SKYW CRJ2 in ATL?

[asayankee]

Congrats to the passionate employees of SkyWest for being 3rd on the DOT on-time arrival list for July, now on the downside, our sister carrier was at the bottom(18th) just ahead of Comair. What gives? On a side note, SkyWest, Inc August traffic rose 8.5%.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/DOT-releases-airline-delay-apf-3260885375.html?x=0&.v=1

With Delta being below industry average and Airtan being darn near the bottom, I'd say that flying out of ATL has something to do with that.... that's just my guess though

 

[Tarzan]

With Delta being below industry average and Airtan being darn near the bottom, I'd say that flying out of ATL has something to do with that.... that's just my guess though

You're way out of line, Mister. Don't come in here spewing facts while others are trying to put a bad face on this. What our monthly on time when we took out weather and ATC? Better than 90%?

 

[10nCLR]

With Delta being below industry average and Airtan being darn near the bottom, I'd say that flying out of ATL has something to do with that.... that's just my guess though

maybe, but um we fly out of SFO-usually a GDP, LAX, ORD and SLC. Anyway, But wait, what explains Comair's ranking.

 

[SLUF4]

maybe, but um we fly out of SFO-usually a GDP, LAX, ORD and SLC. Anyway, I believe DOT doesn't include wx and atc delays in this report. I could be wrong though, wouldn't be the 1st time.
But wait, what explains Comair's ranking.

yeah but your flying is all spread out over those places where ours is in one place mainly. Those aren't all usually delayed at the same time.

 

[asayankee]

maybe, but um we fly out of SFO-usually a GDP, LAX, ORD and SLC. Anyway, I believe DOT doesn't include wx and atc delays in this report. I could be wrong though, wouldn't be the 1st time.
But wait, what explains Comair's ranking.

It's not too hard to be on time when you plan all your flights at mach .64!

 

[10nCLR]

yeah but your flying is all spread out over those places where ours is in one place mainly. Those aren't all usually delayed at the same time.

okay, but SFO GDP occurs almost everyday, every Brasilia flt usually gets delayed. Typical afternoon thunderstorms in Den and the front range and not including the rookie atc controllers in training. Then you have Ord-UAL union rampers and wx, one cell over the airfield, see ya- GDP for the rest of the day along with United stealing all of our good flow times. Slc-usually no issues, they basically keep Delta's ontime from being in the basement. Other than that I'm probably wrong about the exclusion of wx and atc, I'm thinking of our performance reward ontime statisitc.
Its hard to keep ontime when you have Delta working your gates in ATL.
Not trying to be negative on ASA. Just disappointed on the numbers on the ASA side for July. Thats all. Once the thunderstorm season subsides the numbers should improve.
What about Comair?

 

[CaribPilot]

okay, but SFO GDP occurs almost everyday, every Brasilia flt usually gets delayed. Typical afternoon thunderstorms in Den and the front range and not including the rookie atc controllers in training. Then you have Ord-UAL union rampers and wx, one cell over the airfield, see ya- GDP for the rest of the day along with United stealing all of our good flow times. Slc-usually no issues, they basically keep Delta's ontime from being in the basement. Other than that I'm probably wrong about the exclusion of wx and atc, I'm thinking of our performance reward ontime statisitc.
Its hard to keep ontime when you have Delta working your gates in ATL.
Not trying to be negative on ASA. Just disappointed on the numbers on the ASA side for July. Thats all. Once the thunderstorm season subsides the numbers should improve.
What about Comair?

Your an idiot and have NO idea what your talking about. San Franciso in terms of traffic movements is 24th and Denver is ranked 5th. Those two airports COMBINED still barely edge in front of Atlanta, neither of those airports comes close to sniffing the ass of atlanta when it comes to congestion.

 

[CaribPilot]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_busiest_airports_by_traffic_movementshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_busiest_airports_by_traffic_movements

 

[spudskier]

This has been said quite a bit lately, as well. Frankly, I gotta call BS on this line of thought. There are very few pilots at ASA, or other carriers, that can leave the airline industry and immediately find a job that pays them enough to maintain their accustomed lifestyle.

Just reality, folks. Also, this reality is part of why 5 day schedules are even a potential option in the arsenal of the collective management.

How many FOs do you know that have second jobs? Think about that for a second. How much do FOs make? How easy would it be to replace the income from the airline with another low-paying job. My 2nd job in particular pays more per hour than my job as an FO and they'd be happy to give me more hours.

