Skywest..ALPA?

[Positive Rate]

So I m trying to figure out if I want ALPA on board with us......

Currently on the fence.....I don't want to make a rash decision.

If we go ALPA....Pros & Cons?...What are some senarios? Good & Bad?

If we stay no Union....Pros & Cons?...What are some senarios? Good & Bad?

Does ALPA have the power they once had? Will they have it again? It used to be when one airline went on strike another would too.....What happend to the power of numbers?

Any other words of wisdom? As long as its not flame.......I don't want to have to call you a flamer,....flamer.

 

[goahead]

No help here I just wanted to be the second post on this thread.....

 

[Troutbait]

Why would you go ALPA? I don't wish to enrage others, but what has ALPA done ? It has its time years ago, but now it is a business. They want your 2% and they will feed you as much union koolaid as they can to get you on board. I have talked to some Skywest pilots who want ALPA, and you know, their arguements are quite silly. 1. They want protection from the company. Solution, just don't be the person the company wants to fire. I am sure that SKW won't fire you just cause. Now I get told the stories where they think people got fired just cause, but you know, I am sure the person who got fired isn't telling the whole story. 2. They want a contract. Ok, well you will only get a contract if the "company will get you one". Look at all the others who are fighting for a contract. They are ALPA and they don't have a contract either. ASA pilots are paying 2% of their pay for 6 years or so and haven't had a contract. Honestly, is life at your company really that bad? 3. Some want a union just because other airlines are union. That is just silly. Not worth polarizing your relationship with management. Now I hear that ASA pilots really want SKW to go union. I am not dissing them, but why would they? Well, they would have a much easier time merging pilot seniority with your if you do. A smart move for them. They are alot more senior then alot of people at SKW. ALPA will get you and then move on to another airline. You would become like the rest of us and I don't think that is what you want. ALPA is too big to care about you. Some will say, but now the majority of ALPA is the regionals. So...we also make a lot less then our big brothers. Some say that there will be no conflict of interest between the big boy and yourselves. Yeah right. Why do you think that American and Eagle are two different unions. ALPA told Eagle pilots to go with ALPA because there would be a conflict of interest if Eagle went APA . Now they tell you there won't be. Right. I could go on and on, but bottom line, look around. Express Jet is a good company with a good contract, but look where it got them. I have a lot of friend there too. That contract can't last. I am sorry, I hope for them it does. If you enjoy life there, then stay non-ALPA. I hope if you do go union, you get yourselves an inhouse union. Then it would be SKW pilots representing SKW needs.

 

[HelloNewman]

So I m trying to figure out if I want ALPA on board with us......

Currently on the fence.....

If we go ALPA....What are some senarios? Good and Bad?

If we stay no Union....What are some senarios? Good and Bad?

Any other words of wisdom? As long as its not flame.......

All you have to do is read the March 15 letter from ALPO to SkyWest/BH. They set a very hostile tone. They also said "on behalf of SkyWest pilots". They do not represent us yet and therefore can not talk on behalf of us. Not nearly all the pilots want ALPAs grubbly little hands in our V-Files, getting our personal info, etc.

They also said "Your response will surely affect our future labor relations". Basically they are already making outrageous demands and then claiming the company isn't playing fair. Some of the things listed in the letter are required by the RLA but not nearly all of them. Literature is already being passed out, OC members already post info on both company Bulletin Boards. No one has been fired due to their union supporter status.

These guys are simply outrageous. This letter certainly sets the tone that if ALPA comes in it will automatically turn into a hostile work environment. News flash OC members you don't speak for us yet so until then please stop pretending to speak on behalf of all SkyWest pilots. If we go union you also give the company less flexibility, spend 2% of your check every year, hostile pilot/management negotiations, no guarantee of QOL/Wage increases at all.

