Sky is Falling at USAirways!!

[SRMairlines]

Lear70:

HIT IT RIGHT ON THE NOSE!

We also need Nat'l ALPA to get their heads out of their a$$ and support the regional pilots. If Duane Woerthless would have not signed the MESA & MESABA TA's and gave them more support in a positive direction, than those MEC's might have had better bargaining power. Granted both unions achieved improvements to their contracts, they would have faired better with more support. ALPA should set a minimum standard for the regional pilots so we can achieve what LEAR70 said...

I was not one of those brainswashed college grads. My first 121 job (right out of und with 900hrs) was with a company "PDT" that had a very good contract and great pay rates for both props and jets (had no jets though but had the jet rate formula). But.........., unfortunately CH 11 changed things and paycuts were forced upon us. Now I find myself at a company that needs to improve on their contract and we need support from everyone to do it.

Most people out of college aren't familiar with the politics of the industry and will accept low pay to have their dreams jobs. Everyone has to start somewhere and it is the job of the pilots that are currently employed to make the job better for those coming in.

 

[jetops]

Jetops, Give it up trying to reason with these Baffoons. Nothing will make them happy. You can give them all 20 days off per month and pay them top $$$ and they will still find someting to complain about. I have my gripes at JBLU but all in all life is pretty **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good.

you are so right in that statement

 

[Lear70]

If you believe the above statement, please don't move or strain yourself. Call 911 and explain to the dispatcher that your almost brain dead and could they please send the EMT's quickly. On the other hand if you write something such as the above statement, please stay perfectly still and don't call anyone.

First, I do believe the above, primarily because at PCL I personally know just about every status rep and have no doubt that their intentions are strictly honorable and in line with the highest standards of professional conduct as a pilot for what they believe is in our common interests for the greater good.

Secondly, you'll notice I said absolutely nothing about ALPA. Obviously you're a supporter of the RJDC and while SOME of the RJDC arguments are very true, the underlying themes that scope should be elliminated and that the regionals should drop ALPA completely is LUDICROUS, unless of course you really WANT to work for a regional the rest of your life...

Third, if you'd like to debate the points of the RJDC, start a different thread, don't hijack this one.

SRMAirlines, keep plugging away, you're exactly right that it's up to us to educate our coworkers and then all of us fight together to make things better, not only for ourselves, but for those who come behind us.

By the way Jetops, nice reply, and thanks for admitting that you have NO intelligent counter-arguments for ANY of my points by posting with a complete lack of anything even resembling a cohesive argument or counter-point.

 

[jetops]

Lear70

Vote themselves out of a job? Hardly. Go educate yourself on the effect that regional airline pilot pay has on CASM and how it affects overall profitability at a regional airline and let me know when you’re ready to debate it.

People don't buy plane ticket based on airline pilot's ,
it based on price .............................

why pay more to fly on american,northworst,overpriced us airways when you can fly on jetblue or southwest . Fa make the the passager experience good or bad ..................



Major Airline Median Annual Earnings: $128,520 - 23% of pilot population
Low-Cost Carrier Median Annual Earnings: $96,260 - 9% of pilot population
Regional Airline Median Annual Earnings: $46,660 - 14% of pilot population

by the number you posted median income even higher than i posted .......................



Incidentally, the average Regional Pilot starting salary is $18,120 per year.

well hate to brake it to you have to start some where.






p.s. I’ll trade you ?you can come make my $55k per year left seat CRJ paycheck flying 92 hours per month and I’ll go fly left seat at Blu making $90k+ at guarantee? Yes, I know, two different types of operations and companies, but things aren’t all rosy over here, there are valid reasons for the griping, b*tching, and general gnashing of teeth?



you sound like unhappy and no matter how much money you make you will not be happy . ..................

 

[Lear70]

Re: Lear70

People don't buy plane ticket based on airline pilot's ,
it based on price .............................

why pay more to fly on american,northworst,overpriced us airways when you can fly on jetblue or southwest . Fa make the the passager experience good or bad ..................

Again, educate yourself on the effect of a regional airline pilot's salary on CASM (that's Cost per Available Seat Mile). You will find out that our salary has very little effect on what an airline ticket costs a passenger. Then again, how about just getting an education?

Major Airline Median Annual Earnings: $128,520 - 23% of pilot population
Low-Cost Carrier Median Annual Earnings: $96,260 - 9% of pilot population
Regional Airline Median Annual Earnings: $46,660 - 14% of pilot population

by the number you posted median income even higher than i posted .......................

