SKYW CRJ2 in ATL?

[JoeMerchant]

Apparently you've never commuted. That's the most assinine comment I've ever heard. You're part of MY pilot group??? If you want to preach "safety" tell the airline to stop closing domiciles!!!! People have a wife and kids, which you might not, at some point, you dont want to move a wife and kids from their current job and school. You wanna be an advocate, talk to commuters before you run your damn mouth

I am a commuter...I'm talking "SAFETY"...Isn't that what everyone is crying about now? I don't want the rules to change at all....Just warning people of the "law of unintended consequences".

Like a game of Chess....It's important to look a few moves ahead when looking at any proposal...I don't see good things coming from this.

Before you run your "damn mouth"....maybe you should consider the consequences of what is happening...I think we are on the same side...I suspect you want more time at home as a commuter?

 

[blesko]

I am a commuter...I'm talking "SAFETY"...Isn't that what everyone is crying about now? I don't want the rules to change at all....Just warning people of the "law of unintended consequences".

Like a game of Chess....It's important to look a few moves ahead when looking at any proposal...I don't see good things coming from this.

Before you run your "damn mouth"....maybe you should consider the consequences of what is happening...I think we are on the same side...I suspect you want more time at home as a commuter?

No, yambag, I don't want more time at home as a commuter. I want to ensure that we are not mandated to document a night in domicile before starting a trip either in a crashpad or hotel. That's probably not the way to warn people. You need to dumb it down. For us commuters, we need things to stay as they are. If you commute, you assume the risk and reward, go from there

 

[79%N1]

Apparently you've never commuted. That's the most assinine comment I've ever heard. You're part of MY pilot group??? If you want to preach "safety" tell the airline to stop closing domiciles!!!! People have a wife and kids, which you might not, at some point, you dont want to move a wife and kids from their current job and school. You wanna be an advocate, talk to commuters before you run your damn mouth

Geez!

I think the guy was just pointing out that there are hipocracies in the rule making, and watch what you wish for. I think he meant that obviously it is not all about safety - as some claim - or the rules would have to be different.

You were a bit harsh there.

 

[JoeMerchant]

No, yambag, I don't want more time at home as a commuter. I want to ensure that we are not mandated to document a night in domicile before starting a trip either in a crashpad or hotel. That's probably not the way to warn people. You need to dumb it down. For us commuters, we need things to stay as they are. If you commute, you assume the risk and reward, go from there

I'm on your side dude...You may want to tone it down a bit...

I was pointing out the hypocrisy on the "safety nazi" arguments for tighter rules...If you are going to argue safety, then you need to be consistent....Many aren't consistent in their arguments...

Why don't you want more time at home? Isn't that your point?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Geez!

I think the guy was just pointing out that there are hipocracies in the rule making, and watch what you wish for. I think he meant that obviously it is not all about safety - as some claim - or the rules would have to be different.

You were a bit harsh there.

I'm glad someone saw my point...:beer:

Sometimes I think people don't really understand what is said on this forum....

 

[blesko]

I'm glad someone saw my point...:beer:

Sometimes I think people don't really understand what is said on this forum....

Ok guys, fair enough. Point taken. Sarcasm is often lost across the boards. Unfortuately, everything we do is going to be smoke and mirrors for the general public, and as long as NYC-LAX tix are 149 r/t nobody cares

 

[CFI2766]

I'm on your side dude...You may want to tone it down a bit...

I was pointing out the hypocrisy on the "safety nazi" arguments for tighter rules...If you are going to argue safety, then you need to be consistent....Many aren't consistent in their arguments...

Why don't you want more time at home? Isn't that your point?

Whoooaaa there Joe...let me get this right: you are accusing anyone who doesn't agree with your priorities in scheduling of being a 'safety nazi'?


(Are the people who pushed for overwing emergency exit doors 'safety nazis'? Are the people who pushed for aircraft weather radar 'safety nazis'? How about the folks who pushed for auto-feathering props? Are they 'safety nazis' too? In fact, all of these things increase costs and decrease the airline's bottom line, thereby having 'unintended consequences'. By your logic, these technologies decrease airline profitability and therefore hurt your earnings potential and your quality of life. Would you lobby for the removal of these technologies from modern transport category aircraft? Really? Now maybe we should talk about being consistent...)

