SkyWest ALPA

[capt. megadeth]

Who's going to protect your life, your pay, your licence and your family?.

A lawyer you hire for your wrongful termination lawsuit.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Attention Skywest Pilots

Your consideration for ALPA has two (or more) facets.

The first is locally. If your current working conditions include

1. Fear and intimidation to include pilot pushing.
2. No (political) voice
3. Limited bargaining strength
4. Limited scope protection
5. Limited job protection
6. Limited say in safety issues

Then you may require representation. If you answered yes to three or more, it is time to get educated on a union.

Another local issue is your pay and work rules is based on Collective Bargaining Agreements faught hard for by union pilots. Your management constantly looks at these agreements to makes sure you are just right. However, you have no ability to know how much you can really earn at Skywest becuase you have no way to look at your companies books. You must take your managers word at face value.

The other is national issues. If you intend to stay at Skywest then perhaps ALPA is not for you. Your only achillies heel is Skywest security. The company fails then you are out. In that case when your eco dome collapses will you want ALPA preferred interviews? And most likely you will join an ALPA carrier. Why not already be a part of the organization. What are the chances of SkyWest lasting until you retire? AWAC is one of the oldest regionals around and they almost didn't make it. Regionals don't last forever...

Nonetheless here is the coup de grace.....

Everything that effects a Skywests pilots' job and carrier is determined on Captial Hill in WashDC. Are you heard? ALPA is the only organization thru its numbers to maintain a dialog with the senators and legislators. Not the APA, not SWAPA, not the IPA, not the NPA and not FPA. It is not becuase ALPA is wonderful or the best, it is simply because ALPA has the membership base and size to maintain a presence on CapHill. Most pilots do not even realize the value of this, and therefore take it for granted. The non ALPA pilots don't even have a clue.

In addition, SWAPA and the APA constantly purchase Economic and Financial Analysis data from ALPA.

Marion Blaksley recently praised ALPA for the safety work. ALPA's reputation amongts the policy makers and players in Wash DC is very good.

Place no value in superficial statements about ALPA both good and bad. If you aren't listening to fact based information that makes sense then tune it out and read a book on ALPA.

 

[storminpilot]

Nonetheless here is the coup de grace.....

Everything that effects a Skywests pilots' job and carrier is determined on Captial Hill in WashDC. Are you heard? ALPA is the only organization thru its numbers to maintain a dialog with the senators and legislators. Not the APA, not SWAPA, not the IPA, not the NPA and not FPA.

The above statement is not true. How about http://www.capapilots.org/ of which SWAPA, IPA, NPA, APA are members of to get their message out in DC?


Skywest pilots need to make their own decision on what is right for them and not listen to any of the rest of us.


http://www.capapilots.org/capa_history.html

The Coalition of Airline Pilots Associations is a trade association representing more than 22,000 pilots from five leading commercial air carriers. Since its birth in 1997, CAPA has committed itself to addressing issues of aviation safety, security and regulation that affect its members and the traveling public.

The Coalition can trace its roots to the spring of 1997 when, after years of informal cooperation, its five member unions came together in earnest to support American Airlines pilots as they went on strike. The unions joined their voices to urge Congress not to intervene in the dispute, helping prevent lawmakers from dictating the terms of a settlement.

Led by Captains Mike Cronin (APA) and Steve McPhail (SWAPA), CAPA officially came into existence that summer. Since then, the Coalition has garnered respect as a leading voice in aviation, working vigorously on behalf of passengers, flight crewmembers and the industry as a whole.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The above statement is not true. How about http://www.capapilots.org/ of which SWAPA, IPA, NPA, APA are members of to get their message out in DC?


Skywest pilots need to make their own decisions on what is right for them and not listen to any of the rest of us..

I stand.....informed and corrected. Good to know and good information. Thanks.

CAPA is the Pilot Assosiciations that aren't ALPA.

ALPA was formed in 1931. CAPA in 1997.

The labor union leadership of CAPA have realized what 90% of us don't. Everything happens on Captial Hill. The APA, SWAPA, IPA, teamsters, etc realized that they had limited voice or no voice in Washington. So they formed a way to do what ALPA has been doing for 75 years.

Sure would be nice if we all spoke with one voice. Nonetheless I support CAPA. If you don't give to ALPA-PAC then give to CAPA-PAC.

So, back to the discussion... The Skywest Pilots have a choice.. They can join ALPA and its legislative effectiveness or create an in house union and possibly join CAPA or keep the status quo....

 

[Ben Dover]

What do you suggest? Becuase I don't see any new ideas, any vision statements form you.

Rez, or should I call you Duane?,
My job it to fly airplanes, not lead ALPA. It's your job, Duane, to lead the union. But since you asked I'll give you a clue. Quit relying on your old pilot chonies, and start surrounding yourself with talented individuals. Either that, or just resign and let someone else provide some leadership.

