SkyWest ALPA

[yellowfever]

I have a feeling there will be a few more ALPA supporters at SkyWest once PBS Jacks up enough peoples schedules. Maybe they will realize that it wasn't implemented for our quality of life!

 

[ya buoy]

alright truckdriver, yes you have a wicked good contract but....

You are a minority in the regional ALPA ranks.
According to many of your own this contract will have to be revised in order to secure current and future contracts.


I personally believe management is benefiting more from PBS than we are, but again most of the loudest complaints come from pilots that refuse to REALLY learn the software and how it works. ME INCLUDED. Shucks, if your senior and you followed the above advice, PBS is the cats meow, no debate, you can build your own line.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Megaidot....go back to sleep! No one wants to hear any of your crap. If ALPA was bad at your regional, then you only have you and the other volunteers to blame for it!

Keep up the drive skywst folks!! I will be happy to see them voted in THIS TIME!!

Um, first off....we didn't have ALPA at my regional. Secondly, have you ever worked anywhere else? Because you obviously don't realize that the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If ALPA is not on the property AND Skywest and ASA merge, the merger could be brutal. Similiar to AMR/TWA. Then again that may be good for the Skywest guys if only ASA is ALPA.

As far as the ALPA bashing.......

So far there has been only rethoric. There are two reasons:

1. A majority of pilots, including ALPA members, do not understand how the organization functions. Thus they have expectations that are not realistic. When asked for solutions to the current dilema the majority display their misinformation and ignorance.

2. We are in the worst situation an Air Line Pilot can find him/herself. A White House Admin that does not support Air Line Pilots and a management culture that only cares about dollars.

Now.... how is that ALPA's fault? Not to worry- if and when the good times return none of this will be relevant.

Skywest pilots, When you educate yourself on ALPA, get both sides of the discussion. However, when the clown pilots expose themselves as ignorant and misinformed, combined with thier unfounded hate, excuse yourself. If you are considering ALPA and its 1.95%, then what is $5 bucks for a book?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0960970800/qid=1143162979/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/103-8859630-6482262?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

Those who don't read are just as bad as those who can't.

 

[Ben Dover]

As far as the ALPA bashing.......

So far there has been only rethoric. There are two reasons:

1. A majority of pilots, including ALPA members, do not understand how the organization functions. Thus they have expectations that are not realistic. When asked for solutions to the current dilema the majority display their misinformation and ignorance.

2. We are in the worst situation an Air Line Pilot can find him/herself. A White House Admin that does not support Air Line Pilots and a management culture that only cares about dollars.

Now.... how is that ALPA's fault? Not to worry- if and when the good times return none of this will be relevant.

The great thing about taking responsibility for failure, is you then become empowered to be different (better) in the future. If none of this is ALPA's fault, then ALPA is just a powerless victim. Why would anyone want to align themselves with an organization that is powerless and cannot affect change? You really can't have it both ways.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The great thing about taking responsibility for failure, is you then become empowered to be different (better) in the future. If none of this is ALPA's fault, then ALPA is just a powerless victim. Why would anyone want to align themselves with an organization that is powerless and cannot affect change? You really can't have it both ways.

Has ALPA failed because you say so? If not you then who? Recall in my previous post that many pilots have expectations that are not realistic. ALPA does not control growth, a critical component to career advancement. Also recall that most ALPA criticism is anecdotal. Yet you failed to address both expectations and anecdotes.

I am going to play the HOW card.

How is ALPA just a powerless victim.

If ALPA or pilot representation did not exist, then would pilots in this current environement done better? How would the wage and work rule cuts have gone down at AMR, UAL, USAIR, DAL, etc if management had free reign to impose at will. Keep in mind, these pilot groups have voted on concessionary agreements!

 

[sstearns2]

....

How does not voting in ALPA guarantee not taking a paycut?

Face it, if SkyWest wants a 10% paycut tomorrow for you guys, there's not a thing you can do about it except for quit. If they want a 10% paycut for ASA guys, they have to contend with our union. Our union has already said that they are not going to accept a concessionary contract.

Well, no. If they, in theory, gave ASA a 10% pay cut nothing would happen. The union would scream bloody murder, as they should, but nothing would change. The union would then file a lawsuit, five or six months later they would have a day in court. If the company worked it right they could stretch the process out for a long time. The union would eventually win, eventually, but what if the judge did not require the company to make back pay? A union is not the omnificent thing you make it out to be.