And then you introduce the concept of hypocrisy?

After making this statement:

I am a commuter...I'm talking "SAFETY"...Isn't that what everyone is crying about now? I don't want the rules to change at all....Just warning people of the "law of unintended consequences".

You simply can't get any more hypocritical than that. Let's face some facts here, Joe. You clearly don't give a d@mn about fatigue related safety issues. What you are concerned about is your schedule and your quality of life that you have attained by virtue of your seniority. You don't want the rules to change at all because you are, probably correctly, concerned that your quality of life or earnings will take a hit.

Frankly, TFB.

You have the schedule that you have because the company builds some lines that allow for adequate rest, these would be the lines that you are senior enough to hold, and builds other lines that do not allow for adequate rest, which the rest of us get. Stated another way, you enjoy the opportunity to hold a schedule that works for you at the cost of your coworkers inability to hold a schedule that realistically addresses fatigue issues.

Fatige is a serious threat to the safety of airline transportation. This has been shown multiple time well prior to the tragic Colgan accident. To attempt to stonewall meaningful progress on this clear and present threat to the safety of airline operations becasue of perceived decreases to your personal quality of life or earnings is shameful and incredibly selfish.

 

[Tarzan]

CFI2766, I believe there are plenty of people out there that toss the safety card to get them out of situation they don't care for. Take Dual Qual. Plenty of senior claim safety but in the bigger picture, it comes down to pay. They don't want to get stuck on a airplane they don't like for less pay for a one month if they got hosed on a bid.

So far as fatigue goes, we need to fix some of this stuff or tighten the scope but for true relief you'd be ready to leave the profession because of the lousy trips, the inability to have a schedule that gave you anytime meaningful time at home and less pay.

 

[CFI2766]

CFI2766, I believe there are plenty of people out there that toss the safety card to get them out of situation they don't care for. Take Dual Qual. Plenty of senior claim safety but in the bigger picture, it comes down to pay. They don't want to get stuck on a airplane they don't like for less pay for a one month if they got hosed on a bid.

So far as fatigue goes, we need to fix some of this stuff or tighten the scope but for true relief you'd be ready to leave the profession because of the lousy trips, the inability to have a schedule that gave you anytime meaningful time at home and less pay.

I'll give you that this life will not equal a M-F 9 to 5 existence. That's not what I'm after. I don't need 'banker' hours to do this.

What I do need is real changes from the current situation.

 

[spudskier]

So far as fatigue goes, we need to fix some of this stuff or tighten the scope but for true relief you'd be ready to leave the profession because of the lousy trips, the inability to have a schedule that gave you anytime meaningful time at home and less pay.

Which is why I'm on Monster.com, hotjobs.com and a few other job sites right now. After being bumped down in seniority for the third time in less than three years and now completely losing the ability to get friday, saturday OR (not AND) Sunday off and working 4-day trips on an 89-hour line (while we're apparently flying thousands of fewer hours!? BS), I'm done... out. Sure I'm lucky to have a job which is why I didn't just walk into a chief pilot's office and quit when I got my prelim October schedule. We have over 130 guys on the street, and the bottom half of the pilot group is working 80+ credit hour lines... BS again... As of last january, being about half-way up the list I was holding 3-day partial weekend trips.... now I'm working 4-day fri-mon trips from hell and barely holding onto a line by the time November rolls around. Thanks SH.

Again I'm lucky that my commute while stressful and long, is relatively easy and versatile in terms of available flights and ease of getting a jump seat. I'm in pretty good shape on almost every start of a trip even if I have to take the crack o' dawn flight into ATL to start a trip... since crew planning stacks trips in the opposite way they're supposed to (they typically back load the flights on a trip so there are more legs on the last day then the rest of the trip combined instead of front-loading like the contract asks them to do when able) I worry more about the drive home after waking up at 3:30am, working 5 legs then commuting home than I do about the 3-5 legs on day 1.

Being home and spending time with my wife, family and friends means more to me than anything in this world and this company's inability to realize they have human beings working for them is something I'm not equipped to deal with. What goes around, comes around and if BH was smart, he'd do a little more in-house cleaning.

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