skybus is so cheap......

[climbhappy]

just between me, you and the fencepost, none of the guys at fedex, ups, southwest probably give a crap about skybus. they're making good money. it is never going to change we think. freight is strong. southwest is southwest

in fact the legacies have great prospects for growth in international travel.

want a good example of something done half ass and it was killed? Independence Air. that half baked idea with rjs ,with a CASM of 15 cents based on a plan assuming oil got no higher than 30/barrel, is the reason people go to grad school

 

[Capt1124]

Hmmm, the comments about GIA seemed to take the wind out of his sails. Working for AirTran- the original scab outfit- is one thing, but being a GIA customer is quite another.

 

[PCL_128]

Hmmm, the comments about GIA seemed to take the wind out of his sails.

Actually, I just had to go fly for a few a couple of days. Can't spend all of my time on here, you know.

Climbhappy and Pogue Mahone have just proven to be as ignorant and dense as FMS-Speed. They want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that what happens at Skybus doesn't affect the rest of the industry. That's a nice fantasy world, but reality doesn't quite work like that. In reality, Skybus is going to drag down this profession and all of us will suffer.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Being called ignorant by a fella who is more concerned with SkyBus than cabotage and MC Licensing? Coupled with a post total on FI equal to his total time?

I can live with that.

 

[PCL_128]

Being called ignorant by a fella who is more concerned with SkyBus than cabotage and MC Licensing? Coupled with a post total on FI equal to his total time?

I can live with that.

Never said that I'm more concerned with Skybus than cabotage. Both are very important issues that pilots need to concern themselves with. Both will destroy what's left of this profession.

 

[Capt1124]

Actually, I just had to go fly for a few a couple of days. Can't spend all of my time on here, you know.

Climbhappy and Pogue Mahone have just proven to be as ignorant and dense as FMS-Speed. They want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that what happens at Skybus doesn't affect the rest of the industry. That's a nice fantasy world, but reality doesn't quite work like that. In reality, Skybus is going to drag down this profession and all of us will suffer.

AirTran already dragged down the industry. It was founded by scabs, for scabs. At least the ValuJet pilots were paid to fly the planes, at however low a rate, even if they paid for sim training. GIA had "pilots" paying to sit in an airplane on revenue passenger service. If that's not dragging down the industry it's hard to say what is.

 

[HA25]

AirTran already dragged down the industry. It was founded by scabs, for scabs. At least the ValuJet pilots were paid to fly the planes, at however low a rate, even if they paid for sim training. GIA had "pilots" paying to sit in an airplane on revenue passenger service. If that's not dragging down the industry it's hard to say what is.

don't muddy the waters with facts.. PCL has it in his head that since he's riding on the coat tails of the Airtran pilots that dragged down DAL wages in ATL, and by extension everyone else.. it's ok, since he got there after their pay went up to industry normal (post 9/11 normal).

We'll see who gets the last laugh.. I think Skybus is going to be the next Southwest.

 

[climbhappy]

PCL: one last attempt at reason. another great example of supply and demand basic is EOS airlines.

there's a finite number of people who can afford and will pay 6000 for a ticket to london out of JFK. they have a different product/service even though they fly airplanes over ground and water. if they can't reach critical mass to cover their fixed costs and variable, they'll fail and go out of business. has nothing to do with some interconnnected labor.

you never offered any rebuttal as to why my head was in the sand.

with a broad brush you seem to suggest that all wages are interdependent. pure BS.

you still don't get the reality of this mature industry.
wages go down in mature industries. your failure to grasp a FACT taught in the classrooms of every graduate school in the country only says you don't understand. i'll be happy to supply any data and even refer you to the dean of business school at wake forest university if you wish.

dude, look at detroit and the auto industry. this has to be the bell ringer. everyone clap for PCL now

toyota , who is better, is getting ready to be the biggest us auto company, labor unions destroyed the us auto industry. GM was paying people 50,000 a year with benefits for 5 years to sit a home on voluntary retraining for five years

the panacea of organized labor in the airline industry was just shoved a giant helping of humble pie in the last five years.
there is no free lunch anymore or guys able to drop trips or get paid 100 in credit on reserve while not flying a leg. them days are gone. i'm for good pay for a good days work. i hate lazy bums and freeloaders. i wouldn't pay your lousy lazy butt to sit around either. i own a business, i know

 

[Shrek]

We'll see who gets the last laugh.. I think Skybus is going to be the next Southwest.