A union gives you a basis to sue and the right to strike. I believe if the company gave the Skywest pilots a 10% pay cut the pilots would collectively pay a lawyer to sue and it would play out much the same. As a side note, a year or so ago a court recognized our F/A's agreement as a legally binding contract during the course of an emplyment lawsuit.

Scott

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

A union gives you a basis to sue and the right to strike. I believe if the company gave the Skywest pilots a 10% pay cut the pilots would collectively pay a lawyer to sue and it would play out much the same. As a side note, a year or so ago a court recognized our F/A's agreement as a legally binding contract during the course of an emplyment lawsuit.

Scott

I disagree. The skywest pilots have no legal basis to sue, unless they have a binding agreement (or do they?) via the CFR or state law. Whereas the ASA pilots have a CBA via the RLA.

Then again I am not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn.

 

[Truckdriver]

It's funny how everyone talks about the 1.95% that ALPA takes to represent you. If you have an in-house union or IBT, they will also take money to represent you. I'm not sure what IBT takes, but I'll be it isn't much less than 1.5% and an in-house union would probably take the same. When it comes time to negotiate a contract, an in-house union won't open up the "war chest" because they won't have one. IBT probably won't give unrestricted access to millions of dollars to a regional airline. And neither of them have professional full-time aviation attorneys who have worked in the industry for many many years. Throw in all of that along with ALPA aeromedical and all of the group insurance plans ALPA offers and ALPA kicks any unions a$$ when it comes to representing pilots. I wouldn't let the 1.95% scare you out of voting in ALPA because 1.95% to ALPA is a far better deal than even 1.0% to an in-house union or IBT. If the SKYW guys educate themselves and look past the vocal minority, they will vote in ALPA.

 

[Adler3]

Regardless of which way you guys go, remember the Union is only the avenue; you will get whatever your own guys/gals/volunteers work for. ALPA has been awesome for some carriers, abysmal for others simply because it is the union members at the carrier that determine how much it can do for them. That is certainly the case at my airline. Personally, I absolutely abhor unions, but in the airline business, they're a necessity.

 

[sweptback]

Well, no. If they, in theory, gave ASA a 10% pay cut nothing would happen. The union would scream bloody murder, as they should, but nothing would change. The union would then file a lawsuit, five or six months later they would have a day in court. If the company worked it right they could stretch the process out for a long time. The union would eventually win, eventually, but what if the judge did not require the company to make back pay? A union is not the omnificent thing you make it out to be.

No, we have the Railway Labor Act on our side. The scenario that you laid out could never happen. For as many faults as the RLA has, the company can't just change our contract at will.

 

[sstearns2]

No, we have the Railway Labor Act on our side. The scenario that you laid out could never happen. For as many faults as the RLA has, the company can't just change our contract at will.

So, what happens when the checks start coming in 10% short? Does the FBI storm the place and force them to write new checks? Do you think Bush is going to spend any 'political capitol' to hold their feet to the fire? No, ALPA would file a lawsuit. The RLA states that it's illegal, but that doesn't stop it from happening. The RLA just gives you a basis for a lawsuit, which you'd win, but it would take a lot of time and money.

Scott

 

[sstearns2]

I disagree. The skywest pilots have no legal basis to sue, unless they have a binding agreement (or do they?) via the CFR or state law. Whereas the ASA pilots have a CBA via the RLA.

Then again I am not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn.

When some of the F/A's sued the company a couple years ago, the judge treated thier 'agreement' as legally binding. I don't see why the pilot 'agreement' would be any differnent in the eyes of that judge. It might depend on the judge in another case, but the precident is clear.

Scott

 

[Ben Dover]

ALPA does not control growth, a critical component to career advancement. Also recall that most ALPA criticism is anecdotal. Yet you failed to address both expectations and anecdotes.

I am going to play the HOW card.

How is ALPA just a powerless victim.

If ALPA or pilot representation did not exist, then would pilots in this current environement done better? How would the wage and work rule cuts have gone down at AMR, UAL, USAIR, DAL, etc if management had free reign to impose at will. Keep in mind, these pilot groups have voted on concessionary agreements!

Growth? Seems like ALPA has a thing or two to say about scope. And scope and growth go hand in hand.
Failed? ALPA failed to predict the impact of the RJ. A matter of pretty big consequence most would say. ALPA has failed to provide any leadership and vision in this changing industry. Atleast I haven't read anything in my ALPA magazine. All I read is blame on government, and blame on management.