No, you posted an average median income for ALL pilots of $109,580. I pointed out that since we were discussing REGIONAL airline pilot's salaries, that it would be appropriate to clarify that the only people who make those six-figure salaries are MAJOR airline pilots or senior LCC pilots. If you don't understand that, then again I suggest you go back to school.

Incidentally, the average Regional Pilot starting salary is $18,120 per year.

well hate to brake it to you have to start some where.

Yes, we do. I suggest we start somewhere between half again that number ($24,000) to double that number ($36,000). That would be comparable to other learned professionals in a skilled workplace.

you sound like unhappy and no matter how much money you make you will not be happy . ..................

You're not getting the point. I wasn't posting about being unhappy, I was correcting your obvious misunderstandings about the aviation industry.

Happiness in this job isn't all about money, but about overall Quality Of Life, which is days off, trip and duty limitations, and corporate culture. I have a great time with my crews and coworkers, but I also know that the quality of time I spend at home with my family is just as important, and two of the larger determiners of home QOL are income and time off, things that are not plentiful at the regional level and need to be rectified. Other than that, I love my career.

I "sound like unhappy"? Jesus man, please get an education before you post any more on these message boards. A good command of the English language is the basis for getting ahead anywhere, including aviation.

 

[J32driver]

Lear70,

Thank you for handing Jetops his A S S!

Jetops... find another forum to troll. I thought this board was set up to be a hiring/interview/gouge board for PILOTS!!!

 

[SRMairlines]

I can tell Lear70 has a great knowledge of this industry and it people like him that are trying to improve our jobs further.

The time of the major airlines are coming to an end and the regionals and LCC are booming. Consistenly for the last 30 years the mean salary of an airline pilot has gone down... (adjusted for inflation) This trend will continue if we don't stand up and fight for improvement.

Lear70: you on RR in MSP?

 

[jetops]

Re: Lear70

Re: Lear70
QUOTE]Originally posted by lear70

Again, educate yourself on the effect of a regional airline pilot's salary on CASM (that's Cost per Available Seat Mile). You will find out that our salary has very little effect on what an airline ticket costs a passenger. Then again, how about just getting an education?
[/QUOTE]


Well I can tell you this if regional pilot’s were geting $100,000 a year the casm for that airline would be closer to 7-11 cents . Due to lower pay scales at the regional there casm is lower so there able to keep there operating cost down .

Here the my post

In 2002, median annual earnings of airline pilots, copilots, and flight engineers were $109,580. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $55,800. Over 25 percent earned more than $145,000.
Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics

No, you posted an average median income for ALL pilots of $109,580. I pointed out that since we were discussing REGIONAL airline pilot's salaries, that it would be appropriate to clarify that the only people who make those six-figure salaries are MAJOR airline pilots or senior LCC pilots. If you don't understand that, then again I suggest you go back to school.

Where in that statement does it say all pilots
Better look at the facts and figures before type next time .
If you looking for other category of pilots you can find it at www.bls.gov

airline pilots

QUOTE]Originally posted by lear70


Major Airline Median Annual Earnings: $128,520 - 23% of pilot population
Low-Cost Carrier Median Annual Earnings: $96,260 - 9% of pilot population
Regional Airline Median Annual Earnings: $46,660 - 14% of pilot population

[/QUOTE]


Do you understand what the word median means??????

Here an example for you

Whenever you find yourself writing the words, "the average worker" this or "the average household" that, you don't want to use the mean to describe those situations. You want a statistic that tells you something about the worker or the household in the middle. That's the median.

Again, this statistic is easy to determine because the median literally is the value in the middle. Just line up the values in your set of data, from largest to smallest. The one in the dead-center is your median.

For the World Wide Widget Co., here are the worker's salaries:

$100,000
$50,000
$50,000
$15,000
$15,000
$15,000
$15,000
$9,000
$9,000
That's 9 employees. So the one halfway down the list, the fifth value, is $15,000. That's the median. (If halfway lies between two numbers, split 'em.)

Comparing the mean to the median for a set of data can give you an idea how widely the values in your dataset are spread apart. In this case, there's a somewhat substantial gap between the CEO at WWW Co. and the rank and file. (Of course, in the real world, a set of just nine numbers won't be enough to tell you very much about anything. But we're using a small dataset here to help keep these concepts clear.)

Here's another illustration of this: Ten people are riding on a bus in Redmond, Washington. The mean income of those riders is $50,000 a year. The median income of those riders is also $50,000 a year.

Joe Blow gets off the bus. Bill Gates gets on.