5 day trips? Nuh uh, I'm out and I wouldn't take much of a hit on the income. I stay here because I have hope that things will improve and I'll eventually leave my current employer for slightly greener pastures as a pilot which is my profession of choice... I enjoy flying, I do NOT enjoy flying for my current employer.

 

[USCtrojan]

okay, but SFO GDP occurs almost everyday, every Brasilia flt usually gets delayed. Typical afternoon thunderstorms in Den and the front range and not including the rookie atc controllers in training. Then you have Ord-UAL union rampers and wx, one cell over the airfield, see ya- GDP for the rest of the day along with United stealing all of our good flow times. Slc-usually no issues, they basically keep Delta's ontime from being in the basement. Other than that I'm probably wrong about the exclusion of wx and atc, I'm thinking of our performance reward ontime statisitc.
Its hard to keep ontime when you have Delta working your gates in ATL.
Not trying to be negative on ASA. Just disappointed on the numbers on the ASA side for July. Thats all. Once the thunderstorm season subsides the numbers should improve.
What about Comair?

This is a common argument against ASA in ATL. Numbers are in the low 90 % for ontime in September. Atlanta gets low viz quite a bit, and with that comes massive delays for the World's Busiest Airport. It's a major pain in the ass, believe me. Kind of weird in the Summer when you get an EDC time at 0530! It sucks, but it's good for overblock! Additionally, once your 2-3 hours late due to WX, everything else gets backed up and slows. It's a tough environment, cuz ATL gets a lot of IROPS, even now in the slower season.

Trojan

 

[CFI2766]

How many FOs do you know that have second jobs? Think about that for a second. How much do FOs make? How easy would it be to replace the income from the airline with another low-paying job. My 2nd job in particular pays more per hour than my job as an FO and they'd be happy to give me more hours.

5 day trips? Nuh uh, I'm out and I wouldn't take much of a hit on the income. I stay here because I have hope that things will improve and I'll eventually leave my current employer for slightly greener pastures as a pilot which is my profession of choice... I enjoy flying, I do NOT enjoy flying for my current employer.

I agree with you, FOs don't make much money at ASA, or anywhere else, for that matter. However, you are making my point.

FOs are not at ASA, et al, because of the stellar working conditions, outstanding pay, or all star talent in the FA ranks. No, FOs slog though life as a regional FO for the hope of something better on the horizon. Not many FOs that have already invested the amount of effort to get to where they are will chuck it all because the trips are 5 days long as opposed to 4. The goal is to get somewhere else, be it a seat on the left side of the airplane, or, a seat on someone else's airplane.

Once you get to the left seat, the pay does start to become a factor in deciding to stay or go somewhere else, even if it is out of aviation.

Again, FWIW, as long as our trip and duty rigs remain in place, I doubt that 5 day trips are part of the long term future of ASA.

 

[777forever]

As a 2nd yr FO Im on pace to gross over 40k this year. Not easily replaceable in this economy. I had a 2nd job that supplemented my income(during spring when nobody was flying on reserve) that will have me well over 50k total for 09. 2nd jobs supplement a regional FO salary and can make your income from decent to very good, but to replace it? Very difficult in this economic environment IMO.

2nd, if we vote in PBS I bet the 5 day trip threats disappear quickly.

 

[SSDD]

For a while we had 5 day trips that paid over 28hrs. Three of those per month, not too bad.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

For a while we had 5 day trips that paid over 28hrs. Three of those per month, not too bad.

No thanks to 5 day trips....EVER!

 

[CFI2766]

2nd, if we vote in PBS I bet the 5 day trip threats disappear quickly.[/QUOTE]


If it were up to me, I'd work a prohibition on 5 day trips into the language of this PBS agreement. The agreement seems to be quite a bit larger than a simple LOA; now would be a perfect time to take 5 day trips out of the equation no matter what regulation comes down the line.

 

[Tarzan]

If it were up to me, I'd work a prohibition on 5 day trips into the language of this PBS agreement. The agreement seems to be quite a bit larger than a simple LOA; now would be a perfect time to take 5 day trips out of the equation no matter what regulation comes down the line.

We really have to take some time to think about that one. We also need to be very careful what we ask or wish for. We just may get something with some serious unintended consequences. If this 12 hour rule comes down, we may have painted ourselves into a corner with ANY prohibition on this sort of stuff. There may guys out there that will take something like this and we should not put in things that would make them waive the contract to make more.

Personally, I feel a better rule from the FAA would simply involve limiting a scheduled day to no longer than 12 hours of duty and allow up 16 for IROPS, etc. If the 12 hour duty day comes down, we may be hosed no matter which way we look at it.