 

[DB Cooper]

The choices are:
1) SAPA
2) nothing
3) IBT
4) in house
5) ALPA

ALPA surley has warts, but do a cost/benfit analysis on each choice and they win out. I'm not sure I'd make this choice on only one or two issues, though.

 

[Capi_Cafre']

50 years ago there were no RJ's or regional feed.

There were airliners, flown by pilots. Same as it is today, same as it ever was. When ALPA's movers and shakers decided to protect "what was theirs" instead of their profession, it all came tumbling down.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, or should I call you Duane?,
My job it to fly airplanes, not lead ALPA. It's your job, Duane, to lead the union. But since you asked I'll give you a clue. Quit relying on your old pilot chonies, and start surrounding yourself with talented individuals. Either that, or just resign and let someone else provide some leadership.

Yet, you fail to respond to the debate. More anecdotal and rethorical post. My signiture line, sir, is for you.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

There were airliners, flown by pilots. Same as it is today, same as it ever was. When ALPA's movers and shakers decided to protect "what was theirs" instead of their profession, it all came tumbling down.

Agreed..somewhat, but it might not be that simple.

Consider this...

When the regionals or commuters became the new thing at the legacy carriers, the proposal to ALPA might have gone done like this....

"In order to manage our cost we are adding another vendor to service our Brand." XYZ Commuter will fly 19seat turbo props for our Brand."

The ALPA pilots might have replied, that is our flying, we own it. To which management would've countered, "sure.. your pilots can quit mainline and fly there if they want."


The whole premise of starting another airline to serve mainline creates plenty of issues. If mainline pilots operated commuter airplanes from the begininnig, who would they work for? Mainline or the commuter? Who would be their supervisor? Picture a mainline pilot who works for mainline but flies a commuter aircraft. He/she is the only employee that doesn't work for the commuter. Will the FAA even allow a pilot who does work for the certificate holder to operate the aircraft? It could cause alot of discord.

Plenty of regional pilots think they got screwed when the mainline guys simply cut them off at the 50 seat jet line. Maybe.

It is interesting how, now, the mainline guys are moving the 50 seat line to 70 seat. And J4J and pref hiring are reactionary efforts....

Brand Scope has its place, but it still has problems. For example, with regionals that feed multiple carriers, how is a pilot aligned with a Brand? Does he just choose one? Maybe.

Mainline wants to pick and choose who gets to work for them, thus a simple flow thru isn't acceptable. It get more complex when multiple regionals feed different brands and the brand has multiple feeders. (USAIR). It is easier with one feed. (CAL)


Thus the issue is incredibly complex. For a pilot to point to ALPA and say "you guys sux", Says more about the pilot and his lack of understanding of the issues.

To all:
This is your career. Spend some time listening instead of talking. Get informed. No one is consciencously trying to screw another, and if they were could you be the bigger person?

ALPA is a resource not a service.

 

[John Pennekamp]

A lawyer you hire for your wrongful termination lawsuit.

Or one provided by your union that you don't have to pay for.

Here in Georgia, we are a "right to work" state, and it is extremely difficult to win a wrongful termination lawsuit. I pretty much has to be discrimination. A union grievance is the only way to get your job back. Don't know about Utah, but you might want to check.

 

[Going2Baja]

I sure haven't seen ALPA help any regionals recently, have you? Look into Teamsters. They sure look like they are kicking some a$$ in the fractional arena.

Good luck.

Baja.

BTW - here is a list of the pilots they cover:
ABX Air
Air Transport International (ATI)
Amerijet
Arrow Air
Centurion Air
Custom Air Transport
Express One
Great Lakes Aviation
Gulfstream International
Horizon Air
Kalitta Air
NetJets
North American Airlines
Shuttle America
Southeast Airlines
TransAir
United Express (Great Lakes)
U.S.A. 3000 Airlines
U.S. Airways (Chautauqua)
World Airways
Zantop International

 

[Gr82Aviate]

alright truckdriver, yes you have a wicked good contract but....

You are a minority in the regional ALPA ranks.
According to many of your own this contract will have to be revised in order to secure current and future contracts.


I personally believe management is benefiting more from PBS than we are, but again most of the loudest complaints come from pilots that refuse to REALLY learn the software and how it works. ME INCLUDED. Shucks, if your senior and you followed the above advice, PBS is the cats meow, no debate, you can build your own line.

NOT TRUE!! Shucks, I'm senior and I've read the PBS(pretty bad schedules)manual backwards and forwards and have gotten 5 to 6 less days off every month. At least the credit is also down between 15 and 20 hours...largely due to the pairings getting worse and worse.

