Single versus Dual Pilot Operations in a King Air

[RaginMav]

Horsesh!t !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for your last little paragraph, don't talk to me about denial, I lost a close friend last night. If anyone here actually has "real" experience with single pilot Ops please add the thread. It's not about defending anything, it's about capability and personal limitations. If pilots are unwilling to fly single pilot Ops, then they have no business doing it, like yourself.

Sorry to hear about your friend, it's been quite a while since I've had a tragedy like that affect me.

You are certainly right, pilots with reservations about single pilot ops should steer clear - for their own peace of mind, at least!

Don't know any better, more like, you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

That must be it! Now it's all so clear.

One more thing,
next time your on the side of the road bleeding by a car wreck and BK-117 lands lands to save your butt, are going to ask for a second pilot? No, you will be kissing the butt of the only pilot onbaord.
How many EMS accidents have taken place in recent years, many. Are any of these ending up in courtrooms?
It's a dangerous profession sometimes, no second pilot can change that

You're right again, you can never remove all the risk from flying, or from drinking water from your kitchen sink, for that matter! But that's not what this thread is about.

 

[RaginMav]

...and IM the one in denial :laugh:

Well let's get one thing straight, I'm not of the litigious type!!! I'm just sayin'!

so...the fact that the FAA certified the King Air series as single pilot carries no weight, does it? the fact that these guys go to FlightSafety twice a year for single pilot checkrides means just as little, nor does the fact that they must successfully complete a single pilot line check with an FAA representative...i know, i know...means squat

my point is only thus...just because you see a single pilot climb out of a king air on that hot summer day dont assume crap like this...

I didn't assume anything, thank you. As far as training twice a year at FSI goes... do they really? There's more than one way to get a .297, and a most operators aren't doing it the FSI (read: expensive) way! Kudos to those who train to the max, I only wish everyone did!

On the topic of the single pilot certification, etc... in civil law, there is an important difference between regulatory requirements and industry best practices. The really crappy part is that the court will probably not see 'best practices' the same way you and I do. We know how important training is, no doubt! But the picture painted in court would focus on the empty right front seat, unfortunately. And of course, perception is everything.

you think panties are in a wad now...just wait til i bring up the Premier operators out there buzzing around FL410 at .80 mach and ...GASP...single pilot

Well this at least a step in the right direction!!! Let's examine a few things:

• Modern, single pilot jets are miles ahead of, say, twin Cessnas in simplicity and ease of operation.
• As it requires a type, we know the pilot is receiving quality training! Kinda back to the hypothetical 350 discussed earlier.
• When below 10k feet, what's the difference between this and a KA? 30 knots? Assuming a trained, professional PIC, this is likely a better situation than those aircraft this thread has focused on.

 

[TheInsider]

The FAA only state the minimum, not the maximum. Just because an aircraft is certified for single-pilot ops does not mean it can't be flown dual pilot. The same goes for ATP certification: Minimum 1500 hrs., or the MEL-Minimum equipment list. There's no such thing as a maximum equipment list.

 

[SERPICO]

Sorry to hear about your friend, it's been quite a while since I've had a tragedy like that affect me.

You are certainly right, pilots with reservations about single pilot ops should steer clear - for their own peace of mind, at least!



That must be it! Now it's all so clear.



You're right again, you can never remove all the risk from flying, or from drinking water from your kitchen sink, for that matter! But that's not what this thread is about.

Go screw yourself a$$hole.

 

[ultrarunner]

One more thing,
next time your on the side of the road bleeding by a car wreck and BK-117 lands lands to save your butt, are going to ask for a second pilot? No, you will be kissing the butt of the only pilot onbaord.

HA! Not this kid. I'll take my chances in a wagon!

 

[mike1mc]

the debate comes down to "what is required". The FAA can REQUIRE and operator to have a SIC regardless of what the plane is certified for. It will be added to the opspecs. Guess what, now you have a qualified SIC logging the time.
.

For Part 135 Passenger-carrying ops, the FAA does require an SIC unless the operator and PIC are authorized to have autopilot in lieu of SIC (Ops Spec A015?)

 

[chuckthepilot]

Thanks to all for the input. As a soon to be displaced FO it was a good read. Best of luck to all out there.

 

[jergar999]

Thanks to all for the input. As a soon to be displaced FO it was a good read. Best of luck to all out there.

You suck!

 

[chuckthepilot]

You suck!

I've been wanting to banter back but am losing the will to even talk shi!t. Buyouts sure are fun eh? I think the base will do fine under SPIFR given time, but it'll be a wild few weeks for sure.

 

[flyer7rm]

scary

I would be scared of riding with Jeremy HA HA. Hey man whats up. I am still taking ******************** in the right seat at SkyWest. Should came on over.

 

[jergar999]

I would be scared of riding with Jeremy HA HA. Hey man whats up. I am still taking ******************** in the right seat at SkyWest. Should came on over.

I might need to soon. We flew all night the other night and a medic from Crawford was wondering how you were doing.

 

[jergar999]

Just to update the thread, effective 11/13 we will be going from a two to single pilot operation. I started this thread and was doing some research in the hope of talking the company out of making these changes, but budget prevailed. Thanks to everyone and congratulations to chuckthepilot on your new job. I will miss flying with you.

 

[fam62c]

Just to update the thread, effective 11/13 we will be going from a two to single pilot operation. I started this thread and was doing some research in the hope of talking the company out of making these changes, but budget prevailed. Thanks to everyone and congratulations to chuckthepilot on your new job. I will miss flying with you.

That's unfortunate, I hate to see another pilot out of work. I'm curious, what percent of the total annual operating budget for the aircraft did the second pilot represent? I mean if you include the payment on the aircraft (if there is one) maintenance, fuel, insurance, hanger, supplies etc. how much is a second pilot?

Good luck to you, I'm not necessarily saying that an experienced pilot can't operate a King-Air single-pilot with an acceptable level of saftey; my point is simply that if you become incapacitated during flight the rest of the redundancy on the airplane is of no value unless someone else knows how to fly. I would guess that in this economy there will be plenty of companies that make the same decision for the same reason. I would also be on the lookout for another job because if the cost of the second pilot is a deal breaker for the operator they must be on the very edge of being able to afford the aircraft.

 

[brokeflyer]

what the company will probly do is stick some 500 hour wonder in the right seat and pay him $75 a day.....in fact, you could get some 500 hour gold seal CFI and he would probly PAY the company to sit over there....

 

[jergar999]

One of the former full time first officers found a different job in town, and will make himself available if we need/want a second pilot due to weather concerns, flight times, or late night stuff. The company has agreed on a contract rate and will make sure he stays current. It's not the greatest, but it could be worse. The pay is actually decent for right seat contract stuff, and he is an experienced pilot that doesn't need a babysitter.