If we stay non union we save part of our checks, we continute to have the ability to be flexible in a competitive environment, we can continue to wait to see what other airlines get wage wise then increase our wages to that level. We can also not have to worry about sacrificing our jobs in a strike, keep our good pay/QOL. Remember the members of the OC tend to be quite hostile individuals. Do you really want a bunch of chest thuimping maniacs representing you? The "burn the house down" mentality led to nothing but paycuts and broken homes. Thinking in a realistic/calm/logical manner is the way to go. Slow and steady wins the race. Burning down the house is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Burning down the house to get too much money gets you ahead in the race but you end up losing the race and taking paycuts anyway. The non union way is the best way, slow and steady to win the race. We can also simply wait for other airlines to get raises then match what they get.

When you look at all these factors from a logical perspective you see that we still are one of the best regionals to work for. We do not need a union and can simply wait for other airlines to get a raise then match what they get. Slow and steady always wins the race. Getting ALPA will begin the slow death of SkyWest airlines. We may make short term gains but in the long run it will be the end of SkyWest as we know it.

 

[John Pennekamp]

So I m trying to figure out if I want ALPA on board with us......

Currently on the fence.....I don't want to make a rash decision.

If we go ALPA....Pros & Cons?...What are some senarios? Good & Bad?

If we stay no Union....Pros & Cons?...What are some senarios? Good & Bad?

Does ALPA have the power they once had? Will they have it again? It used to be when one airline went on strike another would too.....What happend to the power of numbers?

Any other words of wisdom? As long as its not flame.......I don't want to have to call you a flamer,....flamer.

Why start another thread, sure to go 15 pages and rehash the same asinine arguments over and over?

USE THE SEARCH FEATURE!!! SEARCH "SKYWEST ALPA"!

 

[MYFpilot]

So I m trying to figure out if I want ALPA on board with us......

Currently on the fence.....I don't want to make a rash decision.

If we go ALPA....Pros & Cons?...What are some senarios? Good & Bad?

If we stay no Union....Pros & Cons?...What are some senarios? Good & Bad?

Does ALPA have the power they once had? Will they have it again? It used to be when one airline went on strike another would too.....What happend to the power of numbers?

Any other words of wisdom? As long as its not flame.......I don't want to have to call you a flamer,....flamer.

Have you visited http://www.skywestalpa.org ? Many, of your questions may be answered in the "Ask the Organizing Committee" section.

Here's a few thoughts to ponder, I never like what if's, but...

If you were involved in an accident or an incident would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

If you had issues with your medical would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

If you busted a checkride or PC would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

If the current management personnel at SkyWest were to change (actually happening as we speak) would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

If a crewmember or passenger injured themselves onboard your aircraft would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

If we were to merge seniority lists with ASA would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

SAPA elections have a 20% voter turnout. Who would better able to unify the SkyWest pilot group ALPA or SAPA?

Do you like working 5 and 6 days in a row, with only two days off in between, it happens every month with PBS to junior and senior crewmembers alike. Who would be better suited to address scheduling issues, ALPA or SAPA?

I hate paying 150 bucks a month for car and homeowners insurance, but what if?

How much is your ATP or Commercial certificate worth to you? ALPA may not get me a raise? but 2% is cheap career insurance.

Fly Safe!!

 

[AWACO]

The ASA / Skywest list will not merge, the company has stated that a number of times.

 

[GearBayOverheat]

News flash OC members you don't speak for us yet so until then please stop pretending to speak on behalf of all SkyWest pilots.

Pot...meet Kettle

 

[Tarzan]

The ASA / Skywest list will not merge, the company has stated that a number of times.

How many times have you heard companies say something and later it is the complete opposite? It is in the company's interest to have two separate lists because having 4000 ticked off pilots is a bit more difficult than 1800.

 

[Erlanger]

Well ASA is ALPA and owned now by Skywest, Inc. and they haven't been able to accomplish much in their negotiations, so do you think that an ALPA Skywest will do any better? Things are only going to get worst for ASA dealings with Skywest, Inc.

 

[cwebster2]

2. They want a contract. Ok, well you will only get a contract if the "company will get you one". Look at all the others who are fighting for a contract. They are ALPA and they don't have a contract either.

the difficulty of getting a contract will depend on your MEC, NC and management. If your managent is so good about looking after you (since you dont need a union, i assume this is true) then a contract shouldnt take long to get settled. Granted we at expressjet didnt go section 6 but opted for an extension, and we have a few grievences (and we won the main cabin door pay), but not every company is prone to 6+ year negotiations.