 

[Crash Pad]

The first is locally. If your current working conditions include

1. Fear and intimidation to include pilot pushing.
2. No (political) voice
3. Limited bargaining strength
4. Limited scope protection
5. Limited job protection
6. Limited say in safety issues

Ok I think everyone on the regional forum with a union suffers from 2,3,4. 10 posts ago an ASA guy was saying he was reprimanded for a safety issue... that would be 6. So it looks like ALPA doesn't address any of these issues better than SKYW.
Hey SKYW go union. I have noticed here on the Flight Info there are few Skywest pilots and even fewer complaints. I bet that number skyrockets once you get a union.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I believe we should look at Brand scope, or even the next forward thinking idea. Problem is, I don't know what it is... perhaps another does...

ALPA talks about brand scope, then pursues an agenda that further divides the "brand" so flying can be given to the preferred pilots. Examples abound, most recently at Northwest where NAir, NStar, NWA70 and other plans have been either promoted, or negotiated, by ALPA to transfer flying to Northwest Pilots at yet another alter ego airline within the brand. Examples also abound at US Air where several alter ego competitors within the brand were created to provide jets for jobs tickets for the preferred pilots. ALPA's actions speak louder than their words.

The next forward thinking idea is actually a return to basics, where ALPA represents their pilots equally and where a strong national organization exists to keep predatory MEC's from doing just this sort of negotiating to benefit their pilots, while the rest of the profession suffers. Of course the sum effect of all of ALPA's representational failure is the "race for the bottom" that we see everywhere.

The RJDC is the only effort being made to restore the union. Others within ALPA might have the right idea, like brand scope, but as long as the real power is held by just one, or two MEC's, those MEC's will continue to do whatever they want (without restraint) and the rest of the profession can go to he11 as far as "ALPA" is concerned.

Bottom line is that unions are supposed to bring employees together - ALPA doesn't do that these days.

 

[737 Pylt]

The RJDC is the only effort being made to restore the union. Others within ALPA might have the right idea, like brand scope, but as long as the real power is held by just one, or two MEC's, those MEC's will continue to do whatever they want (without restraint) and the rest of the profession can go to he11 as far as "ALPA" is concerned.

No fins, just you and your girls of the rjdc can go there! Your idea of the rjdc is nothing more than extortion! You are tying to further your careers at the expense of your fellow pilots while trying to line your pockets with MY union dues! You are a disgrace to this industry, and the sooner this lame duck suit is thrown out with the rest of you scabs, the sooner this industry will be.

Bottom line is that unions are supposed to bring employees together - ALPA doesn't do that these days.

That's right, and your little lawsuit has further drawn the line between the pilot groups. I can't wait until someone posts a list of all you losers, so we can persue a counter suit to get back all the $$ you pukes have wasted of ALPA and to have you expelled!
737

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

ALPA talks about brand scope, then pursues an agenda that further divides the "brand" so flying can be given to the preferred pilots. Examples abound, most recently at Northwest where NAir, NStar, NWA70 and other plans have been either promoted, or negotiated, by ALPA to transfer flying to Northwest Pilots at yet another alter ego airline within the brand. Examples also abound at US Air where several alter ego competitors within the brand were created to provide jets for jobs tickets for the preferred pilots. ALPA's actions speak louder than their words.

The next forward thinking idea is actually a return to basics, where ALPA represents their pilots equally and where a strong national organization exists to keep predatory MEC's from doing just this sort of negotiating to benefit their pilots, while the rest of the profession suffers. Of course the sum effect of all of ALPA's representational failure is the "race for the bottom" that we see everywhere.

The RJDC is the only effort being made to restore the union. Others within ALPA might have the right idea, like brand scope, but as long as the real power is held by just one, or two MEC's, those MEC's will continue to do whatever they want (without restraint) and the rest of the profession can go to he11 as far as "ALPA" is concerned.

Bottom line is that unions are supposed to bring employees together - ALPA doesn't do that these days.

Fins,

your message is loud and clear and heard often.....

I say to you, that the issue has been raised...but HOW do you propose to get back to the basics... In addition, what exactly is the RJDC doing besides sueing.

ALPA's representational "race to the bottom" is the same structure that brought us UAL2000 and DAL2001. Seemed to work fine then. If you want to change the structure around, then all will be complaining when the boom and growth return, that thier pay is limited by the national structure. If the UAL guys return to super profitiablity why should thier negotiations be limited by another company that is doing poorly?

The problem is management runs thier agenda and all expect ALPA to counter free market forces (even Greenspan can't do that!) and reverse upper management decisions....

Air Line Pilots Do Not Run Airlines!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Ok I think everyone on the regional forum with a union suffers from 2,3,4. 10 posts ago an ASA guy was saying he was reprimanded for a safety issue... that would be 6. So it looks like ALPA doesn't address any of these issues better than SKYW.
Hey SKYW go union. I have noticed here on the Flight Info there are few Skywest pilots and even fewer complaints. I bet that number skyrockets once you get a union.

