Skybus wanabee's, think long and hard!

[Golden Falcon]

The more militant alpa??? against who??? Other pilots??

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Ya, the younger ones. ALPA wants the age 60 to change. Excellent job of representing the minority, with agendas. Bastards!

 

[HA25]

An a 2nd year widebody FO at Fedex makes more than a 10 yr Gemini CA. You really don't get it, do you!!! Pot meet kettle.

NO, you really don't get it.. you're NOT reading my posts. Gemini DOES not a) fly their own freight, and b) fly express packages. it's a whole different type of revenue structure. and c) we got this contract while in BK.. what do you expect? is Fedex or UPS in BK? Not even close!

If you read my post you would see how the comparison of SkyBus to South West is a apples to apples while Gemini to Fedex is Apples to Oranges.. YES, we are underpaid, and many of us (those that haven't yet voted with their feet) trying to get the pay up, but for now, with the pay scales as they are at the legacies and places like Jet Blue, where those companies are doing better than we are, it's hard to justify (to the current type of mediators at the NMB) that we deserve more for our 8 airplane company that just freshly emerged from a BK!

You don't get it.. you just want to hurl insults rather than address the topic of NEW airlines starting up that are brining the rest of us down.

Try to actually contribute to the debate rather than just exercise your fingers with ad hominem attacks.

What is your view on Skybus? You work for them, maybe?

 

[HA25]

BTW.. I'll be the first to say that Gemini's pilot membership fell for managements scare tactic that if we didn't accept this last contract (I wasn't there at that time) that we'd have to park DC-10's and furlough 1/2 the labor force... We were in a hard spot with the BK, and the BK Judge hanging over us, and the company making serious threats to park airplanes, so many panicked and voted yes when they should have held tough and voted no, but I wasn't there, and it's easy for anyone to say they should have voted no, when they're not there and their job isn't on the line. It only passed 49/51 and this alone was a message that "the next time" it will not go so easily if we're "making money".. Don't count GEM-ALPA out yet.. we've got 2009 to get ours. As the legacy carriers are planing on doing when they get their chance at the table post-BK.

This is a TOTALLY different scenario from a well capitalized, true start up that is going in with a business model from the get go (based on Ryan Air) intended to keep wages way down. VERY DIFFERENT.

 

[HA25]

This is the WORST excuse I have EVER heard! V70T5, just get your sh*t get out and shut the ***k up. Tool

Share with us then, what are you doing to try to raise the bar?

How do you know I'm not raising hell trying to get our pay up higher at GAC and getting "involved"

again.. what are you doing besides throwing out personal insults at me?

 

[FADEC]

NO, you really don't get it.. you're NOT reading my posts. Gemini DOES not a) fly their own freight, and b) fly express packages. it's a whole different type of revenue structure. and c) we got this contract while in BK.. what do you expect? is Fedex or UPS in BK? Not even close!

If you read my post you would see how the comparison of SkyBus to South West is a apples to apples while Gemini to Fedex is Apples to Oranges.. YES, we are underpaid, and many of us (those that haven't yet voted with their feet) trying to get the pay up, but for now, with the pay scales as they are at the legacies and places like Jet Blue, where those companies are doing better than we are, it's hard to justify (to the current type of mediators at the NMB) that we deserve more for our 8 airplane company that just freshly emerged from a BK!

You don't get it.. you just want to hurl insults rather than address the topic of NEW airlines starting up that are brining the rest of us down.

Try to actually contribute to the debate rather than just exercise your fingers with ad hominem attacks.

What is your view on Skybus? You work for them, maybe?

You may be a really nice guy but you're arguments are completely flawed. You berate guys who go fly for Skybus or Virgin America because their payrates are below industry standard. Yes they are below industry standard but so are your rates at Gemini. An MD 11 is the same size no matter what colour the tail is. You go on about Gemini getting their crappy contract when they were in bankruptcy but thats just your own way of justifying your own companies crappy contract. The fact that Gemini has 8 aircraft is completely irrelevent. Jetblue has 100 airbus compared to Southwests 400+ 737s so does that justify and explain the $50,000 difference in the left seat between both companies, I think not. I suspect that that you have very little real experience in this industry and if given the chance you would jump at a left seat slot at either Virgin America or Skybus. You talk a good story but I bet that your QOL at Gemini is not nearly as good as you would like us to believe. I have several friends at World and although they are also home based when they airline anywhere it is generally in a middle seat in economy. I really doubt that Gemini will spring for a business class seat especially since they have just come out of bankruptcy. In conclusion you admit that your pay is subpar and that you are trying to get it raised. Please enlighten us as to how you are going about this. Once again you are very vocal about other companies poor payscales but you are willing to work for a company with substantard payscales for the size of the equipment you fly. A first year reserve captain at Virgin America will make nearly as much as a 7 year reserve Gemini Captain and I bet the VX pilot has much better QOL. I'm sorry, I still contend that you are a hypocrite.

 

[HA25]

You may be a really nice guy but you're arguments are completely flawed. You berate guys who go fly for Skybus or Virgin America because their payrates are below industry standard. Yes they are below industry standard but so are your rates at Gemini. An MD 11 is the same size no matter what colour the tail is. You go on about Gemini getting their crappy contract when they were in bankruptcy but thats just your own way of justifying your own companies crappy contract. The fact that Gemini has 8 aircraft is completely irrelevent. Jetblue has 100 airbus compared to Southwests 400+ 737s so does that justify and explain the $50,000 difference in the left seat between both companies, I think not.

