skybus is so cheap......

[PCL_128]

and those RJ captains you're talking about making 85K.. how many years do they have at their companies? I left ASA in 2000, and today they're still paying THE SAME DAMN THING!!! ********************! with no future!

I was lazy when I was a 5-year RJ Captain my last year at Pinnacle, and I was on track to make 75k. We had guys at the same seniority making 90k by working a little extra because they lived in base. Keep in mind that that's at one of the worst paying regionals with an 8 year-old contract that's been amendable for over 3 years. The guys at ExpressJet are topping 100k after a few years in the left seat.

 

[Flybet3]

Skybus is soooooo cheap....

 

[HA25]

I was lazy when I was a 5-year RJ Captain my last year at Pinnacle, and I was on track to make 75k. We had guys at the same seniority making 90k by working a little extra because they lived in base. Keep in mind that that's at one of the worst paying regionals with an 8 year-old contract that's been amendable for over 3 years. The guys at ExpressJet are topping 100k after a few years in the left seat.

explain to me how...

by my calc. you'd have to fly 110 hours at Pinnacle (in how many days I have no idea).. to get the same paycheck as a 1st year CA at Skybus working 15 days and flying less than 80. The Skybus guy flying 110 hours would make over $105K.. but he would have to wkr 110.. he credits 100 due to work rules and only works 15 days. How can you compare the two?

I'm sorry.. but while I don't want to be seen as defending the current pay at skybus, it's a start up folks! STARTUP.. they're not making any money right now.. GIVE IT TIME. THEN render judgement.

 

[Flybet3]

I haven't interviewed yet. An old friend I've not spoken to in a while and I reconnected recently and he works there and loves it so he gave me the FACTS which were sorely missing here and now I'm a critic turned possible advocate. I'm keeping an open mind as quality of life is king for me and being junior forever at some long established airline is not my idea of fun.

As for the callsign. I've long since sold the Volvo and gone to Mercedes and BMW. So I got sick of the almost weekly pm's asking how I like my Volvo!

Btw. If F/A is a license then I would like to see some links to where one gets this license and under what part of the FARs its under.

I hate to agree with this guy, and even though i am no fan of Skybus or Gojets (especially) unless you work there you really dont know whats going on. Lets face it guys, there's isn't a single company here (except Fedex, UPS and SWA) were people wont complain about something. A few weeks ago everyone was glorifying Skywest and look at the regional forum now!

 

[HA25]

Then take the danged job and stop trying to convince the rest of us to ignore common sense about how that airline is dragging down the profession. And if you take it, I hope you're on the street in 6 months begging Gemini to take you back.

dude, I've since left Gemini.. they're a dead end, and not worth my time. I've got nothing going on now except occasional and steady Citation X contract work and a corporate job that I'm waiting on a class date for.. which frankly I'm not excited about. I'm testing the waters for Skybus because of the upstart nature of the operation... I just think keeping an open mind is a good idea and if you'd just read my points about other start ups, and put that in context you'd see I'm right.

I do have self worth, which is why I left Gemini.. flying an MD-11 around the world for $35K with 17 days gone at a shot wasn't for me.. Upgrade is 6-7 years and the turn over is almost all in the FO ranks.. with age 65 around the corner and their fleet actually shrinking, I saw no reason to delay the inevitable and left on my own accord and under good terms with the company.

 

[Flybet3]

Whatever people decide to do is their business! As much as I disagree, b!tch and moan, curse, humiliate, disrespect, etc., its not gonna change the fact that this is how things are gonna be. I think its pathetic, but to convince others is impossible, and thats been proven over and over again. So good luck to all. I'm now on the corporate side of things and I'm never looking the other way, HOPEFULLY!!!!!:beer:

Beside the fact that you have a HOT A$$$$ you are soooo right. It's like those people that bi**h and moan about politicians! HA! Since the dawn of time politicians have been a bunch of douch**ags with their own agenda and care very little of the people. This is the world we live in people!

 

[PCL_128]

explain to me how...

The payrate is only $6/hr difference. I was making just over $62/hr at PCL on 5th year pay, and the Skybus guys are making only $68 to fly an Airbus. Yeah, the PCL guy making 90k is working more than 15 days a month, but he also isn't undercutting the rest of the industry and throwing away his dignity and self-respect.

 

[PCL_128]

I do have self worth, which is why I left Gemini.

Good. Then keep that self-worth by flying corporate until AMR calls you back or another good airline gig becomes available to you. No need to throw away years of hard work and destroy your reputation just for the chance of a few stock options that might be worth something some day. I really can't believe that you would consider this a viable option. Your posts in the past always indicated that you understood the importance of upholding the profession. I guess you've just decided to screw everyone else as long as you might get yours.

