Single versus Dual Pilot Operations in a King Air

[SERPICO]

121 training is no doubt meant to be good. The public should expect this and I agree with that point. I would argue that flying in say the Northeast or any high traffic area with horrible winters is demanding for even high timers. All the 121 sim time time that a newbie gets cannot ultimatley prepare you. This can be very tough on capt's. Exposure is something that will just happen, and usually when you are not ready, but it has to happen at some stage. Low timers can be trained very well in many cases.
A request for a second pilot should of course happen without question.
I have not looked at the statistics but I think that the single pilot accidents in sophisticated aircraft should be be distinguished by Private/Comm/ATP. However on that note I do know some people who hold ATP's who really should not, but There is a big issue of denial that comes with many pilots, especially when they fly high-tech machines, a huge trap! I think this is very concerning when talking about pilots who can afford to buy and fly stuff which is way beyond their capabilities (no offence to owners who are sensible). FAA minimums allow it and it can be done. But of course we hold the final responsiblity for decision to go or not to go, no matter how qualified we are and that is the bottom line with pilots.
I am sure management would love single pilot 121, I doubt it would ever be passed by those who work in the big white place down in D.C. though.
This is certainly an interesting topic. Thanks for all the interesting views.

 

[ultrarunner]

The 1.5x factor is for turboprop a/c's but even worse: the fatality rate for single-pilot certified Citations flown single-pilot is 7 times that of single-pilot certified Citations flown dual pilot.

That may be true, but look at the common-sense factor (or lack thereof) of those that crashed citations single pilot. That stupid chick up in Maine last winter comes to mind!

 

[Sim Sweat]

What you guys are missing here is the fact that most (not all) 135 outfits treat the word "safety" as an annoyance, rather than a guideline. Single-pilot ops in King Airs and like aircraft are common because of one reason: economics. I've done tons of SP ops for several different operators ... in my opinion it is generally safe with an experienced and capable driver, but there are certainly times when overload is sitting on your shoulder ... and that's not safe. The wiser clients will pay extra for a second pilot, but far too often they are duped into thinking that second white shirt is actually qualified in the aircraft when it's generally just a pulse. Meanwhile the company may not even be paying the second pilot, but they sure are billing the client.

And as for Citation accidents with single-pilot ops, I would hazard a guess that a lot of those are the typical owner/op, represented by the woman mentioned above. That was a suicide/murder at best.

 

[ultrarunner]

And as for Citation accidents with single-pilot ops, I would hazard a guess that a lot of those are the typical owner/op, represented by the woman mentioned above. That was a suicide/murder at best.

That's the truth!

 

[moonlight]

All good points.

I would argue that a very low time pilot in the right seat of a king air reduces safety rather than increases it. I felt like I was having to fly for both of us and flight instruct at the same time. It would have been much safer if I was the only one up there.

I agree. At a former job, we would train single pilot in 200's, but the insurance sonsa...company required that we have a 2 pilot crew. The running joke was that the SIC checkout was: 1) Gear handle up; 2) Gear handle down; 3) Clap your hands so I know you're not touching anything.

I have about 800 hours now of single pilot ops in King Airs, and I think the key to the whole situation is understanding and accepting the fact that there is an increased risk flying single pilot. My personal mins are higher, my decision making is more conservative, and if there is ever a question, be it wx, duty day, whatever, I have the option (and use it regularly) to hire a SIC. Also, when I'm back in Wichita being abused by the S&M specialists at FlightSafety, the training regimen is purposely designed to be as difficult as possible. They seem to enjoy it an inordinate amount...

 

[Bringupthebird]

An operator who commits to a bonified two-pilot operation probably is willing to commit to other safety initiatives such as strict limitations on duty time, field length, wx restrictions, etc. and those who don't probably never will.

I think the lawsuit filed by the victim's families against an operator who offered a single-pilot option would be a slam-dunk. It could reasonably be implied that the single-pilot option was equally safe as the two-pilot option, which of course it isn't.

 

[moonlight]

A lawsuit?!? Is flying a King Air SP illegal? The aircraft is certified single-pilot, is it not? Seems to me that a LOT of inane blanket statements are being made, including the post above. To play devil's advocate, a B200 a couple of years ago had a cracked windshield, and thanks to the incorrect response of the *2* pilot crew, an abnormal situation quickly become an all out emergency. CRM is CRM, whether there are two pilots or one pilot in the cockpit. I've seen and heard of plenty of situations where a good pilot did a dumb thing against his/her better judgment, because they were talked into, or out of what they knew to be right by the other guy.

To extrapolate a small flight dept's decision to utilize single pilot ops into rampant FAR violation and a careless disregard for safety is a leap in logic I can't and won't make.

What I will admit, is that by making the decision to fly single pilot requires that flight dept. to be much more conservative.

For example, my preflights take place the day before the flight, and last a couple of hours. We don't do the last minute, hurry up, "How soon can we leave?" types of flights. If the weather is down, we wait. If it looks like it's going to be a long day, we (the boss and I) figure out how to break it up over two. I have a good enough relationship with the owner that when I see a red flag, I not only feel comfortable speaking up, he would be pissed if I didn't. I know that I'm lucky in that respect, and I'm not so naive as to think that there aren't operators that brow beat pilots. I'm only trying to make the point that, while there is a certain amount of risk associated with flying single pilot, it can be managed.

If you want a risk free career...join the FAA.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Single pilot 135 operations are legally allowed. My point is that should one be involved in a fatal accident, a lawyer would have a field day with the operator who felt he could hold out single pilot operations as being equally safe as two. A jury would likely find that operator negligent if he didn't offer the highest standard of safety first with a single pilot option only at the customer's request and with full disclosure of the risks associated with their decision. It could be argued that a reasonable person could not be expected to evaluate the risks of single pilot operation without them being disclosed.

 

[SERPICO]

Single pilot 135 operations are legally allowed. My point is that should one be involved in a fatal accident, a lawyer would have a field day with the operator who felt he could hold out single pilot operations as being equally safe as two. A jury would likely find that operator negligent if he didn't offer the highest standard of safety first with a single pilot option only at the customer's request and with full disclosure of the risks associated with their decision. It could be argued that a reasonable person could not be expected to evaluate the risks of single pilot operation without them being disclosed.

How could this be proved? There are risks with both options. This angle has probably been covered by some greedy little lawyer.
Slam dunk, I doubt it.

 

[kingairyahoo]

lol...cracks me up to see how the ex-121 guys are apalled at the very idea of flying single pilot (to the point of deeming the owner/operator as "cheap") when there are those of us who have done nothing BUT single pilot for our entire careers