The median income of those riders remains $50,000 a year. But the mean income is now somewhere in the neighborhood of $50 million or so. A source now could say that the average income of those bus riders is 50 million bucks. But those other nine riders didn't become millionaires just because Bill Gates got on their bus. A reporter, who writes that the "average rider" on that bus earns $50,000 a year, using the median, provides a far more accurate picture of those bus riders' place in the economy.

If your making $46,660 dollars a year your making good money for what you do flying the Small planes

You're not getting the point. I wasn't posting about being unhappy, I was correcting your obvious misunderstandings about the aviation industry.

Happiness in this job isn't all about money, but about overall Quality Of Life, which is days off, trip and duty limitations, and corporate culture. I have a great time with my crews and coworkers, but I also know that the quality of time I spend at home with my family is just as important, and two of the larger determiners of home QOL are income and time off, things that are not plentiful at the regional level and need to be rectified. Other than that, I love my career.

I "sound like unhappy"? Jesus man, please get an education before you post any more on these message boards. A good command of the English language is the basis for getting ahead anywhere, including aviation.

Gee is that all that you have left is to personally insult me . Must be running of this to say because you personal insults are more frequent now

 

[J32driver]

"Must be running of this to say because you personal insults are more frequent now"

Jetops... I was almost convinced someone else typed this for you. Well... convinced right up until I read the last sentence anyways.

 

[Lear70]

Re: Re: Lear70

Well I can tell you this if regional pilot’s were geting $100,000 a year the casm for that airline would be closer to 7-11 cents . Due to lower pay scales at the regional there casm is lower so there able to keep there operating cost down .

Wrong... Where are you getting your information about CASM from? A regional pilot's salary could double and it would only add half a cent to the CASM, this is hard data compiled by several attorneys involved in the negotiations of Mesaba, XJet, and PCL just to name a few - data that the airlines have not denied even for a moment. Where's your supporting documentation of such a drastic increase in CASM as a result of an increase of regional pilot salaries of 30%?

Where in that statement does it say all pilots
Better look at the facts and figures before type next time .
If you looking for other category of pilots you can find it at www.bls.gov

airline pilots

Thank you for providing a link to exactly the information that again shows your lack of understanding of the subject matter. To be specific, the link you were referring to is as follows:

http://www.bls.gov/oes/2003/may/oes_53Tr.htm

The ONLY two career listings involving pilots of any type are:

Code 53-2011 Airline Pilots, Copilots, and Flight Engineers
Code 53-2012 Commercial Pilots

Again, in plain English, that means the census bureau has compiled data for ALL airline pilots in those figures it has posted online. It has not separated the difference between Major, LCC, or Regional pilot. THEREFORE, since you used that data, you automatically retained its all-encompassing scope of ALL airline pilots.

Then you used that data to state that we were all going to be making six figures flying heavy metal soon.

so when your making $109,580 dollars a year in the near future you were fairly paid .

Do you understand what the word median means??????

Yes I do. Do YOU? After your pathetic attempts to use the English language, do you REALLY expect us to believe that YOU wrote that very detailed explanation of the word "median"?

IS THERE ANYONE HERE WHO BELIEVES JETOPS WROTE THAT?? *snicker*

Incidentally, the vast majority of the people who read this board have a college education, most of which REQUIRED some type of statistics course which, by its very definition, is the study of medians and averages. Thanks for the explanation anyway.

If your making $46,660 dollars a year your making good money for what you do flying the Small planes

Absolutely... if you're a year 1-5 First Officer.

If you're a Captain - not a chance. Let's put it to the test:

IS THERE ANYONE HERE WHO ACTUALLY FLIES AS A REGIONAL PILOT WHO BELIEVES THAT MAKING $46,660 A YEAR AS AN RJ CAPTAIN IS "GOOD MONEY"?? ANYONE? BUELLER...? BUELLER...?

Didn't think so.

Gee is that all that you have left is to personally insult me . Must be running of this to say because you personal insults are more frequent now

Nope, I'm not the one who copied and pasted or had a friend write part of a post in an attempt to formulate a cohesive and intelligent response... I just find it amusing how truly vapid you continue proving yourself to be...

SRMAirlines: I WAS supposed to be sitting RR in MSP, but after the storms that have blown through here and DTW in the last 24 hours, I've been flying my tail off! Now if I were only doing this on Extension or JM pay or breaking guarantee... What are you up to?

 

[SRMairlines]

Lear70: HS to ALO on Tue. Came from FSD this morning. Keep firing away. It's good to see a realistic view of things from time to time.