 

[vixin]

FMS-Speed vbmenu_register("postmenu_1349292", true);
Ya like my new LCC??





"as for Skybus.. I hate Skybus, what more is there to say, but I admit the video was nice, and bifocals don't bother me one bit!"

Nice post you made a few months ago. Who is the pot and kettle now. What a piece of work.

 

[HA25]

Your posts in the past always indicated that you understood the importance of upholding the profession. I guess you've just decided to screw everyone else as long as you might get yours.

No, I just don't drink koolaid from anyone.. not management nor unions.. Sure I'm a bit dissallusioned, and have given strong thought of getting out of flying and doing something else with my talents and education.. Have you read the latest ALPA magazine and the article on the Gen X pilots?? That's me..

Skybus, contrary to all the BS on this and other forums isn't undercutting anyone..

Their routes are unique and complimentary to other airlines..

Their business model is totally new in the US, and may or may not work, time will tell.. but if it does, I can tell you that 5000 stock options can be worth 100's of thousands.. I'm from a finance background, and I also keep up with history. Learn the story of the pioneering WN pilots of the 70's and early 80's and then come back and rejoin this debate.

 

[HA25]

FMS-Speed vbmenu_register("postmenu_1349292", true);
Ya like my new LCC??





"as for Skybus.. I hate Skybus, what more is there to say, but I admit the video was nice, and bifocals don't bother me one bit!"

Nice post you made a few months ago. Who is the pot and kettle now. What a piece of work.

breaking news.. I've already said I've had a change of mind, and that I've been wrong.. that only lends my view more credibility. I can admit when I've been wrong, can you?

Tell me... do you have the balls to tell those senior WN captains you rode on the coat tails off that they were scabs in the early days of WN when they were undercutting everyone? Common now..

 

[PCL_128]

No, I'm done with this debate. You've obviously made up your mind that you're willing to undercut everyone to get ahead yourself, so this debate is pointless. Enjoy your "career" at Skybus.

 

[vixin]

Tell me... do you have the balls to tell those senior WN captains you rode on the coat tails off that they were scabs in the early days of WN when they were undercutting everyone? Common now..

I never rode any coat tails. My work and dedication got me where I am at today. I didnt aim low like yourself. It is funny how Stybus was scum now they are the best since sliced bread.

And yes I have had those balls you mentioned. I have asked several Caps at SWA why they did what they did out of curiosity. I have also told them I couldnt do that. Most here are great and can handle an adult conversation. I would rather do something else in life then make fast food manager wages flying for an airline. Plus there are plenty of others hiring. I think your biggest desire is to be a CA of a shiney new airplane. Then people will admire just how great you are.

 

[HA25]

Vixin... I don't know if your a he or a she (betting the latter), but you can debate till you're blue in the face.. THE FACTS ARE, those old timers at WN are why you are where you are.. that outfit would never have gotten off the ground, and you would be working for some place worse. If your ego is so big as to believe that where one works in this industry has anything to do with how good a pilot he is rather than pure luck... without the benefit of hindsight, you're a lost cause then.

Would you EVER have believed me, if in 1999 I came to you and said that the day would come when America West would launch a hostile bid on Delta? Or buy USAir?

Do you think that the guy who turned down Delta Airlines in 1979 to go to work for Easter because it was "the better outfit" doesn't kick himself in the ass and cry himself to bed every night?

Do you think that those WN captains that are in your own definition scabs, most of whom are millionaires give a rats ass what you think?

I'm not saying Skybus will be another Southwest.. but there is NO return on low risk. My neighbor down the street is a new hire at WN, he's doing ok.. but he'll never be where I can be if Skybus' business model takes off like Southwest did in the 80's..

 

[CA1900]

... I can tell you that 5000 stock options can be worth 100's of thousands.....

Yeah, ask any CommutAir pilot how his ESOP stock value is doing...

 

[vixin]

Vixin... I don't know if your a he or a she (betting the latter), but you can debate till you're blue in the face.. THE FACTS ARE, those old timers at WN are why you are where you are.. that outfit would never have gotten off the ground, and you would be working for some place worse. I dont agree with this. I am here because I wanted to be here and applied. If SWA wasnt around or one of the leaders I would have applied elsewhere. I would not apply to companies like Stybus. If your ego is so big as to believe that where one works in this industry has anything to do with how good a pilot he is rather than pure luck... I dont really understand where this came from. I just fly airplanes for a living, I am not Chuck Yeager never claimed to be. I am just a down to earth line pilot.

