SkyWest ALPA

[sweptback]

Well, no. If they, in theory, gave ASA a 10% pay cut nothing would happen. The union would scream bloody murder, as they should, but nothing would change. The union would then file a lawsuit, five or six months later they would have a day in court. If the company worked it right they could stretch the process out for a long time. The union would eventually win, eventually, but what if the judge did not require the company to make back pay? A union is not the omnificent thing you make it out to be.

No, we have the Railway Labor Act on our side. The scenario that you laid out could never happen. For as many faults as the RLA has, the company can't just change our contract at will.

 

[sstearns2]

No, we have the Railway Labor Act on our side. The scenario that you laid out could never happen. For as many faults as the RLA has, the company can't just change our contract at will.

So, what happens when the checks start coming in 10% short? Does the FBI storm the place and force them to write new checks? Do you think Bush is going to spend any 'political capitol' to hold their feet to the fire? No, ALPA would file a lawsuit. The RLA states that it's illegal, but that doesn't stop it from happening. The RLA just gives you a basis for a lawsuit, which you'd win, but it would take a lot of time and money.

Scott

 

[sstearns2]

I disagree. The skywest pilots have no legal basis to sue, unless they have a binding agreement (or do they?) via the CFR or state law. Whereas the ASA pilots have a CBA via the RLA.

Then again I am not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn.

When some of the F/A's sued the company a couple years ago, the judge treated thier 'agreement' as legally binding. I don't see why the pilot 'agreement' would be any differnent in the eyes of that judge. It might depend on the judge in another case, but the precident is clear.

Scott

 

[Ben Dover]

ALPA does not control growth, a critical component to career advancement. Also recall that most ALPA criticism is anecdotal. Yet you failed to address both expectations and anecdotes.

I am going to play the HOW card.

How is ALPA just a powerless victim.

If ALPA or pilot representation did not exist, then would pilots in this current environement done better? How would the wage and work rule cuts have gone down at AMR, UAL, USAIR, DAL, etc if management had free reign to impose at will. Keep in mind, these pilot groups have voted on concessionary agreements!

Growth? Seems like ALPA has a thing or two to say about scope. And scope and growth go hand in hand.
Failed? ALPA failed to predict the impact of the RJ. A matter of pretty big consequence most would say. ALPA has failed to provide any leadership and vision in this changing industry. Atleast I haven't read anything in my ALPA magazine. All I read is blame on government, and blame on management.

How is ALPA powerless? By claiming victim status. Bad things, bad policy, bad managment keep making life hard for ALPA (or so it says). Boo hoo!! The neat thing about being a victim is nothing is your fault. The trouble is, it also means you are powerless to do anything about it. You're at the mercy of all those bullies who are victimizing you.

I'd love to support ALPA if I could see any leadership on the national level. I just don't see it. I don't hear any new ideas, any vision statments, any lets rally together and solve this problem. And I don't see any new brain power working on any of these problems, just the same old guys doing the same old things they've done since the late '70's. Times are a changin' but I don't see ALPA changin' with them.

 

[Crash Pad]

Hey skywest when you hear ASA guys telling you ALPA will help in a merge... who might they be looking out for?
Check the ALPA airline threads...
1. Schedule complaints
2. Pay complaints
3. management complaints
So yeah go ALPA you can then complain about all of the above and the 2% paycut.
I know pilots have one job in the world and that is complaining... ALPA will give you more to complain about and more channels to complain on.
GO ALPA, GO TEAMSTERS... Let me know when you get them on the property so I can start the first MANAGEMENT IS TRYING TO SCREW US AT SKYWEST thread.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Hey skywest when you hear ASA guys telling you ALPA will help in a merge... who might they be looking out for?

DUH?!?!?!?

 

[embdrvr]

I think the folks at SkyWest can figure this out without people trying to cram opinions down everyone's throats.

I for one will be watching what happens at Pinnacle and Mesaba to see how ALPA handles things. Will ALPA respect the principle of senioirity that they fought so hard for many years ago?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

When some of the F/A's sued the company a couple years ago, the judge treated thier 'agreement' as legally binding. I don't see why the pilot 'agreement' would be any differnent in the eyes of that judge. It might depend on the judge in another case, but the precident is clear.

Scott

Copy that, there may be precedence..... but me no lawyer...

 

[~~~^~~~]

As someone who has volunteered for Committee work within ALPA and who is familiar with the functioning of the union I have to say that I am hopeful that SkyWest merges the ASA operation (which is very unlikely) and well all the opportunity to vote ALPA off the property. ALPA has lost its last 4 representational votes, for good reason.

In my tenure at ASA, ALPA National has done everything possible to reduce the representation I recieve from the union. ALPA changed the constitution and bylaws to exclude acquired airlines like Comair from enjoying the benefits of the merger and fragmentation policy. ALPA jerrymandered the Executive Board so that airlines like FedEx and each major gets their own EVP, while all the regional carriers share a single, ineffective, Board Rep. All the funding for local operations comes from "contingency funds" which is used to keep your local representatives from straying from ALPA National's party line.

Look around the industry. ALPA has worked to establish jets for jobs programs to take Captain slots at "Regionals." ALPA has used our jobs for negotiating fodder and is currently arguing for cuts at small jet opeators to help offset the cuts at majors. At every level our rights are traded to benefit our major airline "brothers" who would just as well see our airlines disappear so they can swoop in and take jobs.

If you wonder why a merger and fragmentation policy is important - consider that that change in the Constitution more than any other factor began the race for the bottom - where we no must bid against eachother for flying.

The local ALPA volunteers are wonderful and ALPA National provides a good organizational structure, but, ALPA National is a dangerous predator - simply the tool of major airline pilots to take what you have, while restraining your local representatives from fighting to protect you.

EMBDRVR is correct to watch the rest of the industry. Did you know members of the Northwest MEC voted against Mesaba's strike benefits? How's that for support?

 

[John Pennekamp]

So, what happens when the checks start coming in 10% short? Does the FBI storm the place and force them to write new checks? Do you think Bush is going to spend any 'political capitol' to hold their feet to the fire? No, ALPA would file a lawsuit. The RLA states that it's illegal, but that doesn't stop it from happening. The RLA just gives you a basis for a lawsuit, which you'd win, but it would take a lot of time and money.

Scott

You are demonstrating your ignorance. The RLA is Federal Law and no contract can be changed outside of Section 6 negotiations. The courts MUST uphold the law, and they will as they have before in other "major disputes".

Here at ASA, if the pay checks came in 10% short, there would be grievances and back pay. Our ALPA contract at ASA requires all pay errors greater than $100 to be rectified within three business days. What do ya think you'd get at Skywest sin union if that happens? I know... 10% poorer.