Ok - This conversation is over.........LMAOuke:

 

[PCL_128]

Climbhappy, I encourage you to read "Flying the Line, Volume 1." From page 227 (emphasis added):

"We worked for years and years to get the wages and working conditions of the avarage US pilot above that of the itinerant farm worker and then they failed the IQ test and started thinking they were republicans."

Your attitude is a perfect example of this problem. You glorify the so-called free market (something that doesn't even really exist in this industry) to the detriment of your own profession. Time to wake up and realize that you're part of a blue-collar labor group.

 

[A350]

PCL:

Why are you so high on your horse? You have been in this business all of a few years, paid for your first job, worked for a regional, what three years, and got on with AAI and you have the gall to come on here and question the motives and career decisions of another?

All this is BS. If Skybus signed an ALPA contract, you would be kissing their buns.

Facts are facts....even among ALPA carriers, there is a wide disparity in payrates. The Kalitta guys are flying a whale around for 100 bucks an hour, are they whores too?

A350

 

[HA25]

PCL:

Why are you so high on your horse? You have been in this business all of a few years, paid for your first job, worked for a regional, what three years, and got on with AAI and you have the gall to come on here and question the motives and career decisions of another?

All this is BS. If Skybus signed an ALPA contract, you would be kissing their buns.

Facts are facts....even among ALPA carriers, there is a wide disparity in payrates. The Kalitta guys are flying a whale around for 100 bucks an hour, are they whores too?

A350

He is a piece of work, and I'd love to debate him face to face. I've got 7 type ratings from MD11 down to CE500, flown domestic to every state in the union, and international on 4 continents, been a commuter ATR captain, been a Citation X captain, been there done that.... and been at 3 airlines in the past 10 years, while he's work for the same PFT commuter flying one type his entire career to and from the same cities back and forth, and some how he's better than me because he's working for a bottom feeder that's grown into a large airline with decent pay?

Give us a break.. He was probably in diapers when AAI (then ValueJet) was being formed by real Scabs that DID really hurt DAL in their ATL operations.

Peace out!

 

[climbhappy]

it is hard to debate someone with facts who won't address them.

i have a copy of flying the line. i can appreciate the need for organized labor. don't deny its existence
it has been shown to repeatedly fail the needs of those it purports to serve. how effective was it when the doors were closing for many or about to just a few short years ago. pension plans wiped out and wages cut in half because a hugely bloated inefficient method of getting actual work from the chief source of labor required this. now it is in balance.

i had no idea he was a PFTer. i don't think it is unamerican either. if there was demand for packaged rose scented horse$********************, we'd see the shelves full of it. ironically, there is a market for a new franchise called DOODY Calls, a maryland service for cleaning up pet poop in one's yard and house. the guy is going to be rich.

PCL, i think you need to retract the scumsucking whore comment. you can't justify here. you haven't proven your case.

you'll be shown skybus was either too low cost if that's possible in a few short years or that, flying for a carrier that does only domestic short haul is a dead end job. the legacies are finding out that int'l is where all the growth is. i guess you'll apsire to go next door to delta, otherwise airtran is just a place to build time.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL, i think you need to retract the scumsucking whore comment. you can't justify here. you haven't proven your case.

The case has already been proven by what we've seen happen all around us over the past 6 years. The 40-50% concessions and loss of work-rules was all a direct result of the carriers like JetBlue, AAI, and SWA that were undercutting the legacy pilot groups. This isn't theory. It's proven fact, because we've watched it happen in real time.

i guess you'll apsire to go next door to delta, otherwise airtran is just a place to build time.

Nope. My application to Delta hasn't been updated since early this year. No plans to go anywhere else. I think that AirTran will eventually end up merging with someone else and doing just fine.