Would you EVER have believed me, if in 1999 I came to you and said that the day would come when America West would launch a hostile bid on Delta? Or buy USAir? Nope I wouldnt times change.

Do you think that the guy who turned down Delta Airlines in 1979 to go to work for Easter because it was "the better outfit" doesn't kick himself in the ass and cry himself to bed every night? I hope he doesnt cry himself to bed. He should seek some counseling then. I have flown with guys that have been at 4/5 airlines. They lived threw it. Just like I would if something happened to SWA.

Do you think that those WN captains that are in your own definition scabs, most of whom are millionaires give a rats ass what you think? Nope I dont think they care. But I never called them scabs.

I'm not saying Skybus will be another Southwest.. but there is NO return on low risk. My neighbor down the street is a new hire at WN, he's doing ok.. but he'll never be where I can be if Skybus' business model takes off like Southwest did in the 80's..

Heck nobody nows where that may be. SWA may not exist in 20 years. Stybus may not last until next year. We will have to wait and see. Hes doing ok. Thats funny. This year he will make 50-75 depending on if he works or not. Next year he will be 100+. With the profit sharing, 401k, better benefits etc. You may have stock options that maybe worth something sometime. I hear they ask you to sign a little piece of paper to get those options. Some still havent received their options. Time will tell. But I dont understand why one would work for such low sorry wages and working conditions. Stability in this business is priceless. As you should know being ex AMR.

 

[HA25]

Yeah, ask any CommutAir pilot how his ESOP stock value is doing...

and ESOP and stock options are about as similar as a Beach 1900 and an MD11..

The fact is, nobody at Skybus is making a big pay day like over at the majors.. they're all betting on an IPO and from the CEO on down, it's all about building share holder value and selling it on the market.

stay tuned..

 

[HA25]

I hear they ask you to sign a little piece of paper to get those options. Some still havent received their options.

I can tell you this much, and I haven't heard anything solid to lead me to believe it to be true, but if they do that.. I will not be receiving any options. I have yet to be invited to an interview.. and once I am (if I am), I will report on my findings positive or negative.

nite..

 

[HA25]

Skybus is so cheap that they just closed this sweat heart deal..

http://www.sun-herald.com/Newsstory.cfm?pubdate=101907&story=tp8ch4.htm&folder=NewsArchive2

 

[PCL_128]

Skybus is so cheap that they just closed this sweat heart deal..

http://www.sun-herald.com/Newsstory.cfm?pubdate=101907&story=tp8ch4.htm&folder=NewsArchive2

And yet their pilots are still a bunch of scumsucking whores.

 

[climbhappy]

PCL_128 : why the attitude ? i went there yesterday and met 'em. i have the scoop. just wanted to get the details.
5000 shares as options when the company goes public in 09 or 10 could net each captain over 400,000. amoritize it over five years and that is the pilot compensation. they would be at the top of the industry for pay per #of seats.

fortune 500 companies and many others compensate their management that way. after all, aren't we aircraft managers?

greensboro is their base so i could be home every night, 15 days off , making 90 grand with 90 in pay credit.

By the way, the industry climbed in the $hitter sven years ago. 30 billion in losses later. pay was cut everywhere. you have the unmitigated gaul to call a guy a whore in 2007 after the industry has hit the bottom, oh seven years ago.

when regionals are advertising 300/1 at the jobs fair something tells me there is demand for pilots. you can choose.

by the way airtran had nobody, repeat nobody in the line when the doors opened in DC. we all went to the majors line.

airtran is just another skybus with an eight year history. let's compare apples to apples in eight years.

if more pilots undertood the art of making money, then you could appreciate the fact wall street has signed up on this plan to the tune of 160000000 for new planes.

problem is most pilots can recite the AIM, but don't know a put from a call.

when i read stupidity like "lowering the bar" and scumsucking whore, i can see you can't reason nor explain why airtran would be any better.

with out n backs from your hometown, making close to sixfigures with 15 days off and time for my side job, and options to boot, I'm laughing at your ignorance. have fun commuting and fighting for a contract you'll never get. have fun bitching all the way to phoenix ya puke. Nope, i take that back...i'd be acting like you! i don't work for them...yet

 

[CA1900]

and ESOP and stock options are about as similar as a Beach 1900 and an MD11..

If a company doesn't go public, they're equally worthless. That's my point.


Enjoy your deadheads crammed into a 156-seat A319. It'll make Southwest seem like First Class.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL_128 : why the attitude ? i went there yesterday and met 'em. i have the scoop....blah, blah, frickin' blah

Keep trying to justify it all you want, but you know as well as the rest of us do that taking a job at Skybus and flying an Airbus in the left seat for $68/hr is stabbing the rest of us in the back.

have fun commuting and fighting for a contract you'll never get. have fun bitching all the way to phoenix ya puke.