 

[johnboy99]

This is a common argument against ASA in ATL. Numbers are in the low 90 % for ontime in September. Atlanta gets low viz quite a bit, and with that comes massive delays for the World's Busiest Airport. It's a major pain in the ass, believe me. Kind of weird in the Summer when you get an EDC time at 0530! It sucks, but it's good for overblock! Additionally, once your 2-3 hours late due to WX, everything else gets backed up and slows. It's a tough environment, cuz ATL gets a lot of IROPS, even now in the slower season.

Trojan

You make me laugh. You must have never been through any NYC airport. Most any day clear or not the three metro airports (EWR, LGA, JFK) have delays. ATL is like taking candy from a baby. ASA has always struggled. I commuted from CHA for 2 years through ATL on the ASA ATR. 25 minute flight and we would sit waiting for a gate for 30 minutes. The more things change the more they stay the same. Commuted through ATL last month for the first time in months. Guess what we waited for a gate then swithced concourses and waited some more. Then waited for a jetway driver.

PS. The ontime problems at ASA have very little to do with ATL weather and everything to do with the ASA operation. Come to NYC if you want to see real delays. When you are given holding instructions 700 miles from your destination then you can complain.

 

[at7driver]

It's not ASA, it's daddy D.. they have been in control of the ramp/gates for awhile now.

 

[USCtrojan]

You make me laugh. You must have never been through any NYC airport. Most any day clear or not the three metro airports (EWR, LGA, JFK) have delays. ATL is like taking candy from a baby. ASA has always struggled. I commuted from CHA for 2 years through ATL on the ASA ATR. 25 minute flight and we would sit waiting for a gate for 30 minutes. The more things change the more they stay the same. Commuted through ATL last month for the first time in months. Guess what we waited for a gate then swithced concourses and waited some more. Then waited for a jetway driver.

PS. The ontime problems at ASA have very little to do with ATL weather and everything to do with the ASA operation. Come to NYC if you want to see real delays. When you are given holding instructions 700 miles from your destination then you can complain.

Okay, you win. NY definitely sucks way worse than ATL. ASA hasn't operated an ATR in close to a year. I don't know if you've been reading the news, things have dramatically changed and continue to do so in the last year. Your situation is the exception not the norm. Delta runs everything on the ramp. ASA is pilots, mechanics, FA's and Mgmt. The rest is Delta.

Trojan

 

[79%N1]

You make me laugh. You must have never been through any NYC airport. Most any day clear or not the three metro airports (EWR, LGA, JFK) have delays. ATL is like taking candy from a baby. ASA has always struggled. I commuted from CHA for 2 years through ATL on the ASA ATR. 25 minute flight and we would sit waiting for a gate for 30 minutes. The more things change the more they stay the same. Commuted through ATL last month for the first time in months. Guess what we waited for a gate then swithced concourses and waited some more. Then waited for a jetway driver.

PS. The ontime problems at ASA have very little to do with ATL weather and everything to do with the ASA operation. Come to NYC if you want to see real delays. When you are given holding instructions 700 miles from your destination then you can complain.

Uuum......Bull Sh!t.

You have no idea what you are talking about. I, myself have operated many flights to both JFK and LGA. Whilst they both have their issues, Delta's inabilty to have both gates available and ramp staff are the crux of any ASA delay and waits in ATL. Next in line is incessant ground delays generated by ATC. This has improved greatly since the 5th runway was implemented, but still persists. Stick to what you know.

 

[johnboy99]

Uuum......Bull Sh!t.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Stick to what you know.

OK then. Your ramp operations and ticket agents were taken away from ASA because of piss poor custmer service. I once saw an ASA ramper pick up a customers cell phone right after he dropped it on the ramp and put in in his pocket, with people watching. Since Delta has taken over the ramp sucks just not as bad. Blame whomever you want but at the end of the day the FAA statistics say ATLANTIC SOUTHEAST AIRLINES. Seperate from DELTA.

If you have been to JFK so much you will know Delta's operations are even worse than ATL. Not uncommon to see a line of RJ's six or seven deep waiting on a gate. Heck, you will see several mainline planes waiting for a gate on a closed runway. It is the way Delta likes to treat its customers.

All I am saying is it could be worse, ATL on its worst day is better than any place in NYC. Sorry if I struck a nerve

 

[Stifler's Mom]

My hub airport is worse than yours!!!!!!