 

[Erlanger]

It's a minority of Skywest pilots here (a very small amount) that wants to be ALPA; mainly so they could say and feel part of the brotherhood. It's funny how there is more of you that have never worked at Skywest or know anything about the work enviroment here that want to see ALPA here. Why don't you all just mind your own house and stop worrying about us. I guess misery loves company, hey!

 

[~~~^~~~]

The SkyWest pilots have not seen the local benefits of ALPA and just because you are ALPA doesn't mean it is a hostile work environment. JetExpress seems to have a good relationship with management and they are working together to do some interesting things. It seems FedEx guys are pretty happy and even the most militant arm of ALPA, Delta pilots, are happy(ier) these days.

In the history of our profession there have always been pilots like Hello Newman. The Air Mail pilots used to suffer a mortality rate which once reached 80%. When 10 other more experienced pilots determined a flight was too risky - there was a Hello Newman willing to launch. Today there is always a Hello Newman who is eager to run over and try to undercut a pilot who has negotiated a raise, or better working conditions. Hello Newman is simply out for himself.

To want to belong to ALPA is to want something more for your profession. To want to work with other professionals to raise the standards in your industry.

Today we face a crisis in the United States. US airlines are understaffed and working conditions at airlines in China, India and the Arabian desert are better jobs than flying in the nation that invented powered flight. This is a crisis brought about by alter ego replacement flying which now makes up as much as 49% of some major carrier's block hours. The only way to face this problem and make for a more stable future is to come together in such a way that a pilot's concessionary pay is not the factor which decides which airlines prosper and which airlines fail.

We can not afford to leave part of this profession behind. With 49% of the mainline flying having been put out to bid there are fewer mainline jobs for us to "escape" to. With no brand, our leased airplanes can be transferred as fast as new, cheap, replacement labor can be trained.

ALPA is the only effective way to coordinate a response amongst pilot groups.

Is ALPA perfect, no. But is there a better solution to the Hello Newman factor? The way I see it, ALPA is the only way to work together to raise our profession.

 

[flylowman]

What Fins said is right on the dot. Look at this industry. I am a captain at an airline, pay a morgage on a 128k home, no new car, live conservativly, and still have to worry about spending the money to take my wife out to dinner and a movie. This industry sucks. Do you know why. Management, ours and yours have ploted us aginst each other, and it works. Every pilot in the U.S. has a debt of gratatude to pay to ALPA for their past victorys. What do you think it would be like today if not for ALPA.

Quote Form Newman
If we stay non union we save part of our checks, we continute to have the ability to be flexible in a competitive environment, we can continue to wait to see what other airlines get wage wise then increase our wages to that level.

Dude, that other airline is probably ALPA.

 

[Gnarloooo]

Well said Fin.

 

[Skaff]

SAPA elections have a 20% voter turnout. Who would better able to unify the SkyWest pilot group ALPA or SAPA?

If I remember right, the last union drive at Skywest had about a 30% turnout. The numbers historically are about the same. Too many apethetic pilots. Things will never change.

 

[MYFpilot]

The SkyWest pilots have not seen the local benefits of ALPA and just because you are ALPA doesn't mean it is a hostile work environment. JetExpress seems to have a good relationship with management and they are working together to do some interesting things. It seems FedEx guys are pretty happy and even the most militant arm of ALPA, Delta pilots, are happy(ier) these days.

In the history of our profession there have always been pilots like Hello Newman. The Air Mail pilots used to suffer a mortality rate which once reached 80%. When 10 other more experienced pilots determined a flight was too risky - there was a Hello Newman willing to launch. Today there is always a Hello Newman who is eager to run over and try to undercut a pilot who has negotiated a raise, or better working conditions. Hello Newman is simply out for himself.

To want to belong to ALPA is to want something more for your profession. To want to work with other professionals to raise the standards in your industry.