How is ALPA powerless? By claiming victim status. Bad things, bad policy, bad managment keep making life hard for ALPA (or so it says). Boo hoo!! The neat thing about being a victim is nothing is your fault. The trouble is, it also means you are powerless to do anything about it. You're at the mercy of all those bullies who are victimizing you.

I'd love to support ALPA if I could see any leadership on the national level. I just don't see it. I don't hear any new ideas, any vision statments, any lets rally together and solve this problem. And I don't see any new brain power working on any of these problems, just the same old guys doing the same old things they've done since the late '70's. Times are a changin' but I don't see ALPA changin' with them.

 

[Crash Pad]

Hey skywest when you hear ASA guys telling you ALPA will help in a merge... who might they be looking out for?
Check the ALPA airline threads...
1. Schedule complaints
2. Pay complaints
3. management complaints
So yeah go ALPA you can then complain about all of the above and the 2% paycut.
I know pilots have one job in the world and that is complaining... ALPA will give you more to complain about and more channels to complain on.
GO ALPA, GO TEAMSTERS... Let me know when you get them on the property so I can start the first MANAGEMENT IS TRYING TO SCREW US AT SKYWEST thread.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Hey skywest when you hear ASA guys telling you ALPA will help in a merge... who might they be looking out for?

DUH?!?!?!?

 

[embdrvr]

I think the folks at SkyWest can figure this out without people trying to cram opinions down everyone's throats.

I for one will be watching what happens at Pinnacle and Mesaba to see how ALPA handles things. Will ALPA respect the principle of senioirity that they fought so hard for many years ago?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

When some of the F/A's sued the company a couple years ago, the judge treated thier 'agreement' as legally binding. I don't see why the pilot 'agreement' would be any differnent in the eyes of that judge. It might depend on the judge in another case, but the precident is clear.

Scott

Copy that, there may be precedence..... but me no lawyer...

 

[~~~^~~~]

As someone who has volunteered for Committee work within ALPA and who is familiar with the functioning of the union I have to say that I am hopeful that SkyWest merges the ASA operation (which is very unlikely) and well all the opportunity to vote ALPA off the property. ALPA has lost its last 4 representational votes, for good reason.

In my tenure at ASA, ALPA National has done everything possible to reduce the representation I recieve from the union. ALPA changed the constitution and bylaws to exclude acquired airlines like Comair from enjoying the benefits of the merger and fragmentation policy. ALPA jerrymandered the Executive Board so that airlines like FedEx and each major gets their own EVP, while all the regional carriers share a single, ineffective, Board Rep. All the funding for local operations comes from "contingency funds" which is used to keep your local representatives from straying from ALPA National's party line.

Look around the industry. ALPA has worked to establish jets for jobs programs to take Captain slots at "Regionals." ALPA has used our jobs for negotiating fodder and is currently arguing for cuts at small jet opeators to help offset the cuts at majors. At every level our rights are traded to benefit our major airline "brothers" who would just as well see our airlines disappear so they can swoop in and take jobs.

If you wonder why a merger and fragmentation policy is important - consider that that change in the Constitution more than any other factor began the race for the bottom - where we no must bid against eachother for flying.

The local ALPA volunteers are wonderful and ALPA National provides a good organizational structure, but, ALPA National is a dangerous predator - simply the tool of major airline pilots to take what you have, while restraining your local representatives from fighting to protect you.

EMBDRVR is correct to watch the rest of the industry. Did you know members of the Northwest MEC voted against Mesaba's strike benefits? How's that for support?

 

[John Pennekamp]

So, what happens when the checks start coming in 10% short? Does the FBI storm the place and force them to write new checks? Do you think Bush is going to spend any 'political capitol' to hold their feet to the fire? No, ALPA would file a lawsuit. The RLA states that it's illegal, but that doesn't stop it from happening. The RLA just gives you a basis for a lawsuit, which you'd win, but it would take a lot of time and money.

Scott

You are demonstrating your ignorance. The RLA is Federal Law and no contract can be changed outside of Section 6 negotiations. The courts MUST uphold the law, and they will as they have before in other "major disputes".

Here at ASA, if the pay checks came in 10% short, there would be grievances and back pay. Our ALPA contract at ASA requires all pay errors greater than $100 to be rectified within three business days. What do ya think you'd get at Skywest sin union if that happens? I know... 10% poorer.