Thanks for addressing my points this time. I appreciate that.

I know it comes of as hypocritical, but would my comments have any more merit if I were the 1st year FO at ASA, or a 20 year CA at UPS? My arguments stand on their own. WE DON'T NEED ANY MORE LCC's COMPETING WITH LEGACY CARRIERS with low pay and high productivity work rules! PERIOD!

I suspect that that you have very little real experience in this industry and if given the chance you would jump at a left seat slot at either Virgin America or Skybus.

If 15 years, 6000 hours, and 4 type ratings with 3 employers and a furlough from American is little.. then guilty!

You talk a good story but I bet that your QOL at Gemini is not nearly as good as you would like us to believe. I have several friends at World and although they are also home based when they airline anywhere it is generally in a middle seat in economy.

World gets more money, but we do have a better work rules.. Work rules are part of the "pay equation" when a contract is made.

I really doubt that Gemini will spring for a business class seat especially since they have just come out of bankruptcy.

In my few months flying the line, I've travelled in Coach 3 times, and business class more than 10.. All flying into India and Africa (where 2/3 of our contracts are) require business class.. and the pilots are militant about changing that to ALL flying over 6 hours in the next contract.. stay tuned! This is a HUGE deal since a business class ticket costs $3000-4000 and a coach $1200 or so.

In conclusion you admit that your pay is subpar and that you are trying to get it raised. Please enlighten us as to how you are going about this.

part of it is coming on here on my Sunday morning and trying to sway people to see the light.. learn from our past experience and try to create some kind of unity within our profession, rather than a I'm in it for me attitude! I had the opportunity to take a few jobs before Gemini came along (I'd taken quite a lot of time off from flying and wasn't current for many companies), but I turned them down because they were with NON-UNION operations.. THAT IS SOMETHING, isnt' it??

Once again you are very vocal about other companies poor payscales but you are willing to work for a company with substantard payscales for the size of the equipment you fly. A first year reserve captain at Virgin America will make nearly as much as a 7 year reserve Gemini Captain and I bet the VX pilot has much better QOL. I'm sorry, I still contend that you are a hypocrite.

Gemini is not competing with SouthWest or Delta .. it competes with Centurion, Arrow and World.. VA is not the same thing for GOD's SAKE!

We don't get paid based on how heavy airplane is in this business! We get paid based on how much our airline makes $$$$ Learn this, and you'll understand why I'm NOT A HYPOCRITE!

Best regards

 

[FADEC]

Thanks for addressing my points this time. I appreciate that.

I know it comes of as hypocritical, but would my comments have any more merit if I were the 1st year FO at ASA, or a 20 year CA at UPS? My arguments stand on their own. WE DON'T NEED ANY MORE LCC's COMPETING WITH LEGACY CARRIERS with low pay and high productivity work rules! PERIOD!




If 15 years, 6000 hours, and 4 type ratings with 3 employers and a furlough from American is little.. then guilty!





World gets more money, but we do have a better work rules.. Work rules are part of the "pay equation" when a contract is made.



In my few months flying the line, I've travelled in Coach 3 times, and business class more than 10.. All flying into India and Africa (where 2/3 of our contracts are) require business class.. and the pilots are militant about changing that to ALL flying over 6 hours in the next contract.. stay tuned! This is a HUGE deal since a business class ticket costs $3000-4000 and a coach $1200 or so.



part of it is coming on here on my Sunday morning and trying to sway people to see the light.. learn from our past experience and try to create some kind of unity within our profession, rather than a I'm in it for me attitude! I had the opportunity to take a few jobs before Gemini came along (I'd taken quite a lot of time off from flying and wasn't current for many companies), but I turned them down because they were with NON-UNION operations.. THAT IS SOMETHING, isnt' it??



Gemini is not competing with SouthWest or Delta .. it competes with Centurion, Arrow and World.. VA is not the same thing for GOD's SAKE!

We don't get paid based on how heavy airplane is in this business! We get paid based on how much our airline makes $$$$ Learn this, and you'll understand why I'm NOT A HYPOCRITE!

Best regards

I agree that the last thing the industry needs right now is 2 more LCCs but it is a free market so what can you realistically do to stop them. Personally I think that Skybus won't last very long and Virgin America will have its hands full trying to deal with the existing carriers on already saturated transcon routes. How do you stop the spiral. I bet that after the USairways arbitration there will be many USairways ALPA pilots applying and excepting positions with Virgin America. Airline unions have become an industry joke.

 

[HA25]

Here we agree 100%..

Sorry if I come off like a hypocrite.. but in reality, who here isn't? We are all part of this problem to some degree.. and while my solution is to avoid non-union companies, some one else might be different.. and we're all running in different directions rather than in the same one.

We've got all the airlines, the ATA, the entire Republican party, and 1/2 the democratic party, and the entire consumers union against us... the only way to keep this profession a good one is unity, and the only way to do that is with unions (ALPA or otherwise).. or we're screwed!

 

[HA25]

btw.. I'm going to start a new LCC.. what do you think of our new interiors in my Avitar?