Today we face a crisis in the United States. US airlines are understaffed and working conditions at airlines in China, India and the Arabian desert are better jobs than flying in the nation that invented powered flight. This is a crisis brought about by alter ego replacement flying which now makes up as much as 49% of some major carrier's block hours. The only way to face this problem and make for a more stable future is to come together in such a way that a pilot's concessionary pay is not the factor which decides which airlines prosper and which airlines fail.

We can not afford to leave part of this profession behind. With 49% of the mainline flying having been put out to bid there are fewer mainline jobs for us to "escape" to. With no brand, our leased airplanes can be transferred as fast as new, cheap, replacement labor can be trained.

ALPA is the only effective way to coordinate a response amongst pilot groups.

Is ALPA perfect, no. But is there a better solution to the Hello Newman factor? The way I see it, ALPA is the only way to work together to raise our profession.

EXCELLENT POST!! ... and so far 55% of the SkyWest pilot group feels the exact same way

 

[stlflyguy]

Ask the ALPA reps what will happen if Midwest and AirTran merge. Listen to their response...and then ask them what went wrong with TWA and American.

I agree that ALPA has done some fine work. I just don't think that they represent EACH airline fairly and they have a propensity to allow politics (internal) to skew what their first and foremost priorities should be: representing the membership with the voracity of a hungry Pitbull in a butcher shop.

stlflyguy

 

[PBRstreetgang]

The SkyWest pilots have not seen the local benefits of ALPA and just because you are ALPA doesn't mean it is a hostile work environment. JetExpress seems to have a good relationship with management and they are working together to do some interesting things. It seems FedEx guys are pretty happy and even the most militant arm of ALPA, Delta pilots, are happy(ier) these days.

In the history of our profession there have always been pilots like Hello Newman. The Air Mail pilots used to suffer a mortality rate which once reached 80%. When 10 other more experienced pilots determined a flight was too risky - there was a Hello Newman willing to launch. Today there is always a Hello Newman who is eager to run over and try to undercut a pilot who has negotiated a raise, or better working conditions. Hello Newman is simply out for himself.

To want to belong to ALPA is to want something more for your profession. To want to work with other professionals to raise the standards in your industry.

Today we face a crisis in the United States. US airlines are understaffed and working conditions at airlines in China, India and the Arabian desert are better jobs than flying in the nation that invented powered flight. This is a crisis brought about by alter ego replacement flying which now makes up as much as 49% of some major carrier's block hours. The only way to face this problem and make for a more stable future is to come together in such a way that a pilot's concessionary pay is not the factor which decides which airlines prosper and which airlines fail.

We can not afford to leave part of this profession behind. With 49% of the mainline flying having been put out to bid there are fewer mainline jobs for us to "escape" to. With no brand, our leased airplanes can be transferred as fast as new, cheap, replacement labor can be trained.

ALPA is the only effective way to coordinate a response amongst pilot groups.

Is ALPA perfect, no. But is there a better solution to the Hello Newman factor? The way I see it, ALPA is the only way to work together to raise our profession.

Thank you,
After 8 years and numerous "hello newwoman"s, all of which come then go, are only out for themselves. They are the same $hitheads who leave 1/2 bottles of water in the cockpit, old releases, cheesey poof crumbs and jizz stains all over the cockpit from their constant jacking off, from their chronic SJS symptoms. Oh yes "hellonewwoman", eaaat $hit!
PBR

 

[fried chickens]

Have you visited http://www.skywestalpa.org ? Many, of your questions may be answered in the "Ask the Organizing Committee" section.

Here's a few thoughts to ponder, I never like what if's, but...

If you were involved in an accident or an incident would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

If you had issues with your medical would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

If you busted a checkride or PC would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

If the current management personnel at SkyWest were to change (actually happening as we speak) would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

If a crewmember or passenger injured themselves onboard your aircraft would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

If we were to merge seniority lists with ASA would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

SAPA elections have a 20% voter turnout. Who would better able to unify the SkyWest pilot group ALPA or SAPA?


Fly Safe!!

If a ALPA is passed at SkyWest, I think it will barely pass. If SAPA elections are only getting 20%, what makes you think turnout would be any higher? Especially when so many don't want ALPA.