Well, the next level of understanding is unions are resources not services.

As far as regional pilots, when you got SJS or you think you are going to a better place ones current environement doesn't seem matter...

At the regional level I've seen ALPA keep management in check.

Keep in mind, SKYW management knows where the line is.... and they are constantly checking that against the rest of the unionized industry... IOW SKYW needs unions to keep unions at bay.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Lifted from a thread posted by another Delta pilot is the following recap of what ALPA, with the full support of Duane Woerth wants at NWA.

Post-Rejection Objectives
· Obtain Credit for the $170M/Year in Revenue-Enhancing Concessions
o Includes Credit for SJet Operation and Other Non-Credited
Concessions
· Eliminate and/or Improve the Most Objectionable Sections of
Rejected TA
o Scope
§ Improve Larger SJ (77-110-seat) to Smaller SJ (51-76-seat) Ratio
§ Establish an Effective Mainline Floor to Prevent Erosion of
Flying
§ Transfer Pilot Longevity Credit with Flow Up/Flow Down to SJet
o Pay

Note the following:

• Small Jet flying is considered a concession to be offset with other items negotiated for the mainline pilots. Applied to us, a penalty should be negotiated against the mainline carrier for every hour flown by a Skywest pilot.
• ALPA wants the creation of yet another alter ego, now called SJet
• At SJet Northwest pilots have super senioirty over the other pilots hired.
• ALPA wants to limit smaller jet flying

Also note that if you are a small jet pilot who believes that you should have a voice to negotiate your pay and working conditions with your employer the nice guys at Delta like our friend 737Pylt will call you a "scab," hope that they could some how sue you, or in other ways try to harm you for your work trying to build a union that brings employees together to bargain collectively with their employers.

Unfortunately folks like 737Pylt have absolute control within ALPA. There is no process in place to restrain them. If you become ALPA, you will have the pleasure of being represented according to 737Pylt's whims.

One wonders how the Mesaba guys feel about their friends at Northwest who have voted against providing strike benefits to Mesaba pilots, while pushing for an alter ego airline to perform the flying which was flown by Mesaba.

The real reason why 737Pylt and General Lee hate the RJDC with such passion is that the RJDC has been effective in restraining much of the predatory bargaining that has gone on at US Air and Northwest.

The Skywest pilots have been unwitting beneficiaries, but with the ASA purchase you now are getting an introduction to playing in the sandbox with the 900 pound gorilla going by the handle of "DALPA."

 

[Magneto]

I will say this. I signed up for information from ALPA about 6 months ago. I am seriously considering taking my name off that list. I don't believe ALPA is the answer for us here at SkyWest. And I think the organizing commitee (sp?) will have a rude awakening when it comes time to vote. I also know I'm not the only one who feels this way.

I am still not convinced ALPA is worth 2% of my pay.

 

[737 Pylt]

Unfortunately folks like 737Pylt have absolute control within ALPA. There is no process in place to restrain them. If you become ALPA, you will have the pleasure of being represented according to 737Pylt's whims.

You LIE so much, you must be in management training. If you truly believe that, then you have no business piloting an aircraft!

One wonders how the Mesaba guys feel about their friends at Northwest who have voted against providing strike benefits to Mesaba pilots, while pushing for an alter ego airline to perform the flying which was flown by Mesaba.

Again liar, twist the truth. It was ONE person who voted against it!

The real reason why 737Pylt and General Lee hate the RJDC with such passion is that the RJDC has been effective in restraining much of the predatory bargaining that has gone on at US Air and Northwest.

The real reason I hate you guys is that you are all liars (you have yet to tell the truth about anything) and SCABS! Actually, you're worse than scabs, at least scabs wait til you're out of work to do your flying!

The Skywest pilots have been unwitting beneficiaries, but with the ASA purchase you now are getting an introduction to playing in the sandbox with the 900 pound gorilla going by the handle of "DALPA."

And you wonder why your group is hated so much. Even regional pilots that you so called "represent," dispise you and your ilk! Let's face it, your group has NEVER told the truth about anything. Your suit is based upon GREED, plain and simple. People (and I use that term loosely) like you are just plain old "lazy" in this industry. Rather than work for it, you would rather just sue to get what is not yours! Your group has populated lies, and twisted facts that has done nothing but waste my unions hard worked for $$. We have a bigger fight, with management, and you group is nothing more than a flaring hemmoriod that pops up just when you think its safe to sit down. You wouldn't know how to tell the truth if it bit you on the nose, but we've grown to expect that from you. Your "pass benefits" thread is just another example of how you and your group LIES to try to get suckers to feel sorry for your pathetic cause. Our (DL's) scope is the most leniant in the industry, yet you pricks cry wolf! Keep up with your lies, if it makes you happy, so much better for you!
737
rant over