun]

Skywest pilots can remain on good terms with Mgmt and still have a union if they want.

I hope you're correct. I don't think that will be the case though. As soon as we put a UNION here I believe mgmt will change the way they deal with the pilot group.