 

[USCtrojan]

OK then. Your ramp operations and ticket agents were taken away from ASA because of piss poor custmer service. I once saw an ASA ramper pick up a customers cell phone right after he dropped it on the ramp and put in in his pocket, with people watching. Since Delta has taken over the ramp sucks just not as bad. Blame whomever you want but at the end of the day the FAA statistics say ATLANTIC SOUTHEAST AIRLINES. Seperate from DELTA.

If you have been to JFK so much you will know Delta's operations are even worse than ATL. Not uncommon to see a line of RJ's six or seven deep waiting on a gate. Heck, you will see several mainline planes waiting for a gate on a closed runway. It is the way Delta likes to treat its customers.

All I am saying is it could be worse, ATL on its worst day is better than any place in NYC. Sorry if I struck a nerve

They are being taken from SkyWest as well in SLC. It's the new "Delta." It has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with the "Bottom Line." All outstations are in the process of tranferring to "Regional Elite Services" or whatever the popular name is for it these days. They are absolutely HORRIBLE in performance. It's the new Northwest, err, I mean Delta.

Trojan

 

[79%N1]

OK then. Your ramp operations and ticket agents were taken away from ASA because of piss poor custmer service. I once saw an ASA ramper pick up a customers cell phone right after he dropped it on the ramp and put in in his pocket, with people watching. Since Delta has taken over the ramp sucks just not as bad. Blame whomever you want but at the end of the day the FAA statistics say ATLANTIC SOUTHEAST AIRLINES. Seperate from DELTA.

If you have been to JFK so much you will know Delta's operations are even worse than ATL. Not uncommon to see a line of RJ's six or seven deep waiting on a gate. Heck, you will see several mainline planes waiting for a gate on a closed runway. It is the way Delta likes to treat its customers.

All I am saying is it could be worse, ATL on its worst day is better than any place in NYC. Sorry if I struck a nerve

And again, wrong Mr Genius......

The ramp is as bad if not worse now under Delta than ASA! Any ramper anywhere can be a bad seed/thief. I recall some baaaad dudes in Philly in my USAIR days. I recall some arrests in New York, LA and Chicago. Hmm. Not solely an ASA thing.

JFK DOES NOT have nearly 1000 DCI flights per day like ATL. Apples and oranges, my friend. Like I said, I've been there many times and there was never 100 planes on the ground in JFK at once like there are in ATL at any given push.

Part of the reason Delta took the ASA ramp and Gate people was the raiding and slashing of our travel benefits. Big D knew that many (most) of those employees would quit - because they could make the same money bagging groceries or flipping burgers - and they knew it would shut ATL down. So, they took them over to Delta, which actually improved their travel bennies.

Any thing else, since you are slandering the people of ASA and you don't have a clue??

 

[CFI2766]

We really have to take some time to think about that one. We also need to be very careful what we ask or wish for. We just may get something with some serious unintended consequences. If this 12 hour rule comes down, we may have painted ourselves into a corner with ANY prohibition on this sort of stuff. There may guys out there that will take something like this and we should not put in things that would make them waive the contract to make more.

Personally, I feel a better rule from the FAA would simply involve limiting a scheduled day to no longer than 12 hours of duty and allow up 16 for IROPS, etc. If the 12 hour duty day comes down, we may be hosed no matter which way we look at it.

Respectfully, I would disagree with up to 16 hours for IROPS. That is basically what we have now. Facing facts here, I am forced to fly my schedule when I am fatigued. There is nothing in our FOM that prevents me from receiving an occurence when I call in fatigued; ergo, I will ultimately be disciplined if I call in genuinely fatigued in accordance with the FOM.

I don't quite understand your first paragraph. I believe that you are saying that it would be better to not have a prohibition on 5 day trips so that folks could work 5 days, or more, in a row if they chose to do so. Fair enough, but I strongly disagree that 5 day trips should be the norm, or, something forced on a pilot's schedule if they really don't want them.

 

[Jack-O-Lantern]

You make me laugh. You must have never been through any NYC airport. Most any day clear or not the three metro airports (EWR, LGA, JFK) have delays. ATL is like taking candy from a baby. ASA has always struggled. I commuted from CHA for 2 years through ATL on the ASA ATR. 25 minute flight and we would sit waiting for a gate for 30 minutes. The more things change the more they stay the same. Commuted through ATL last month for the first time in months. Guess what we waited for a gate then swithced concourses and waited some more. Then waited for a jetway driver.

PS. The ontime problems at ASA have very little to do with ATL weather and everything to do with the ASA operation. Come to NYC if you want to see real delays. When you are given holding instructions 700 miles from your destination then you can complain.

