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Shuttle America 170 and CLE

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hence why i asked the question. From the picture it appeared in decent shape all things considered. I never said the plane was flyable i merely thought it was repairable. thanks for clarifying.
 
looking at the shots from the air on CNN, the RH engine nacelle looks a bit twisted. that bird will be in a hangar for a while. i'm glad everyone's OK, but it seems strange that with what was known about the WX, the GS OTS and the runway length/conditions, why was the approach or landing ever attepted?
 
taildragerpilot said:
looking at the shots from the air on CNN, the RH engine nacelle looks a bit twisted. that bird will be in a hangar for a while. i'm glad everyone's OK, but it seems strange that with what was known about the WX, the GS OTS and the runway length/conditions, why was the approach or landing ever attepted?
Click to expand...

Was the GS OTS when they shot the approach, or did they take out the antenna after/as they went off the runway?

-Blucher
 
Blucher said:
Was the GS OTS when they shot the approach, or did they take out the antenna after/as they went off the runway?

-Blucher
Click to expand...

glide wasnt OTS, it was operational but due to snow it was not giving the advertised glidepath. This notam was in effect:

!FDC 7/3107 (KCLE A0785/07) CLE FI/T CLEVELAND-HOPKINS INTL, CLEVELAND, OH. ILS RWY 28, AMDT 22.... DUE TO EFFECTS OF SNOW ON THE GLIDE SLOPE MINIMUMS TEMPORARILY RAISED TO LOCALIZER ONLY FOR ALL CATEGORY AIRCRAFT. GLIDE SLOPE REMAINS IN SERVICE. HOWEVER, ANGLE MAY BE DIFFERENT THAN PUBLISHED.

they were however clearing people for the 'ils 28 no glideslope' approach. This was on sat, the day before this incident, so they didnt cause it. They did however take out the localizer array.
 
...it seems strange that with what was known about the WX, the GS OTS and the runway length/conditions, why was the approach or landing ever attepted?
Click to expand...

What exactly was known about the WX...it was snowing, and a plane landed a few minutes earlier and said the runway was good...I guess no one knows why they tried the approach. I heard they topped off the tanks and went look around for the worst weather to shoot an approach in.
 
snowflake "for guidance" is a wonderful thing. just add 50' to the threshold elevation and it follows the GS quite well.
 
Glad every one got out alive with only minor bumps and scrapes.

Could have been any of us, given the conditions.

Factors: low vis; low ceiling; contaminated Rwy--last minute rwy change--to a shorter rwy; bumped up E170 wind numbers; bumped up stall protection ice numbers; vertical nav mins/changes.

Tough approach and landing.

Learn.

T8
 
According to FlightAware they landed @ 1955Z. The METAR at that time was

[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCLE 181956Z 30016KT 1/4SM +SN BKN006 BKN015 OVC041 M07/M11 A3001 RMK AO2 P0000 $[/FONT]

[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCLE 181951Z 29018KT 1/4SM +SN SCT011 BKN018 OVC043 M07/M11 A3001 RMK AO2 SNB36 CIG 012 NE SLP173 P0000 T10721111 $[/FONT]

Landing on the shortest runway in practically whiteout conditions? Interesting choice considering I did not see any NOTAMS for any other, longer runways closed.

KickIt
 
The weather doesn't look bad from that metar. 1/4 mile reported in snow is actually 1/2 mile vis. Winds are right down the runway. The stronger the better. Completely safe and doable. Luckily noone was hurt. I wouldn't point my fingers at the weather.
 
You guys are really something. That weather was horrible, plain and simple. Just cause the metar says it was 1/4 with +SN doesn't mean that at that moment it wasn't more like 1/16 or 1000 RVR. The local TV weather guy rolled the doppler radar back to that exact moment when they landed. The heaviest part of that snow squall was directly over the airport at that time.