I live in ATL, hardly ever get called on reserve, and never fly to PHX. Thanks for playing, though.

 

[Ty Webb]

All hail "Climbhappy", the new Village Idiot!

with out n backs from your hometown, making close to sixfigures with 15 days off and time for my side job,

Anyone else see the irony here?

Ha-ha . . . I think our village has a new Idiot.

 

[HA25]

PCL, why is it that when I worked for Gemini, flying an MD-11 internationally for $35K first year, with $45K 2nd year pay, and our captains (all of whom are 7+ year) earning $90,000 to $100,000 on straight time with 17+ days on, did you have more respect for me than flying a small bus for around the same money?

Gemini paid a 65 hour guarantee and most CA's were at the $125 range.. with max at $144... trouble was, you spend 17+ days on the road and rarely saw close to 60.. now if you picked up OT and stayed out longer (not my idea of fun) you got paid that over guarantee.. This was an ALPA carrier flying the same type as Fedex and less than 1/2.. I left because I saw no end to that situation.. the companies leaders were not interested in building the airline, but rather milking it for what they can before those MD-11 leases ended.

Is it because Gemini is not competition to Airtran, but Skybus is? I'm not sure why you're so hell bent on Skybus and not for example Spirit, or VX?

 

[HA25]

the latest APC data shows FO's 1st year is between $37-40K.. I'm not sure many airlines can boast that.. heck CAL is about $25K and no medical for 6 months...

Objectively, skybus doesn't seem that bad, even if you've got to pay $2 for a bottle of H2O.. heck, just bring your own!

I also think it's good that they don't make you sign a contract, nor do they make you put yourself up in the hotel while in school..

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc/skybus.html

notice how it says to disregard the above pay calc, as the hourly rate has NOTHING to do with the actual rate per hour.. it's based on trip credit.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL, why is it that when I worked for Gemini, flying an MD-11 internationally for $35K first year, with $45K 2nd year pay, and our captains (all of whom are 7+ year) earning $90,000 to $100,000 on straight time with 17+ days on, did you have more respect for me than flying a small bus for around the same money?

Gemini paid a 65 hour guarantee and most CA's were at the $125 range.. with max at $144... trouble was, you spend 17+ days on the road and rarely saw close to 60.. now if you picked up OT and stayed out longer (not my idea of fun) you got paid that over guarantee.. This was an ALPA carrier flying the same type as Fedex and less than 1/2.. I left because I saw no end to that situation.. the companies leaders were not interested in building the airline, but rather milking it for what they can before those MD-11 leases ended.

You have to compare apples to apples. Gemini was not in the same business as FedEx and UPS. Gemini was an on-demand supplemental cargo operator. So, when you compare Gemini scales and work-rules to other similar carriers, then you find that Gemini is pretty much right with the pack, if not in the upper end. Skybus is in the exact same business as AirTran, Delta, SWA, etc... Therefore, pilots working there are undercutting the rest of us in this industry.

I'm not sure why you're so hell bent on Skybus and not for example Spirit, or VX?

Spirit is paying market wages, albeit at the lower end of the average, but they are currently engaged in contract negotations to bring that up. Not to mention the fact that they are a union carrier and Skybus is not. As for VX, I have the same bone to pick with them, but they aren't nearly as bad as Skybus. Junior Captains at VX are making $95/hr compares to $68/hr at Skybus. Still not market wages, but not nearly as bad.

 

[PCL_128]

the latest APC data shows FO's 1st year is between $37-40K.. I'm not sure many airlines can boast that.

I'm on track to clear about $50k first year at AAI. Some guys who work harder are able to pull off $55k, but I'm much too lazy for that. $40k is nothing to be proud of.

Objectively, skybus doesn't seem that bad, even if you've got to pay $2 for a bottle of H2O.. heck, just bring your own!

With comments like this, I'm starting to wonder if this is just flamebait. This is fu&^ing pathetic.

 

[HA25]

did you read my APC.com link? YOU CANT JUST GO BY HOURLY RATE... it's like Southwest on the pay scheme. Over..

 

[PCL_128]

did you read my APC.com link? YOU CANT JUST GO BY HOURLY RATE... it's like Southwest on the pay scheme. Over..

When the management "teams" at the other carriers come looking for concessions in the next downturn and ask a bankruptcy judge to impose a contract on us, they will be looking at the hourly rate. Besides, I'm not just talking about the hourly rate. The gross compensation is pathetic also. Just $80-90k for a Captain is absurd.