Wow man, you are completely clueless! LMAO

 

[JoeMerchant]

Respectfully, I would disagree with up to 16 hours for IROPS. That is basically what we have now. Facing facts here, I am forced to fly my schedule when I am fatigued. There is nothing in our FOM that prevents me from receiving an occurence when I call in fatigued; ergo, I will ultimately be disciplined if I call in genuinely fatigued in accordance with the FOM.

I don't quite understand your first paragraph. I believe that you are saying that it would be better to not have a prohibition on 5 day trips so that folks could work 5 days, or more, in a row if they chose to do so. Fair enough, but I strongly disagree that 5 day trips should be the norm, or, something forced on a pilot's schedule if they really don't want them.

If we are talking safety ONLY....Then we should do away with Naps and back side of the clock flying altogether...Have you ever jumpseated on UPS or Fedex? They are tired folks.

If we are talking safety ONLY....Then we should limit late duty ins to about 8 hours of duty.

If we are talking safety ONLY...Then we should limit the duty day to 8 hours...

If we are talking safety ONLY...Then we should mandate that commuters get to domicile the day before duty in and should mandate that they get a hotel room or a crash pad....Something tells me the "safety argument" is compromised by pilots who are too cheap to get a good night sleep before duty in, or want more time at home instead of getting adequate sleep.

There is a cost factor and a risk factor and a QOL factor to this equation.....Going too far on the "safety/risk" factor will affect QOL...Affecting QOL will then in turn affect "safety/risk" as people spend more time away from home....Something to think about.

We have a unique job and unique schedules...it comes with the job...If you want "bankers hours"...this isn't the job for you...

Keep in mind, the Colgan crew had very adequate rest....That wasn't the problem.

 

[Tarzan]

Respectfully, I would disagree with up to 16 hours for IROPS. That is basically what we have now. Facing facts here, I am forced to fly my schedule when I am fatigued. There is nothing in our FOM that prevents me from receiving an occurence when I call in fatigued; ergo, I will ultimately be disciplined if I call in genuinely fatigued in accordance with the FOM.

I don't quite understand your first paragraph. I believe that you are saying that it would be better to not have a prohibition on 5 day trips so that folks could work 5 days, or more, in a row if they chose to do so. Fair enough, but I strongly disagree that 5 day trips should be the norm, or, something forced on a pilot's schedule if they really don't want them.

I understand your reluctance although the guys in CPO seem to take most of that in stride. They will ask a series of questions about why your are fatigued. If you had kids running up and down your hallway all night at the hotel, you'll likely be sent home with pay. However, if you stayed up late watching the football game, you'll probably get nicked for it. My concern is how badly that will hurt any company whenever you get into an IROPS scenario. If are limited to 12 scheduled hours with eight hours behind the door, if there is no exception for IROPS, we'll be severely handicapped dealing with anything that doesn't allow for perfect operations. Either way, this will likely be FAA mandated and we'll all have to live with it.

My first paragraph while fuzzy was interpreted correctly. We should try to stay away from absolutes but if this thing with the 12 hour drop dead rule passes we may stuck with crappy lines necessitating longer trips to make money. That is what I want to be careful of.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I understand your reluctance although the guys in CPO seem to take most of that in stride. They will ask a series of questions about why your are fatigued. If you had kids running up and down your hallway all night at the hotel, you'll likely be sent home with pay. However, if you stayed up late watching the football game, you'll probably get nicked for it. My concern is how badly that will hurt any company whenever you get into an IROPS scenario. If are limited to 12 scheduled hours with eight hours behind the door, if there is no exception for IROPS, we'll be severely handicapped dealing with anything that doesn't allow for perfect operations. Either way, this will likely be FAA mandated and we'll all have to live with it.

My first paragraph while fuzzy was interpreted correctly. We should try to stay away from absolutes but if this thing with the 12 hour drop dead rule passes we may stuck with crappy lines necessitating longer trips to make money. That is what I want to be careful of.

Well said....A 12 hour drop dead time would result in 9-10 hour duty days and 12 days off for everyone.

 

[blesko]

If we are talking safety ONLY...Then we should mandate that commuters get to domicile the day before duty in and should mandate that they get a hotel room or a crash pad.....

Apparently you've never commuted. That's the most assinine comment I've ever heard. You're part of MY pilot group??? If you want to preach "safety" tell the airline to stop closing domiciles!!!! People have a wife and kids, which you might not, at some point, you dont want to move a wife and kids from their current job and school. You wanna be an advocate, talk to commuters before you run your damn mouth