I have 9 winters worth of flying in and out of CLE landing on that very runway under similar conditions, so I know what they were looking at. Couple those weather condtions with having to execute a descent from an MDA and some gusty winds with higher than normal approach speeds and it could have been any one of us, period.

The conditions change minute by minute with those stupid lake effect showers, this one was off of Lake Huron, none the less, Erie is frozen over.

BTW 24R was most likely closed for plowing at the time, that's why they switch to 28 arrivals so they can keep from having to use 24L and cut the arrival rate in half.

Anything can look "do-able" on paper.
 
Last edited:
MJG said:
You guys are really something. That weather was horrible, plain and simple. Just cause the metar says it was 1/4 with +SN doesn't mean that at that moment it wasn't more like 1/16 or 1000 RVR. The local TV weather guy rolled the doppler radar back to that exact moment when they landed. The heaviest part of that snow squall was directly over the airport at that time.

I have 9 winters worth of flying in and out of CLE landing on that very runway under similar conditions, so I know what they were looking at. Couple those weather condtions with having to execute a descent from an MDA and some gusty winds with higher than normal approach speeds and it could have been any one of us, period.

The conditions change minute by minute with those stupid lake effect showers, this one was off of Lake Huron, none the less, Erie is frozen over.

BTW 24R was most likely closed for plowing at the time, that's why they switch to 28 arrivals so they can keep from having to use 24L and cut the arrival rate in half.

Anything can look "do-able" on paper.
Click to expand...

Hmm ok...factors

Based on what you just said..hmmmm yes!! I choose the shortest runway!! :rolleyes:
 
Here's IMAGE what that squall looked like as it blew over my place. What do you think the vis is in this pic, about a quarter mile IMO..
 
Thats 2 they effed up over there, one into IAD because some little turd overrode the gear handle. And now we get SJS jr. the wonder pilot saying hey it ain't that bad let shoot it,we got FMS and the chinese glide slope.
 
Rouge Warrior said:
Thats 2 they effed up over there, one into IAD because some little turd overrode the gear handle. And now we get SJS jr. the wonder pilot saying hey it ain't that bad let shoot it,we got FMS and the chinese glide slope.
Click to expand...

what happened in IAD? I remember something about a 170 with gear trouble landing there.
 
Rouge Warrior said:
Thats 2 they effed up over there, one into IAD because some little turd overrode the gear handle. And now we get SJS jr. the wonder pilot saying hey it ain't that bad let shoot it,we got FMS and the chinese glide slope.
Click to expand...


you are clueless, these 2 had more experience than whats in 90 percent of todays regional cockpits.

every single person reading this has landed in conditions, when viewed in retrospect, could be viewed as dangerous.

so please stop this nonsense and thank god it wasnt you, cause you could be next, no matter how smart you think you are.
 
Jack Mehoff said:
what happened in IAD? I remember something about a 170 with gear trouble landing there.
Click to expand...

The gear wouldn't come up when they left IAH (I think), so they pressed the override button - gear came up. When they reached IAD, the nose gear wouldn't come down! THEN Embraer came out with a memo stating "don't use the red button".
Bottom line, crew was exonerated.

EXCO chairman says that there is more to this (CLE) than is being told. Union lawyers and safety committee peeps all over it! I don't know the crew, looked it the pairings, but not sure which flight was involved - one has a CKA flying the flight, the others I don't know.
 
c-wood75 said:
you are clueless, these 2 had more experience than whats in 90 percent of todays regional cockpits.

every single person reading this has landed in conditions, when viewed in retrospect, could be viewed as dangerous.

so please stop this nonsense and thank god it wasnt you, cause you could be next, no matter how smart you think you are.
Click to expand...

Whats that 2000 hrs combined?
 
Glad to hear no one got hurt. Could have been anyone one of us. Continental landed before them I believe and reported braking action fair-good.

If I heard that while being right behind them on the approach, that would make me continue(also other factors). I wish this upon no one :(

I wonder what the "spin" is as was mentioned
 

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